LSD......

[cracka]

From http://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressc...047950c?open&1

Select "Download 2" for the full document.

The 135i Coupé offers a BMW first by featuring an electronic differential lock to deliver a sporting and ambitious style of driving. The electronic differential lock works when the car is accelerating hard out of corners or tight bends. In this situation, it electronically slows the spinning inside rear wheel to enhance vehicle traction and ensure that all available power is transferred to the road.

If the e90post offer stands, I like chocolate chip + macadamia nuts. :smile:

[larryn]

That's my thinking too, Mike. Basically, it is bringing the spinning wheel back under control, allowing it to get traction again without cutting throttle. Not exactly like an open diff, nor a true LSD. It's certainly better than my e90's diff where I can spin the inside tire until the cows come home on a skidpad with nannies disabled.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by cracka

From http://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressc...047950c?open&1

Select "Download 2" for the full document.



If the e90post offer stands, I like chocolate chip + macadamia nuts. :smile:

Right, again, this is called DTC in all the other current production non-m cars. They still call it DTC in the 1 series, but they also call it "electronic differential lock". Again, again; It's called marketing, they are not lying, they just aren't telling you everything.


I'm serious, go around a corner with DSC off and try and tell me you have anything like an LSD. But that begs the question if you can actually tell or not.



By the way, I already quoted what you quoted many posts ago, so no cookie for you sorry.

[Chibana]

I have a Quaife ATB differential installed on my Mazda3, and I love it. Unfortunately, in a FWD car, it tends to increase torque steer (which was noticeable on my car), but in my opinion the advantages of the Quaife outweight the increase in torque steer, such as a reduction in underteer and better grip in all conditions. If I end up buying a 135i, I will definitely pursue a Quaife for it.

[scottn2retro]

One thing I find interesting is at one time I had heard that an LSD was going to be offered for the 1 series thru Performance Parts.

The latest stuff people saw for Performance Parts did not have any rear diff. Could it be that:

1) they don't want to offer something that would contradict the operation of the E-LSD (or whatever the right acronym is)

2) Would work fine with E-LSD, but not ready to offer in the catalog yet.

3) Would work, but would also have to be sold with a software modification to disable E-LSD, so not offered yet.

?


As far as disabling the DTC (E-LSD), on our race car, we can keep DSC disabled by disconnecting one of the sensors in the system. They were kind enough with the code that when there is sensor gone in the system, instead of disabling the car, they disable the system. Perhaps there will be a similar work around for the DTC.

[AwesomeBMW]

Originally Posted by O-cha

By the way, I already quoted what you quoted many posts ago, so no cookie for you sorry.

The whole point of the arguement was to get a cookie:iono:

[cracka]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Right, again, this is called DTC in all the other current production non-m cars. They still call it DTC in the 1 series, but they also call it "electronic differential lock". Again, again; It's called marketing, they are not lying, they just aren't telling you everything.


I'm serious, go around a corner with DSC off and try and tell me you have anything like an LSD. But that begs the question if you can actually tell or not.

The DSC and DTC can be defeated by the driver. The e-diff cannot. Thus, there is a difference.

I don't think anyone is arguing that this is anything but software "intelligently" applying the brakes, are they? No need to be a rick with a p about it.

And I'm carb-cycling anyhow. Keep your cookies. :smile:

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Right, again, this is called DTC in all the other current production non-m cars. They still call it DTC in the 1 series, but they also call it "electronic differential lock". Again, again; It's called marketing, they are not lying, they just aren't telling you everything.

I'm serious, go around a corner with DSC off and try and tell me you have anything like an LSD. But that begs the question if you can actually tell or not.

By the way, I already quoted what you quoted many posts ago, so no cookie for you sorry.

Hey bro... I really think you should dig a tad further into this. you will see that BMW is first offering this with the 135i. I am fully aware of the angle your comming from. And that is exactly how I viewed the e-diff. Until I saw an animated model of how it works. It was seperate from DTC..!

I'll look to see if I can find more info on this, but there are several BMW video's that suggest you are wrong!

The Quote...

