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      03-13-2017, 10:12 PM   #1
AndyW
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Advice on upgrade sequence for 135i for tracking

Hi,

New to this forum. Have owned a 335i for a number of years, but it's a vert, so limits my tracking options. Plus it's kinda heavy for tracking IMO. Seriously considering getting a used 2008-2010 stock 135i for tracking (I like and know the N54)...but *not* exclusively...will still be used for the street. I am full FBO on my 335i and will get there with the 135i eventually but don't plan on dropping thousands to get my car "track ready" day 1..plan to go incremental. What I would appreciate is advice on what order you recommend I upgrade the following things (you can assume I will ensure proper maintenance, fluid inspection/replacement, etc...especially brakes! before I track the car...I am kinda OCD about that stuff).

Here is my proposed sequence of upgrades:

Intake
FMIC
Suspension upgrade kit (shocks/struts/coils)
1M Control arm upgrade kit
Downpipes
CP
Custom WedgePerformance tune - this is what I run on my 335i...very pleased
Racing wheels/tires

then....???

Would appreciate recommendations on the sequence and/or items ...especially suspension stuff...I am not very smart on that yet.

Also...what am I missing?!

Thx, much.
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      03-13-2017, 11:37 PM   #2
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Do some research on E82 tire fitments. My biggest regret is wasting time on slower tires and staggered setups to eventually invest in an genuine square setup. So don't waste time on parts you will replace again, skip to the end game.

1. Real adjustable camber plates, not dinan fixed. Replacing the oem top hat vs adding height to it will make the coilovers you eventually get operate better, that's a given. I also felt the dinan plates didn't offer enough camber.
2. Go squared. 9" all around requires work, but 8.5 with appropriately sized tires works too. Don't try to stick a 255 on a 8.5, I've done it, shit rolls on the sidewall hard.
3. LSD? Think about doing this sooner than later- you could do coilovers, tires/wheels, sways, etc and it will still not drive as you wish, not to mention might make you want to change the suspension MORE after its addition (eg. sways)

What your end game is you can only answer, though if you know you want the most of what the 135i can offer, don't make my first two mistakes and waste a whole season of autocross and track days dissatisfied with the wrong parts.
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      03-14-2017, 01:47 AM   #3
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Ignoring power mods - goes without saying the less aggressive you go the less problems you'll run into. I'd still go with an upgraded fmic though as a minimum.

You'll have more fun with less power being on track then stuck in the garage The need for an oil cooler also increases the more power you run. mhd stage 2 and I was seeing oil temps in the mid 130s C (MT)

This would be my order of doing things. could probably bring the lsd up the list it's only that low due to cost.

high temp brake fluid (absolute must ask me how I know ) - motul rbf600 is good value

upgraded pads - ferodo ds2500 work well on the street however there are more aggressive compounds that sacrafice streetability

camber plates (pretty much essential if you want decent front end grip and tyre life)

rear subframe bushes - probably go soild

coilovers - tck make a great koni kit, plenty of other options though

front sway bay - look for a cheap used one off a wrecked m3

m3 rear guide rods

front m3 arms

Megan racing rear toe arms

lsd - wavetrac or proper clutch diff

1m strut brace - mainly for access to the strut tops for damping and/or camber adjustment.

you'll also want all vacuum lines replaced the heat absolutely kills what's left of them if they are old.
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      03-14-2017, 02:21 AM   #4
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Titium's list is good. I would also consider looking at other options for the front brakes. It depends how serious you want to get. The 135i front brakes are not well suited to hard continuous track use on R-comp tires. For the first stage of your upgrade path the stock calipers will be ok if you are a bit cautious, and have upgraded pads such as Ferodo DS2500 with Racing type Dot 4 fluid. Brake ducting would help a lot. Otherwise I recommend getting "hardbrakes" 1mm titamium shims. That helps protect the calipers and fluid from excessive heat, and allows the piston dust seals to last longer than they otherwise would.

