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04-01-2017, 03:50 PM | #23 | |
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3 sessions into a cool Road America track day i'm seeing low oil pressure. I changed back to Rotella but the damage was done. I'm currently in the process of repacing the engine bearings. Just my personal experience and another reason i'm overly worried about what oil to run in the more expense 135i. |
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04-05-2017, 08:52 AM | #24 |
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What is the difference from Motul's x-cess and X-Max line of oils ?
I was thinking of trying Motul 8100 X-Max 0W-40 instead of Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40.
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04-05-2017, 09:23 AM | #25 |
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I am not a track junky by any means but I do get to the track about once a year. I used motul xcess 5w-40 and have completed two UOA. I don't understand all of the technical discussion going on nor do I have the time to learn about it all, so I keep it simple. Do some research, pick an oil, test it, and make a decision based on my results. Here are my results: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1193418
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04-06-2017, 12:42 PM | #26 | |
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His test is flawed in so many ways. There are already certified tests in place that tell you everything you would want to know about an oil, stick with the results from standardized tests developed by tribology experts not internet hobbyists. |
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04-06-2017, 12:49 PM | #27 | |
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0-40 X-Max https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...pdf?1449520180 5-40 X-Cess https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...pdf?1375200241 Last edited by bNks334; 04-06-2017 at 01:24 PM.. |
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04-06-2017, 01:23 PM | #28 | |
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This was the first time I had done an oil analysis. I did it because I was afraid of wear on the engine from the 3 track days within a month span on top of 2k+ commuting miles... Metal counts and oil specs barely show any usage (200 load/20psi 93 octane COBB protune by COBB). I stick to 5k mile oil changes now and the cheap Castrol 0-40 or 0-30 if I can find it. Seems to work just fine for a handful of HPDE's and 3 months of daily driving... No way anyone in here is spinning bearings because their oil (I'm referring to LL-01 spec oils) isn't good enough. People spin bearings on track because of high g-forces and oil pickup issues, something BMW themselves recognized as an issue on the N54 and revised for the N55. Either that, or these people only did BMW recommended service intervals (12k mile oil changes) despite putting much greater wear on the oil. Last edited by bNks334; 04-06-2017 at 02:13 PM.. |
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04-06-2017, 02:06 PM | #29 | |
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https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1 You should've ran the 0-40 with a HTHS of 3.6. The 0-40 is no longer LL-01 approved either though and has been showing poor results through UOA's. It does not appear to be the same durable formula as was highly regarded in the past (the old formula was LL-01 approved). |
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04-06-2017, 02:36 PM | #30 | ||
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sludge is the biggest killer of engine bearings imo. 26x/27x is relatively low oil temps it's not uncommon to see temps in the mid 280's which lowers the viscosity of the oil even more. I think that's what people need to realise is that it's not so much what the oil looks like after the track day it's what it looks like during, at high temp, which is why I believe you want a quality oil if tracking the car. (not saying at all that the castrol is bad) I think make sure your oil level is topped up and maybe even slighly overfill and this should alleviate any oil starvation issues unless MAYBE if you're on r comp tyres maxing them out. |
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04-06-2017, 05:38 PM | #31 | |
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It tells you the viscosity of the oil in a dynamic situation (high temp and high shear). The oil is tested for shear at 300f... if the oil has a hths rating of 3.7 then at 280f it's viscosity is above 3.7 but below cSt rating (usually around 12.0 @ 210f for an ll-01 oil). A uoa tells you how much the oil has permanently sheared. If the oils parameters, like cst, tbn, and flash point, have fallen way short of the oils spec than you know the oil has reached its useful live. If the oil came out of the bottle at a cSt of 12.0, but the uoa shows its down to 11.0, then the hths rating at 300f has fallen off from say 3.7 to 3.5. That permanent shear over time could cause the oil to fail to protect the bearings. That just isn't going to happen to an ll-01 high quality oil in a handful of track days and a few thousands miles.... as proven by the above uoas. If your changing your oil every 5k miles you can get a handful of track days out of it too and it will still be in spec. What we care about is using an oil with a high quality base stock that will maintain that 3.7 hths rating long term. Only a uoa can tell you how well an oil is holding up over time and use and ll-01 clearly set the bar pretty high in this regard and always shows strong in uoas. Last edited by bNks334; 04-06-2017 at 05:54 PM.. |
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04-06-2017, 06:20 PM | #32 |
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agreed with the above what you also need to be aware of is where the oil temp is measured
I'm willing to bet that in some parts of the engine oil temps are 20F or more above what's indicated. I imagine that 3.7cst falls off pretty quickly above 300F. |
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04-06-2017, 09:12 PM | #33 |
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04-07-2017, 02:46 PM | #34 | |
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04-07-2017, 09:32 PM | #35 | |
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04-07-2017, 09:46 PM | #36 |
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Just as a data point, here is a Blackstone report from a 2009 BMW 135i with 14 track days on it. It was seeing 290 degree oil temperature, which was higher than normally seen (usually in the 270-280 range). According to Blackstone it was fine - Mobil 1 0W-40.