The 135i Coupé offers a BMW first by featuring an electronic differential lock to deliver a sporting and ambitious style of driving. The electronic differential lock works when the car is accelerating hard out of corners or tight bends. In this situation, it electronically slows the spinning inside rear wheel to enhance vehicle traction and ensure that all available power is transferred to the road.

...clearly illustrates it is something different than what the 335i has. Why would a luxury car like a 335i need an agressive LSD anyways..? :biggrin:

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Hey bro... I really think you should dig a tad further into this. you will see that BMW is first offering this with the 135i. I am fully aware of the angle your comming from. And that is exactly how I viewed the e-diff. Until I saw an animated model of how it works. It was seperate from DTC..!

I'll look to see if I can find more info on this, but there are several BMW video's that suggest you are wrong!

The Quote...


...clearly illustrates it is something different than what the 335i has. Why would a luxury car like a 335i need an agressive LSD anyways..? :biggrin:

Actually all the BMW literature and videos prove me right, including EVERY SINGLE thing that you have posted, try to actually read past the marketing, they are just reiterating the function of DTC. I guarantee you you go around a corner with DTC off in the 135 you will know immediately.


Just step back away from the tardation of the rumor mill and the answer is clear.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Actually all the BMW literature and videos prove me right, including EVERY SINGLE thing that you have posted, try to actually read past the marketing, they are just reiterating the function of DTC. I guarantee you you go around a corner with DTC off in the 135 you will know immediately.


Just step back away from the tardation of the rumor mill and the answer is clear.

But it's been stated (numerous times) That even if you turn off DTC, the eDiff is still in place. That implies that the 135i does indeed have a different setup than what currently in the 335i.

Whether it's a mechanical diffeence, or a new function with stand-alone software I do not know. But BMW hase clearly states it is a first for BMW. So lets give some credit where credit is due.

Nobody is saying it's an LSD and nobody is suggesting it's a radical departure from what the 335i has... but it is indeed more performance orientated than what the 335i has.

[bavarianbutcher]

uh oh...here it comes...The whole reason O-Chiwawa is on here is cause he just blew all his benjamins on a new 335 and now he feels like a goof cause he didnt know BMW was going to blindside him with something cheaper and faster. He is just trying to make himself feel better about being impatient.

[bavarianbutcher]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW

The whole point of the arguement was to get a cookie:iono:

lol this sh*ts funny

[Declan]

O-Cha you are the troll of the worst kind... the jealous kind.

from e90post thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...63#post2065063

Originally Posted by billpreston

The 135 guys are excited about their cars who cares.

Originally Posted by O-cha

I do, I don't want them to have something nicer then me for cheaper.

PATHETIC!!! Someone ban this guy.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Declan

O-Cha you are the troll of the worst kind... the jealous kind.

from e90post thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...63#post2065063


PATHETIC!!! Someone ban this guy.

No need, he a VERY knowledgeble member and is pretty "spot on" in most discussions. I'd chalk has rampage here at 1addicts up to just having a bad day.

More than likely he's looking into the eDiff himself, know that many here posed some factual rebuttles. He just missed a few news releases and thought the 135i is a cheaper 335i.

I think many ARE starting to realize that thee' performance BMW is the: 135i... Coincidentally, thats exactly what BMW said 2 years ago when they announced it!

If you want to forgo a more nimble car with better performance, for more luxury... then you get a 3 series!

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Actually all the BMW literature and videos prove me right, including EVERY SINGLE thing that you have posted, try to actually read past the marketing, they are just reiterating the function of DTC. I guarantee you you go around a corner with DTC off in the 135 you will know immediately.


Just step back away from the tardation of the rumor mill and the answer is clear.

I hate to get back into this stupid argument but plain and simple DTC will cut power at some point of excessive wheel spin E-diff Will not it only uses the brake. there is a difference it might not be much but they are different and the 3er doesnt have it so go back to your E90post troll

and honestly I wouldn't be defending the E-diff so much because I think it sucks. but we don't need some high and mighty ass coming over here and ruining our discussions because he has an issue with his manhood.

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

I hate to get back into this stupid argument but plain and simple DTC will cut power at some point of excessive wheel spin E-diff Will not it only uses the brake. there is a difference it might not be much but they are different and the 3er doesnt have it so go back to your E90post troll

and honestly I wouldn't be defending the E-diff so much because I think it sucks. but we don't need some high and mighty ass coming over here and ruining our discussions because he has an issue with his manhood.

