Car shaking, rough idle... helpppp

adrean8j · 03-16-2011, 12:29 AM

^^^Pretty sure he already replace HPFP, sparks, etc, etc...that leaves O2 sensors...and it would have been the first thing I said to replace or check....

moveswiftly · 03-16-2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrean8j

^^^Pretty sure he already replace HPFP, sparks, etc, etc...that leaves O2 sensors...and it would have been the first thing I said to replace or check....

Yeah.. the only thing that hasn't been replaced is 4 coil packs, 2 Injectors and O2 Sensors. since many cylinders are misfiring and you're getting Lamda sensors it should be O2 sensors...

bmore135 · 03-16-2011, 05:42 PM

heres another question, if it is the o2 sensors is there a way i can tell which ones i need to replace? since we have 2 in each downpipe will have to replace all four or just the ones that are supposed to be after the cats? is there a way i can tell which downpipe the problem is specific to?

adrean8j · 03-16-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore135

heres another question, if it is the o2 sensors is there a way i can tell which ones i need to replace? since we have 2 in each downpipe will have to replace all four or just the ones that are supposed to be after the cats? is there a way i can tell which downpipe the problem is specific to?

TBH I would just replace the two on the DP's.....just to be safe.

bmore135 · 03-16-2011, 05:58 PM

are you saying just the rear 2 sensors? i would assume that the front wouldnt be messed up due to no matter what exhaust you have on your car even if its stock they always get fumes. from what im seeing the sensors are about 220 on average but some places offer the rear for around 120.

adrean8j · 03-16-2011, 06:08 PM

The sensors attached to your DP's(downpipes)....only one place that could be!

bmore135 · 03-19-2011, 12:30 PM

ok so heres a new update, i enabled the auto clear codes on the JB4 and the car ran smooth as can be for 2 days, but it started doing the same old things again. i think this would further prove/solidify that this is an O2 sensor issue... what do you guys think?

adrean8j · 03-19-2011, 12:34 PM

We already told you to change them! LOL....when you get the money/have the time of course!

bmore135 · 03-19-2011, 08:48 PM

im gonna order them this week and replace next weekend. thanks for the help everyone, ill update next weekend

My135 · 03-19-2011, 09:01 PM

If you have Jb4, you should be able to apply the DP fix which will by pass the bad SO2 sensors, will it?

bmore135 · 03-20-2011, 06:15 PM

you can turn on the auto code delete which makes the problem go away shortly but not completely.

bmore135 · 03-30-2011, 01:49 PM

So I had my buddy who is a vw mechanic check out the car this weekend. He changed my o2 sensors out and that made no changes with my problem, also checked out the fuel pump and said the hpfp is doin its job and creating correct amount of pressure. He said that he thinks it is the fuel injectors and agrees with what 1 person said on here about if 3 or more injectors are replaced they should all be replaced. Gonna pull the injectors this weekend and write down part numbers to see if bmw really did the work they said they did. Ill prob be rolling back to bmw with the tech service bulletin that says all injectors should be replaced... so has no one else had this problem at all???

adrean8j · 03-30-2011, 02:11 PM

You are still having the shaking and rough idle??? After replacing the O2 sensors? And yes all the injectors should be replaced if more than 2-3 get replaced.

bmore135 · 03-30-2011, 08:36 PM

Yessir still shudders from the misfiring every now and then, which causes rough idling when stopped. We are really digging into the fuel injectors this weekend...

Boosted1 · 04-01-2011, 04:21 AM

I had a very similar problem 2 weeks ago...threwing those exact same codes and misfires everywhere... I tought the O2 sensors past away ...

To my surprise, when taking it to the shop to check the sensor, the UR dp's had a hole in the bung that was leaking. We welded it ant everything went back to normal. Fuel deprivation might be caused by a exhaust leak I think.

You should def check for all of the exhaust, even the smallest leak.

bmore135 · 04-01-2011, 08:03 PM

ill take a look at that man, thanks for the input!

Viper_iii · 07-19-2011, 06:36 PM

Definitely watching this Thread, now...

have a 2010 128i that has these symptoms as well... shakes when starts sometimes...

Was revving then shaking randomly usually when Idle at a stop for a long time... like traffic... then would throw check engine...

Dealership replaced VVT

Seemed to help... now again today it shudders when starting... thows service engine light, but oil change and service was done 1-2 weeks ago while other junk was going on.

Seems they've now replaced the HPFP (Fuel Pump) and still getting codes that won't go away... and they aren't sure what they are... not sensors it seems...

Sounds like injectors from what I'm reading above...

After reading these though I'm glad that I leased the wife this thing... its been in and out of the shop but its still fun to drive...

Just don't like it depriving me of MY Car while its in the shop and they don't have loaners and she takes mine! (2011 Rover - which you'd think would be in the shop more than hers!)

- Changed to NRFs after the original GoodYears went south after 15k... bubbles and balding. (added a can of fix a flat to the trunk - Tires = $450 installed)

- Rattles and bangs from the trunk and even a Booiinnggg sound comes occasionally
(Dealership scratches head on those - No Codes/Lights so there is nothing wrong sir).

