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      09-06-2017, 07:06 PM   #1
JPuehl
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M3 front control arms VS adjustable front camber plates, which is better?

I've read a lot of threads and haven't found this particular subject discussed. I have read a lot of threads where people seem to automatically go for the M3 front control arm swap, but I have read of some people running into tire rubbing issues which makes sense since the M3 control arms just push the tire further outboard, resulting in added camber. I'm wondering if the M3 control arms would be better than adjustable camber plates. I mainly use my car as a DD but my wife and I auto-cross the car whenever we can. I currently have the Ground Control "Street" adjustable camber plates with OEM control arms and am wondering if I should upgrade the control arms this winter? Anyone have information that would help me decide? Below is my current setup.

Front:
OEM control arms
E93 M3 sway bar
Ground Control adjustable camber plates
Swift Spec R springs
Koni SA adjustable shocks

Rear:
OEM control arms
Swift Spec R springs
Koni SA adjustable shocks (from tc kline)
WhiteLine RSFB inserts - would like to replace with a more solid bushing.

My goal is to make the car respond and handle better and I already handle the added NVH from the camber plates so a little more won't phase me.
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Last edited by JPuehl; 09-06-2017 at 07:12 PM..
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      09-06-2017, 07:56 PM   #2
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The M3 arms will add some positive caster (my car was 7.4 degrees measured after install). Positive caster will increase dynamic negative camber on the outside tire when cornering, generally a desired effect. As far as rubbing goes, the wheel will "sit" a little forward in the wheel arch so if you are running taller sidewalls than factory you may run into rubbing at full lock. At factory sidewall and near factory sidewall heights I did not experience any significant rubbing.
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      09-06-2017, 08:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr1 View Post
The M3 arms will add some positive caster (my car was 7.4 degrees measured after install). Positive caster will increase dynamic negative camber on the outside tire when cornering, generally a desired effect. As far as rubbing goes, the wheel will "sit" a little forward in the wheel arch so if you are running taller sidewalls than factory you may run into rubbing at full lock. At factory sidewall and near factory sidewall heights I did not experience any significant rubbing.
Thanks for the response. If I swap the front control arms I'd keep the camber plates, so I shouldn't rub. I'm wondering if they're worth the expense since I already have adjustable camber plates?
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      09-06-2017, 09:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPuehl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr1 View Post
The M3 arms will add some positive caster (my car was 7.4 degrees measured after install). Positive caster will increase dynamic negative camber on the outside tire when cornering, generally a desired effect. As far as rubbing goes, the wheel will "sit" a little forward in the wheel arch so if you are running taller sidewalls than factory you may run into rubbing at full lock. At factory sidewall and near factory sidewall heights I did not experience any significant rubbing.
Thanks for the response. If I swap the front control arms I'd keep the camber plates, so I shouldn't rub. I'm wondering if they're worth the expense since I already have adjustable camber plates?
Independent of your "at rest" static camber (from your camber plates), the control arms' added caster will increase adhesion of the outer "loaded" wheel during cornering.

No doubt your camber is improving your contact patch under load. Generally speaking though, caster + camber will improve overall suspension geometry thus increasing your contact patch beyond what camber alone can produce. Too much of either is bad for a number of different reasons, but a balance of each is more ideal for most applications. It's a complimentary relationship.
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      09-06-2017, 10:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
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Independent of your "at rest" static camber (from your camber plates), the control arms' added caster will increase adhesion of the outer "loaded" wheel during cornering.
Thanks. I was going to post that moving the tire forward does have the benefit of adding a little caster, but you beat me to it. Thanks again for the response.
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      09-15-2017, 11:39 AM   #6
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The M control arm is desirable as it is a simple bolt on mod that both adds camber (good) and replaces the sloppy fluid bushing with a more firm rubber one (good). The camber plate is ultimately necessary either in addition to or instead of for a track/autocross car as the M control arm isn't nearly enough on its own to assist with tire fitment or provide the desired levels of camber.

If my car was purely a daily driver, I think I'd have the Dinan fixed plates plus the M arms - that combo I believe would give me about -2 degrees camber without the drawbacks of camber plates (maintenance, noise, and cost). But if you intend to autocross, you will need at least -3 degrees camber to make the car not terrible.

In my opinion, I think you would see a much bigger gain overall from 1) setting camber to maximum on the plates 2) adding the largest front wheel and tire that you can fit. The next step is to replace the Koni/Swift combo with coilovers so you can tune your spring rates to both make the car handle better and optimize your wheel/tire fitment even better. You should be working towards an 8.5" wheel and 245 front tire on the car.

-Mark
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      09-22-2017, 11:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
The M control arm is desirable as it is a simple bolt on mod that both adds camber (good) and replaces the sloppy fluid bushing with a more firm rubber one (good). The camber plate is ultimately necessary either in addition to or instead of for a track/autocross car as the M control arm isn't nearly enough on its own to assist with tire fitment or provide the desired levels of camber.

If my car was purely a daily driver, I think I'd have the Dinan fixed plates plus the M arms - that combo I believe would give me about -2 degrees camber without the drawbacks of camber plates (maintenance, noise, and cost). But if you intend to autocross, you will need at least -3 degrees camber to make the car not terrible.

In my opinion, I think you would see a much bigger gain overall from 1) setting camber to maximum on the plates 2) adding the largest front wheel and tire that you can fit. The next step is to replace the Koni/Swift combo with coilovers so you can tune your spring rates to both make the car handle better and optimize your wheel/tire fitment even better. You should be working towards an 8.5" wheel and 245 front tire on the car.

-Mark
Thanks Mark. I just took delivery of the M3 front control arm bits and will be doing to swap over the Winter. For autocross, and the street, I already run a 245 tire on an 8.5" rim with no rubbing problems up front. So far I've liked the spring rates of the Swift Spec-R springs and can't justify the cost of coil-overs just to get a slightly wider tire up front. A better tire is the direction I'm headed for autocross rather than just a wider tire.
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      10-13-2017, 08:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
If my car was purely a daily driver, I think I'd have the Dinan fixed plates plus the M arms - that combo I believe would give me about -2 degrees camber without the drawbacks of camber plates (maintenance, noise, and cost).
-Mark
FYI, I have -2.2 with just the Dinan camber plates. Will move up to the M3 bits next season if I start chewing up the outsides of tires again...
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