I'm personally not confident about the low cost adjustable rear toe arms. Any changes to the toe arms makes me think about what would happen if they fail. I kept the stock ones on my car, but the alignment guys don't like them very much.
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      03-14-2017, 03:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01
I'm personally not confident about the low cost adjustable rear toe arms. Any changes to the toe arms makes me think about what would happen if they fail. I kept the stock ones on my car, but the alignment guys don't like them very much.
it's not just for toe adjustability. Aftermarket toe arms remove two rubber bushes and replace them with ball joints, this reduces dynamic changes in toe when cornering accelerating, braking ect. (basically means your alignment stays more true under load)

The Megan arms are the only ones I'd go with as we can't go for the m3 arms but you are correct they don't allow for progressive failure if overloaded.

plenty of good info here for the OP

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383
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      03-14-2017, 06:50 AM   #6
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If you plan on working with Ken/Wedge you'll hear this eventually, but I'm kind of surprised that coding changes to the brakes for consistency & to remove problem issues, as well as to code for the LSD when that happens, haven't been mentioned yet

http://www.onelapx1.com/blog/how-to-...-actually-fun\

I'd consider any/all of these important for track use
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      03-14-2017, 07:08 PM   #7
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Thx all for the great input! It is all very helpful.
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      03-14-2017, 07:58 PM   #8
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To start:
Brake pads, fluid and shims.
I personally would be worried about oil temps next... But only the n54 guys can answer that.
Camber plates
Wheels/tires.
Code out nannies.
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      03-15-2017, 08:55 AM   #9
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Cooling mod would be at the top of my list. At minimum an upgraded radiator, then maybe oil cooler. Cant have fun if your car can't make it through a session without overheating.
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      03-15-2017, 09:56 AM   #10
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My history. Motorcycle road race licensed in college, MC track days, BMWCCA and NASA track days in a 318is and 325i. Spec E30 racing for 3 years.

What I would do....

You will learn way more in a slow car driven fast than a fast car driven slow.

If I were going to do this I'd actually go 128i.


That being said.....

No power mods until you can turn consistently fast lap times on what you have.

If you can call it a reliability mod I am ok with it. (Metal Charge pipe etc)

Good quality street tires. You WANT the car to slide around and move or you learn NOTHING. Street tires have gradual breakaway after peak adhesion and you can learn in that area of slip before you slide. Race tires have very steep breakaway (ie lots of grip right up until you have NO grip and you are backward in the grass).

And don't tell me that you will burn them up....that is because you are sliding too much and need to learn how to drive. Tire management is critical. Get them warm, keep them warm, don't over drive them.

Redo all the brakes with high quality components. All the lines too.

Then get a coach in the car every single time you can and LISTEN to them. Have them drive the car and see just how bad you really suck. Once you no longer suck then have at power mods and suspension mods.

Right now you have way too much to learn to introduce the extra power and variables on a tune-able suspension.

Besides you will likely find that going fast around a track is fun but you really want to race and then you have a car that has no class to race in. SO you have to sell your car and buy or build a class car. I am partial to the Spec E30. Yes they are slow but it is all relative. A class of cars that are very close in hp and handling is a ball to race in because you actually get to race.

Spend you money on track days and instruction then suspension, not on power mods that really are meaningless in a track day environment.
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      03-15-2017, 01:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titium View Post

rear subframe bushes
Definitely don't ignore these, the car is pretty squirrelly even at moderate speeds / cornering, it's one of the things many owners learn to hate quickly.

I'd suggest to read up about the "clutch delay valve" as well, it's an easy fix if you deem it necessary.
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      03-15-2017, 01:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
Definitely don't ignore these, the car is pretty squirrelly even at moderate speeds / cornering, it's one of the things many owners learn to hate quickly.

I'd suggest to read up about the "clutch delay valve" as well, it's an easy fix if you deem it necessary.
RSFB should be #1 on the list. It is scary how soft the stock bush are.
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      03-15-2017, 03:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
RSFB should be #1 on the list. It is scary how soft the stock bush are.
Agreed. No other suspension mod will fix what ails this car unless the RSFBs have been upgraded. OP please do a search on this because the subject has been beaten to death on this forum.
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      03-15-2017, 07:56 PM   #14
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Track the car stock and the address the weaknesses as you feel them to be limiting factors one by one. Everytrack and driving style will differ. First expense if I were to start again would be toss up between suspension (rsfb, dampners, springs, camber plates/m3 lwr control arms) or brake upgrades. Pad upgrade is a must. As far as coding goes, I personally found that switching everything off (dtc) stopped brake and acceleration interference but I think different models and flashes from factory behave differently so coding out nannies might be inevitable.

You might find heat management and sorting out various limp modes becomes priority number if your running a tune. Lots of issues come up on track that don't present daily driving with occasional WOT.
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      03-15-2017, 09:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rac View Post
Track the car stock and the address the weaknesses as you feel them to be limiting factors one by one. Everytrack and driving style will differ. First expense if I were to start again would be toss up between suspension (rsfb, dampners, springs, camber plates/m3 lwr control arms) or brake upgrades. Pad upgrade is a must. As far as coding goes, I personally found that switching everything off (dtc) stopped brake and acceleration interference but I think different models and flashes from factory behave differently so coding out nannies might be inevitable.