Wanting to see if BMore135 finds exhaust or injector issues...

Kamal · 07-19-2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper_iii

Definitely watching this Thread, now...

have a 2010 128i that has these symptoms as well... shakes when starts sometimes...

Was revving then shaking randomly usually when Idle at a stop for a long time... like traffic... then would throw check engine...

Dealership replaced VVT

Seemed to help... now again today it shudders when starting... thows service engine light, but oil change and service was done 1-2 weeks ago while other junk was going on.

Seems they've now replaced the HPFP (Fuel Pump) and still getting codes that won't go away... and they aren't sure what they are... not sensors it seems...

Sounds like injectors from what I'm reading above...

After reading these though I'm glad that I leased the wife this thing... its been in and out of the shop but its still fun to drive...

Just don't like it depriving me of MY Car while its in the shop and they don't have loaners and she takes mine! (2011 Rover - which you'd think would be in the shop more than hers!)

- Changed to NRFs after the original GoodYears went south after 15k... bubbles and balding. (added a can of fix a flat to the trunk - Tires = $450 installed)

- Rattles and bangs from the trunk and even a Booiinnggg sound comes occasionally
(Dealership scratches head on those - No Codes/Lights so there is nothing wrong sir).

Wanting to see if BMore135 finds exhaust or injector issues...

You've got a 128i with an N52 engine vs. a 135i with an N54 engine... two completely different beasts we're talking about here. The same fixes won't apply to you... The fueling, injectors, etc. are all completely different. You should let your dealership fix your car, and if you're interested in getting feedback from others it's probably best to head to the subforum for the 128i...

Cameronmac93 · 07-19-2011, 07:28 PM

I completely agree that it is most likely an exhaust leak around your downpipes. I had the same symptoms and even with autoclear on I would still feel the vibrations. I got an exhaust leak check and found multiple leaks from the downpipes. Got the exhaust refitted and tightened and no more issues whatsoever. It's been 3 weeks running perfectly.

Dackelone · 07-19-2011, 07:39 PM

I think I would be looking at your primary ignition side. Things like coil packs, plugs, TDC sensors and VANOS (cam)sensors. IF you loose one of those inputs the engine ECU will go nuts trying to maintian the idle.

What about grounds? Have you ever checked your engine ground? That would also cause the DME/ECU to have fits.

One thing you should do is check for DC voltage from engine ground to chassis gound/battery ground - WHILE starting the engine! You will need a peak/hold VOM, run some long leads from teh negative post on the batter and the other lead to the engine block (and then the other grounds in teh engine bay) start the engine... you should no more than 1volt! IF you have more than one volt while cranking... you have a bad ground(somewhere). Lots of techs forget that a bad ground can cause weird things. You can always just use a jumper wire as a temp ground for a week or so... to see IF that fixes your problem. Just make sure the wire is out of ways harm.

Also... tech 101... just because you replaced a part with a new part... DOES NOT mean that new part is a good working part! Sometimes you can get a bad part right out of the box!

ErvGotti · 07-19-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrean8j

O2 SENSORS.....this is a classic example of what happens when they fail......restart they work fine...and as the values get out of wack......shudder, shudder, shake.....failure light....

+1 on this. the symptoms you have and the lamda codes you have go hand in hand to me. The new BMW update's relie heavily on the O2 sensors for AF ratios compared to the old software. If your running catless DP's make sure your tune/fix is running correctly and you have no leaks before replacing your sensors.

dtwyim · 07-19-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e46m3to335i

Thats odd BMW told me when 3 or more injectors need to be replaced they have to replace all of them at once. Its their protocal. Sounds like an injector issue IMHO....

-Nick

I just have my hpfp and only 4 injectors replaced under the recall. So is the dealer supposed to replace all 6?

Would somebody be kind enough to post the link/TSB that says if you need to replace 3 or more, then all 6 should be done? I can't seem to find it.

Cold start idle is never perfectly smooth but now is worse than before I have it done. Can this be a problem with the 'new' 446 pump?