I think this sums it up very nicely...

I think for the most part, everyone here dislikes the whole "e-diff thing" (when compared to a real LSD) but there is a difference in the set ups and facts are facts..

Ill wait till i can get in it and drive it hard enough to figure out if spending the money on a "real" LSD is worth while or not??


Can't we all just get along.. or.... lol kidding..

[Scuderia]

If I understand correctly, the Ediff won't actually transfer most of the power the outside tire (the tire with the most grip), but instead it will add just enough resistance to the inside tire to keep it from spinning faster than the outside tire. When you look at vids of people doing burn out/drifts/dough nuts, both tires will smoke but the inside tire will always smoke more. Kinda a like an open diff burnout, but without going completely peg-leg.

One thing I'm wondering though is what happens if you add more bite to the rear brakes (race pads, slotted/drilled rotors, bigger rotors)? Will the Ediff compensate, or will the effect be increased? If the Ediff doesn't compensate, will the resulting effect be negative or positive?

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Scuderia

If I understand correctly, the Ediff won't actually transfer most of the power the outside tire (the tire with the most grip), but instead it will add just enough resistance to the inside tire to keep it from spinning faster than the outside tire. When you look at vids of people doing burn out/drifts/dough nuts, both tires will smoke but the inside tire will always smoke more. Kinda a like an open diff burnout, but without going completely peg-leg.

One thing I'm wondering though is what happens if you add more bite to the rear brakes (race pads, slotted/drilled rotors, bigger rotors)? Will the Ediff compensate, or will the effect be increased? If the Ediff doesn't compensate, will the resulting effect be negative or positive?

This weekend I plan on studying the eDiff a bit more to see if I can get a full mechanical understanding of it. Your post sounds pretty reasonable, it seems logical.

Yeah it will compensate, because it sense the roatation of the shafts... it doesn't matter what forces are being applied to them.

[0002s]

E-Diff has to slow the car down on 0-??? runs. It's applying some braking to control the torque spin.

This could be why 0-XX times are slower than expected on in some publications. 335i doesn't have this so the tester are throttle managing the torque rather than braking managing.

Also...99.9999% of these cars will never be tracked or for than matter pushed to the point where the need for a true LSD will come into play.

The mags are making note of the under steer because they are pushing the car to it's limits in a corner on a track. It's absolutely NO SUPRISE that a car with smaller front tires and ride friendly sways is going to under steer.

Unless you know how to drive through a corner you are going to scrub under power or over steer and spin regardless of an LSD.

80% sweeping corners getting on to the freeway doesn't need LSD.

In fact you are a safer with under steer vs. spinning. I also would not want to give up ride quality for the ability to shave a few 1/10s of a seconds off track times when 99.9999% of my driving will not be done on a track.

It seems we are all complaining about a feature that will not get used often enough to justify the downsides.

-jm2c

There are two problems with this set up for me:

1. Two different sizes of tires means no tire rotation
2. E-Diff has to slow the car down some 1/10's of a second from the a stop and will wear brakes pads out prematurely if one drives like a bat out of hell all the time.

[MihaSLO]

Why would E-Diff work in straight line?
The wheels are rotating at the same speed, whether in corner they don't, and that is way you need LSD, to stop rotating them at different speed.

When you are hammering it in straight line on same surface under both wheels, E-diff won't come in play.

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by MihaSLO

Why would E-Diff work in straight line?
The wheels are rotating at the same speed, whether in corner they don't, and that is way you need LSD, to stop rotating them at different speed.

When you are hammering it in straight line on same surface under both wheels, E-diff won't come in play.

even in a straight line you will spin one wheel with an open diff on a hard launch usually the right rear(because of the rotation of the drivetrain)

[Advevo]

my lsd will arrive next week for my 135i.

Ediff works shitty in a straight line when you have wheel spin. In corners when you floor it it feels like a real lsd. But if the drift angle is nog big enough it works shitty again. So i called my diff supplier and he has tested his own 135i with his diff and it works fine.

So next week i know more myself.