You might find heat management and sorting out various limp modes becomes priority number if your running a tune. Lots of issues come up on track that don't present daily driving with occasional WOT.
Great approach. Even with just ppk, I was have cooking issues in 90 degree weather. I think shifting at 6k would have helped. But like you said ,
With a real tune things may got hot even more quickly.
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      03-18-2017, 06:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric in RVA View Post
Besides you will likely find that going fast around a track is fun but you really want to race and then you have a car that has no class to race in. SO you have to sell your car and buy or build a class car. I am partial to the Spec E30. Yes they are slow but it is all relative. A class of cars that are very close in hp and handling is a ball to race in because you actually get to race.
Thx for your detailed input! I definitely have a lot to learn. Request you point me to how to get educated on classes...surprised the 135i doesn't fit into one.
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      03-18-2017, 06:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
Thx for your detailed input! I definitely have a lot to learn. Request you point me to how to get educated on classes...surprised the 135i doesn't fit into one.

Yeah there is no great class for the 1.

I only raced with NASA in Spec E30. It was an absolute ball. I did track days with both NASA and BMWCCA.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...-To-Choose.pdf

https://www.nasaproracing.com/proracing/

http://spece30.com/


Keep your car simple, stock and safe. Enjoy the experience. Then build a car with the rule book in hand (maybe not all the way) and go do track days in that. Get comfortable there and then finish the car all the way. Cage, etc.

Get your comp license and race. There is nothing like wheel to wheel.
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      03-19-2017, 09:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric in RVA View Post
Yeah there is no great class for the 1.

I only raced with NASA in Spec E30. It was an absolute ball. I did track days with both NASA and BMWCCA.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...-To-Choose.pdf

https://www.nasaproracing.com/proracing/

http://spece30.com/


Keep your car simple, stock and safe. Enjoy the experience. Then build a car with the rule book in hand (maybe not all the way) and go do track days in that. Get comfortable there and then finish the car all the way. Cage, etc.

Get your comp license and race. There is nothing like wheel to wheel.
Thx!
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      03-21-2017, 09:00 PM   #19
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Upgrade order

First thing to fix is the seat to steering wheel interface. Take a class and seat time, seat time, seat time.

The next order posted is good advice:

high temp brake fluid (absolute must ask me how I know ) - motul rbf600 is good value. +1! I learned this the hard way too. LOL. You've not ass puckered until you've boiled your brake fluid and lost all pedal.

upgraded pads - ferodo ds2500 work well on the street however there are more aggressive compounds that sacrifice streetability

Decent rubber.

Go up from there.
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      03-21-2017, 10:57 PM   #20
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The 135i is a bit too powerful and too heavy to effectively use street tires for circuit use. Street tires may be more effective on lightweight, naturally aspirated cars such as Miatas, E30, or similar.
IMO, not a viable approach for a 135i. Especially considering the limited fender clearance that means you can't fit anything much wider than a 245 or 255.

However, at the very beginning I think you should use street tires in combination with the car's traction control for the first couple of track days. The traction control will help restrict you from excessively overheating the rear tires. Depending how you go developing some basic car control skills, you can consider changing to use R-comps. Soon after that, its possible to learn to drive cautiously with DSC completely OFF. Of course there is a risk you can lose control or spin and crash, but similar risks exist no matter which tires you use.

Street tyres are designed to be used at cool to moderate temperatures on public roads. That is what they are good at. The actually create handling imbalance when they get overheated, and will wear out very quickly. For a 135i you will be limited to using a small fraction of throttle out of turns and it will be very slippery. In my opinion it is not a particularly useful learning experience. If you want to learn to drive with zero traction, it would be better to do it on a skid-pan. The skid pan is actually great preparation for track driving, whereas driving on melted street tires is not as useful IMO.

Last edited by John_01; 03-22-2017 at 05:28 AM..
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      03-22-2017, 12:42 PM   #21
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https://www.windingroad.com/articles...est-racing-car

Not that I think you should drive a Miata, just a good article that gets you thinking in a race mode vs track day mode. Tow different goals.
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      04-01-2017, 07:26 PM   #22
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Any thoughts on DCT for a 135i track car? Sounds like a good compromise for a car that will do both street and track but I've never had one(DCT).
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