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      06-16-2017, 10:00 PM   #1
AndyW
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First HPDE done...think I am hooked!

Was a great time.

Pretty sure you can see my grin inside the helmet in this pic if you look closely enough...



Car (2012 135i M Sport - stock) performed phenomenally. I trust it a lot more now that I understand it better (vice the taste I got at the CCC). Didn't feel limited by the car at all and was surprised at how well-behaved temps were, across the board (IAT, trans, oil, brakes), especially after reading a lot of limp mode horror stories. Certainly, with more experience I am sure I will push the car to limits but the thing just did what I told it and I was happy with it all: power, acceleration, cornering, suspension, brakes. Especially brakes!

Probably helps that it was ~60-65F up here in the PNW.

Here is a datazap of my second session at Pacific Raceways in Kent, if anyone is bored.

http://www.datazap.me/u/andyw/2nd-ru...24&solo=4-6-16

I will say that, after getting a couple of rides in the instructor cars, the one that I should probably move up on the list is R-comp tires. Makes a HUGE difference in stopping power and grip in the turns. Any guidance on that for the 1er? Square vs staggered, brand, size, tradeoffs? I am a noob to tire theory also...so much to learn...
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      06-17-2017, 08:42 AM   #2
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Very cool. I've wanted to get to one for a while now. I'm in the desert southwest so I'll have to be fall or winter to avoid baking hot temps. Lol.
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      06-17-2017, 10:53 AM   #3
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It's so addicting, you're trapped now
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      06-17-2017, 06:18 PM   #4
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6MT or DCT? What were your oil temps like? If you are thinking of going to r-comps I would at least invest in suspension mods (shocks, springs, and sway bars) and some better pads. R-comps + stock suspension = lots of body roll .
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      06-17-2017, 07:20 PM   #5
AndyW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyDC4 View Post
6MT or DCT? What were your oil temps like? If you are thinking of going to r-comps I would at least invest in suspension mods (shocks, springs, and sway bars) and some better pads. R-comps + stock suspension = lots of body roll .
DCT.

Oil temps stayed around 243. Max was 248. This actually surprised me a lot.

M-Sport suspension. Definitely looking at better pads when these are gone (ferodo2500). Didn't really experience excessive body roll, but probably will, as I get better at this. Will cross that bridge when I get there.

I have replacement rear subframe bushings on hand (2-piece whiteline) and will install when I have the time. Also have Dinan camber plate and M-3 swaybar on the list. The list keeps growing!
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      06-17-2017, 09:09 PM   #6
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I have a 2012 as well. Here is what I've found after 12+ track days over the last couple of years.

After getting the brakes track ready, I would recommend adding as much camber as you can. The front suspension just doesn't control contact patch well enough. As soon as you push hard the front tire will roll over on the outside edge (gain too much positive camber). In my case I've gone with M3 arms and Dinan camber plates.

Unless you plan to go straight to coilovers, I would suggest staying away from very grippy tires. Stock M-sport suspension just doesn't have enough spring rate. As Frosty mentioned more grip=more body roll=front tire starts rolling over, grinding off the outer edge as well as reducing the contact patch. My opinion is that a Michelin PSS is about as much grip as you want with the stock spring rates. I'm running the RE-71R right now, and even with the camber I've got, the tire is rolling over too much. It works, but it isn't great. I fully expect to wear the shoulder out before the centre.

Definitely, do the rear subframe bushings. This is my next mod. I can feel the rear end do some very strange things when I'm driving at the limit.

In my quest to cure understeer I went with a square tire setup. 235/40/18 all round. (On 18x8, ET40 if anyone is interested). It helped for sure, but isn't a cure all. The spring rates need to be changed to really solve the problem.

TBH, I'm not a big fan of putting on only a big front sway bar. Fundamentally, this should make the understeer even worse. The only reason why this might work with a stock suspension would be the fact that it limits body roll and thus front tire camber change.

So then, that means doing a front and rear bar. Sounds good, but our cars have an open diff. A rear sway bar ties both rear wheels together. Thus as load is increased on the outside rear tire it is decreased on the inside tire, making it harder to put the power down. Not what we want.

Tip: when you get the car aligned after doing the M3 arms and/or camber plates, get the shop to add just a little bit of toe out. I went with an 'out' value of about half of what the factory toe-in setting is. Yes, it sometimes follows road grooves and is a little darty, but worth it to me to get some better initial turn in.

After subframe bushings, my next step is to save my pennies for a nice coilover setup. KW Clubsport or maybe Ohlins.

Only after that do I plan to add horsepower. I believe in getting the chassis sorted out before going really fast.

TL;DR - brakes, add camber, subframe bushings, don't use R-comps until you've got stiffer springs. If/when you've got the cash buy some good coilovers. Then add horsepower.

Enjoy those tracks days!
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      06-17-2017, 10:10 PM   #7
AndyW
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arc_resistant Good stuff. Thx. I guess I was looking at tires because I could already feel that I was getting close to the limit on the stock RFT's grip and figured getting a new set of wheels/tires for the track (which I saw a number of people had) would be a straightforward upgrade(and not as pricey as suspension/camber plates/wheels/tires/control arms/etc)...but I think I understand your points. Maybe what I need to do as middle ground is get a set of Apex wheels that will work in the future for R-comp but just put the stickiest DOT summer tires I can on there so I can drive them to the track(convenience over performance and avoids reaching the suspension limit for now, but makes the RFT's the daily driver only tires). By the time they wear out I'll be ready for the full monty suspension makeover and rcomp tires (and my skills will hopefully be at a point where I can appreciate it!)
I don't see this being a full on track only car for a number of years so have to preserve the street-ability...otherwise there would be a ton of other stuff on my list!
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      06-17-2017, 10:22 PM   #8
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So I read a lot of threads on tires/wheels for track today. One options seems really viable (constraint:I really don't want to roll fenders or do a bunch of other mods right now).

- Get 4 used 261M wheels for a square 245/35/18 setup.

I was looking at the ARC-8 setup mentioned here (https://www.apexraceparts.com/blog/a...s-track-setup/

But it doesn't look like they carry the ET62 offset anymore.
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      06-18-2017, 11:23 AM   #9
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I'd definitely upgrade brakes & coilovers before going to Spec-R tires. In that case sways aren't crucial as you can just stiffen up your spring rates (400/650ish)

TCKlines and ST XTAs are both awesome options but the XTAs come with camber plates which make it real easy to get -3* up front.

In terms of cooling: an oil cooler + distilled water + water wetter and you should be fine at stock-ish power levels

Also 255 square was life changing ... I'm running apex arc-8 255/265 (really closer to 265/275 as they're 595 rs-rr) now and I'm really happy with balance
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