No - I usually don't go 14 track days before an oil change! |
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04-08-2017, 08:33 AM | #37 | |
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Regardless, I think the take away is still that people aren't spinning bearings on track because their oil isn't good enough lol. Yet, every damn time it happens the first thing everyone says is "must have been the oil" and "my grandpa only run straight 60 weight on track you should too next time." That heavier weight oil isn't going to do squat vs ll-01 in an n54/n55 expect increase oil temps and shear faster lol. |
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04-08-2017, 10:34 PM | #38 |
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04-09-2017, 10:35 AM | #39 |
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That's true. I used to be able to get European Mobil One 0W-40 from the local parts store and it had the LL01 label. It no longer does (as about 1 year ago), and so I've switched to Castrol Edge 0W-40 which is. I don't know what changed, but you're absolutely right, Mobil doesn't have the LL01 specification any longer.
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04-10-2017, 08:39 AM | #40 | |
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Australian data sheet: Mobile 1 0-40 European Car formula (LL-01 approved): http://www.mobil.com/english-AU/Pass...XXMobil-1-0W40 I cannot find the "European car formula" on the Mobil 1 page for the United states. It only show sup on the Australian page. However, "European car formula" is definitely on the shelf at my local auto part store. I'd check the bottle to make sure it ACTUALLY has the ll-01 stamp on it. If not, there is a chance the "European Car Formula" we get here in the states is NOT the same one as the data sheet linked to above (found on the AU site). The new Mobil 1 FS formula 0-40. This is the standard bottle you see on the shelf. It is no longer LL-01, and has different specs than the old formula: https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1 Can't find the old data sheet, but the regular Mobil 1 0-40 used to have similar specs to the 0-40 European car formula I linked to above. It is now thinner (HTHS 3.8 vs 3.6). The problem with this is that the European car formula doesn't go on sale like the regular full synthetic does, so people just grab the regular 0-40 off the shelf at their local auto part not realizing it's no longer the same formula and no longer approved for many higher end cars (as of 2016?). I couldn't find the old data sheet, but here is the specs I saw noted elsewhere for the "old" full synthetic: Approvals: - API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 - MB 229.3, 229.5, LL-01, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, Nissan GT-R Specs: @ 40ºC .................................................. .....................75 @ 100ºC............................................. .........................13.5 Viscosity Index............................................. .................185 MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................31000 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683).......................3.8 Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................11.8 Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3 Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1 Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92).............................................. .230 Density @15ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.85 Last edited by bbnks2; 04-10-2017 at 09:06 AM.. |
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04-30-2017, 12:12 AM | #41 |
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I use PurOl 10w40. Ive been using this for almost 2 years in both my 135 weekend car and just even just started using this oil in my DD A3. the oil is great, noticed lower oil temps and with the stock cooling ive yet to see the oil go past 270 on the track. I've also never had limp mode or anything while running this oil. It cools down fairly quickly between sessions and I've noticed the car runs much better and smoother, although my motor did blow (over 30 track days, 300-400 1st - 5th gear pulls, and 125k. i literally drove my car like i stole it but i own it). I will be using PurOl in the next motor and doing some other things to keep the car running consistently and safely. many of my friends with E30s started using it with nothing but great things to say.
http://www.bisimoto.com i normally order 2 cases at a time and its good for 3 oil changes. i change it every 4-5k or depending on how many track days ive done |
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05-01-2017, 08:20 AM | #42 |
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Anecdotal story to supply to this thread:
Ran M1 5W40 for 2 track days and about 2000 street miles, then sent it in to Blackstone for analysis. Oil temps were 270 all day on track and I'm pushing hard. Heard through the grapevine that the M1's "diesel and truck" oil has a higher zinc count, which is helpful with anti-wear properties. My car is catless, so no harm, no foul in trying. Drum roll please...Blackstone says shows that the viscosity was still fine (no massive permanent shear issues), and the additive counts in the oil were all still good to go. They recommended bumping my OCI up to 3, maybe 4 track days, depending on the street miles in-between. Blackstone report is attached:
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