03-16-2011, 05:42 PM	#25
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	heres another question, if it is the o2 sensors is there a way i can tell which ones i need to replace? since we have 2 in each downpipe will have to replace all four or just the ones that are supposed to be after the cats? is there a way i can tell which downpipe the problem is specific to?
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03-16-2011, 05:58 PM	#27
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	are you saying just the rear 2 sensors? i would assume that the front wouldnt be messed up due to no matter what exhaust you have on your car even if its stock they always get fumes. from what im seeing the sensors are about 220 on average but some places offer the rear for around 120.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-19-2011, 12:30 PM	#29
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	ok so heres a new update, i enabled the auto clear codes on the JB4 and the car ran smooth as can be for 2 days, but it started doing the same old things again. i think this would further prove/solidify that this is an O2 sensor issue... what do you guys think?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-19-2011, 08:48 PM	#31
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	im gonna order them this week and replace next weekend. thanks for the help everyone, ill update next weekend
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03-19-2011, 09:01 PM	#32
My135 Lieutenant Colonel 85 Rep 1,609 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	If you have Jb4, you should be able to apply the DP fix which will by pass the bad SO2 sensors, will it? __________________ 7/08 135 Coupe, Crimson Red, 6 SP, Sport, Taupe Lette/Aluminum. Performance Mods: JB4 on Map 5, BMS DP Fix V3, Injen polished intake, AR Catless DP, Maddad resonated mid-pipes, aFe exhaust polished tips, ST Suspension Coil Over and Hotchkis front sway bar. Others: BMS OCC, BT Scanner, Mud Flap. Next Mods: AA Front Strut Brace.
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03-20-2011, 06:15 PM	#33
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	you can turn on the auto code delete which makes the problem go away shortly but not completely.
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03-30-2011, 01:49 PM	#34
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	So I had my buddy who is a vw mechanic check out the car this weekend. He changed my o2 sensors out and that made no changes with my problem, also checked out the fuel pump and said the hpfp is doin its job and creating correct amount of pressure. He said that he thinks it is the fuel injectors and agrees with what 1 person said on here about if 3 or more injectors are replaced they should all be replaced. Gonna pull the injectors this weekend and write down part numbers to see if bmw really did the work they said they did. Ill prob be rolling back to bmw with the tech service bulletin that says all injectors should be replaced... so has no one else had this problem at all???
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-30-2011, 08:36 PM	#36
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	Yessir still shudders from the misfiring every now and then, which causes rough idling when stopped. We are really digging into the fuel injectors this weekend...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 04:21 AM	#37
Boosted1 Private First Class 5 Rep 126 Posts Drives: 135i n54 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Mex iTrader: (0)	I had a very similar problem 2 weeks ago...threwing those exact same codes and misfires everywhere... I tought the O2 sensors past away ... To my surprise, when taking it to the shop to check the sensor, the UR dp's had a hole in the bung that was leaking. We welded it ant everything went back to normal. Fuel deprivation might be caused by a exhaust leak I think. You should def check for all of the exhaust, even the smallest leak.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 08:03 PM	#38
bmore135 Private First Class 13 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	ill take a look at that man, thanks for the input!
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07-19-2011, 06:36 PM	#39
Viper_iii Registered 0 Rep 2 Posts Drives: 128i Conv Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: So. Cal iTrader: (0)	Definitely watching this Thread, now... have a 2010 128i that has these symptoms as well... shakes when starts sometimes... Was revving then shaking randomly usually when Idle at a stop for a long time... like traffic... then would throw check engine... Dealership replaced VVT Seemed to help... now again today it shudders when starting... thows service engine light, but oil change and service was done 1-2 weeks ago while other junk was going on. Seems they've now replaced the HPFP (Fuel Pump) and still getting codes that won't go away... and they aren't sure what they are... not sensors it seems... Sounds like injectors from what I'm reading above... After reading these though I'm glad that I leased the wife this thing... its been in and out of the shop but its still fun to drive... Just don't like it depriving me of MY Car while its in the shop and they don't have loaners and she takes mine! (2011 Rover - which you'd think would be in the shop more than hers!) - Changed to NRFs after the original GoodYears went south after 15k... bubbles and balding. (added a can of fix a flat to the trunk - Tires = $450 installed) - Rattles and bangs from the trunk and even a Booiinnggg sound comes occasionally (Dealership scratches head on those - No Codes/Lights so there is nothing wrong sir). Wanting to see if BMore135 finds exhaust or injector issues...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-19-2011, 07:28 PM	#41
Cameronmac93 1Addict 8 Rep 90 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: SoCal iTrader: (1)	I completely agree that it is most likely an exhaust leak around your downpipes. I had the same symptoms and even with autoclear on I would still feel the vibrations. I got an exhaust leak check and found multiple leaks from the downpipes. Got the exhaust refitted and tightened and no more issues whatsoever. It's been 3 weeks running perfectly.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-19-2011, 07:39 PM	#42
Dackelone European Editor 10528 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	I think I would be looking at your primary ignition side. Things like coil packs, plugs, TDC sensors and VANOS (cam)sensors. IF you loose one of those inputs the engine ECU will go nuts trying to maintian the idle. What about grounds? Have you ever checked your engine ground? That would also cause the DME/ECU to have fits. One thing you should do is check for DC voltage from engine ground to chassis gound/battery ground - WHILE starting the engine! You will need a peak/hold VOM, run some long leads from teh negative post on the batter and the other lead to the engine block (and then the other grounds in teh engine bay) start the engine... you should no more than 1volt! IF you have more than one volt while cranking... you have a bad ground(somewhere). Lots of techs forget that a bad ground can cause weird things. You can always just use a jumper wire as a temp ground for a week or so... to see IF that fixes your problem. Just make sure the wire is out of ways harm. Also... tech 101... just because you replaced a part with a new part... DOES NOT mean that new part is a good working part! Sometimes you can get a bad part right out of the box!
	Appreciate 0 Quote