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      08-08-2017, 12:20 AM   #23
AndyW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
That's pretty cool! Good buying as the wheels fit well and look great on your car. The all season tires may be quite slippery on the track, but I never tried it.

If you add spacers now, it might contact your fenders at full steering lock. Personally I'd wait until the camber plates are in.
With 10mm spacer you need to be sure your wheel hub flange doesn't protrude too far. If the hub flange sticks out by more than that, it probably needs to be filed or ground slightly so the spacer will fit completely flush with the hub surface. Its a matter of test fitting the spacers and measuring if possible.

See Turner Motorsport have a warning about this issue:
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...tions/?pdk=BAE
The all seasons can't be worse than the RFTs! I actually have the ContiDWS on my 335i and they are pretty nice for DD work.

I may just get the spacers and test fit them. I just don't like how close the wheel is on the inside. It looks visually like there is room at the fender for 10mm. That is a good warning at the turner site, thx for pointing that out. I don't want to go less than 10mm because 10mm is the smallest with hub-centricity. I am leaning toward the BMS spacers. Any manufacturer you think is better than others? They all seem pretty close (Turner, ECS, BMS, etc) in apparent quality and price.
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      08-14-2017, 11:19 PM   #24
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Put BMS 10mm spacers on the front. They seated perfectly and look agressive (front and rear wheel outer edges seem lined up now). Definitely am close to the line on the fender now, but no rubbing lock to lock and much more space on the inside, which is what I wanted. Need to get some camber dialed in in the front (how much negative can you get stock?) to make sure there is no rubbing when the shock is fully compressed. Anyone else running 10mm spacers on the front?



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      08-15-2017, 08:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
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Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
I have the whiteline 2-piece bushings standing by to install...

Will the Dinan camber plate not do greater than -1.5? My main reason for doing that was that there is no rattle or noise with them like other adjustable camber plates.
I haven't used them so I can't say with good authority.

I think it depends on the ride height. At stock height I guess you will get about -0.7 from M3 arms, -0.7 from Dinan camber plates, and maybe -0.3 from removal of the alignment pins. If you lower the suspension you will get more -ve camber too (as measured in static conditions). A lot of people have lowering springs in combination with the Dinan plates and M3 front arms.
I was able to get -2.4 using the Dinan camber plates and M3 arms.
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      08-15-2017, 09:13 PM   #26
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So, first, I have to say, thx to those who have me advice on the sequence of what to do to get my 135i to be a great streetable track car. I will now apologize because I am disregarding some of that advice...

Guess I am just one who wants to learn the hard way. Anyhow....got a few track days under my belt, and, to me, it is clearly the RFT stock tires that are my current limitation. I realize the conventional wisdom is to upgrade suspension next (and I actually agree with the logic) but I think I am going to do tires first. For the following reasons:

1. I don't have the 3-4K right now to drop on the setup I really want (and don't want to do the suspension incrementally) and

2. I don't want to trash my RFT's (which are basically brand new)

3. Even if they weren't RFT's, I can now feel the 215 width of the stock front tires is too narrow.

So a second set of wheels with decent streetable track tires seems logical.

Car is a 2012 M-sport. Only mods are brake shims, RBF600 brake fluid, a K&N Filter and an upgrade FMIC. No tune yet(see, I didn't disregard all the good advice! ).

I have read way too many threads on staggered vs square and 17" vs 18" and there are clearly lots of opinions. This is what I believe to be the case:

1. 135 has crappy offsets and a tight front wheel well to properly do a square setup without some mods (up to and including the ECS wider front bumper and fender kit). Or I have to accept a smaller tire width all around. One option has a lot of dollar signs to do correctly (and I like to do things correctly) and the other one seems like a step backwards.

2. Square gives more "neutral" control, staggered has more understeer but better staightline grip during acceleration.

I am leaning toward staying staggered... (This article is pretty convincing), especially since I am still a newer driver and understeer is "safer".

3. 17" and 18" wheels can both come with the same width (and therefore contact patch) but 17" wheels and tires are lower unsprung weigh and typically cost less, which both seem like pretty good positives. Also seems like lots of dedicated track cars go 17".

4. 17" wheel and tire options seem more limited than 18".

I think the minimum I should put on front right now is a 235 (from what I've read 245+ requires camber plates and fender rolling to prevent rubbing and I'm not there yet.)

So, two decisions I need some help with...staggered vs square and 17" vs 18". I've pretty much settled on RE71's as the tire since this will still be a streetable car and I intend to drive to events on the tires I will track with (swap out the night before). I suppose i am willing to do a slight roll of the fenders (the tool is only $50 or so) but really don't want to do major surgery on my car at this time.

Any recommendations welcome! Next year is the suspension mod...I promise...
I have a BBK so 17" we're out of the equation for me. I have been running Apex staggered setup on track for a few years (R888 235 front 255 rear, no rub) but just decided on the Apex SQUARE setup last week. I put them on 2 days ago and have been testing the new r888r 245/40/18 for rub issues. Yes 40 sidewalls in front... but please note, the new r888R 245/40/18 is only 0.2" taller than the r888 235/40/18 according to Tire Rack dimensions (and the 235s do not rub). The front spring perch clearance is TIGHT (Bilstein PSS10) so I am testing with a 5mm spacer on R Front, no spacer on L Front (see photo). Why 245 and not 235? Try putting power down with 235s in the rear...

Preliminary results:

The Rear 245 is gently rubbing the fender LINER under heavy compression (due to the wheel offset - a 245 will NEVER rub in the REAR using the correct, staggered offset). This is a non-issue for me personally.

So far zero Front rub under compression in a straight line, with or without the spacer. At full lock the 245 with the 5mm spacer (up front) is rubbing the fender liner (thanks to added caster from M3 arms). At 1/2 to full lock AND under minor-moderate compression, the R Front with the 5mm spacer is also rubbing the fender (inner edge, I am NOT rolled). I will write up a full thread as soon as I finish my field work (including track use) in the next couple weeks.

From my years of searching and communication with Apex/Tire Rack/Turner I have found that info is hard to come by regarding square setups for the non-M 135i.
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      08-16-2017, 11:10 AM   #27
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If I was going to do a street setup for a 135i but wanted to dramatically improve the handling, I would be going with an 8.5" wide front with a 245, and a 9.5" rear with a 265-275.

It will still require suspension modification, but is much less aggressive than trying to fit a 255 in the front which is truly a challenge even on an 8.5" wide wheel (which is a bit narrow) and honestly does not acceptably fit for a street car on a 9.0" wide wheel in my opinion.

-Mark (who runs a WIDE 255 RE71R front tire on his 1 series - and it rubs).
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      08-23-2017, 07:34 PM   #28
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So, in conjunction with getting TPMS installed on my new wheels, I got an alignment done at a local shop with a decent reputation. Unfortunately they (like all shops local to me, apparently) will not adjust "out of spec" so I told them to push camber to the limits, if possible. Turns out they left it cambered out of spec in the front in my favor anyway, as, apparently, the front was already cambered at ~-1.0, -0.9(??). This didn't make sense to me based on everything I have read on this forum, but unless their machine is messed up that's what it is (alignment pin is still there BTW). I should probably check to see if I have M3 control arms or something... I did buy the car used.

Good news is that the car drives fine. They did push the rear camber out and actually let me have 0.1 over on one side. I also noticed they used the spec for the 135is (mine is an M-sport). Not sure if that matters.

This should be fine for the last two track days of the year...next year I may spring for a custom suspension setup, including camber plates and figure out how to do all this myself...

Results:

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      08-23-2017, 10:43 PM   #29
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1/8" toe in on the front is quite a lot. Its about 0.14 degree per side. For track use, zero front toe is a good starting point. More front toe in = More understeer.

Rear alignment is good. Rear looks like max camber and 1/8" toe in, which is ideal IMO.
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      08-24-2017, 07:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
1/8" toe in on the front is quite a lot. Its about 0.14 degree per side. For track use, zero front toe is a good starting point. More front toe in = More understeer.

Rear alignment is good. Rear looks like max camber and 1/8" toe in, which is ideal IMO.
I would have preferred zero toe for the front as well, but they wouldn't go "out of spec" on that parameter, so I am at the min spec. Maybe as I build a relationship with this place they will become more pliable. They were willing to leave the front camber OOS, after all.
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      08-26-2017, 10:54 AM   #31
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New wheels and tires worked great on the track! Still got some chunking on the edge of the fronts (need more camber!), but no visible rollover like i was getting with the stock RFT's. Now just need to wear them out so I can put on RE-71's...

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Last edited by AndyW; 08-27-2017 at 10:16 PM.. Reason: Added pic
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      08-27-2017, 11:16 AM   #32
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I know that I a a bit late but I went with the style 68 wheels on my 135i. They do clear the factory brakes. I wrapped them in falken azenis rt615k tires. 225/45 up front and 255/40 in the rear. Total cost for this set up was about $700. I am still on stock suspension and they do not rub anywhere.
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      08-28-2017, 10:45 AM   #33
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To everyone talking about 255s rubbing up front, they're absolutely right... I have actually irreversibly damaged my bumper where it mounts to the fender from a bad rub (took the corkscrew real deep) and had to add some additional bolts to hold the bumper in place. Also, this happened with about -3* camber up front.
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      08-30-2017, 07:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
To everyone talking about 255s rubbing up front, they're absolutely right... I have actually irreversibly damaged my bumper where it mounts to the fender from a bad rub (took the corkscrew real deep) and had to add some additional bolts to hold the bumper in place. Also, this happened with about -3* camber up front.
I've been saying this for a while now... everyone wants to claim no rub though lol

Personally, I don't care about the bumper. You can't even notice the worn down spot. Hpde is where steady state g's really roll the chassis and wear the bumper down. It doesn't happen as much if at all with street driving.
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      08-30-2017, 08:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
To everyone talking about 255s rubbing up front, they're absolutely right... I have actually irreversibly damaged my bumper where it mounts to the fender from a bad rub (took the corkscrew real deep) and had to add some additional bolts to hold the bumper in place. Also, this happened with about -3* camber up front.
I've been saying this for a while now... everyone wants to claim no rub though lol

Personally, I don't care about the bumper. You can't even notice the worn down spot. Hpde is where steady state g's really roll the chassis and wear the bumper down. It doesn't happen as much if at all with street driving.
Haha yeah I'm totally fine with it too. I'll probably dremel away as much material as possible and then just do a 1M body swap over winter. 275/285 square would be magical on this car.
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