Traction On/off?

[ennislaw]

I did the PCD and BMW shows you how each setting works on a wet skidpad. I leave mine on default. And fully on, it's easy to flash the DCT light even in second gear with just a little gas. Perhaps it's the RFT, but on public roads, short of snow, mud or some similar situation, it makes good sense to remain on the default setting. Besides, unless folks are doing track time or performance driving instructions, a lot think their skills far exceed their actual ability.

pge

[syenisch]

I leave it on all the time. Even the track. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't get why so many people insist on turning it off. I don't notice a difference in throttle response. I've done a few DE's and tried DTC, and although I could make the back end wobble a bit if I wanted, I didn't find it any faster than DSC. It's all about driving at the grip limit of the tires. If you exceed the limit with any aids on, the car will regain control but you'll have to slow down. If you exceed the limit without any aids on, you'll need to be smart enough to gain control and you'll have to slow down. Why turn it off?

[woner]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

DSC completely off.

I have some sort of a "pre-flight" check in my car every time I drive.

1. Start the car
2. Sport Button
3. Hold down DTC to turn off DSC completely
4. Lever down, left, then tap forward to M1 mode

I drive with the sport button on 95% of the time also. However, I rarely turn DTC off and shift in manual mode unless I'm about to accelerate or corner aggressively. Why do you always shift in manual mode? I find that the car is much clunkier in manual mode and just less convenient, especially during traffic. Sometimes I leave the lever to the left or shift in manual during normal driving if I'm showing off to a friend though.. Maybe my transmission is jerkier in manual because I haven't gotten it reprogrammed yet. I should get that done in a week or so. I'm curious how many DCT owners leave their cars in auto for normal driving. Maybe I'm the weird one.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by woner

I drive with the sport button on 95% of the time also. However, I rarely turn DTC off and shift in manual mode unless I'm about to accelerate or corner aggressively. Why do you always shift in manual mode? I find that the car is much clunkier in manual mode and just less convenient, especially during traffic. Sometimes I leave the lever to the left or shift in manual during normal driving if I'm showing off to a friend though.. Maybe my transmission is jerkier in manual because I haven't gotten it reprogrammed yet. I should get that done in a week or so. I'm curious how many DCT owners leave their cars in auto for normal driving. Maybe I'm the weird one.

I enjoy shifting it myself, I get bored in auto mode. In heavy traffic, of course, I slap it back into D. I don't feel that it's clunky in manual mode... depends where you shift, and yes mine is reprogrammed.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by syenisch

I leave it on all the time. Even the track. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't get why so many people insist on turning it off. I don't notice a difference in throttle response. I've done a few DE's and tried DTC, and although I could make the back end wobble a bit if I wanted, I didn't find it any faster than DSC. It's all about driving at the grip limit of the tires. If you exceed the limit with any aids on, the car will regain control but you'll have to slow down. If you exceed the limit without any aids on, you'll need to be smart enough to gain control and you'll have to slow down. Why turn it off?

DTC on and DSC all off at autocross is a night and day difference for me. The car feels totally different. With DTC, you can feel the car bogging on corner exits. If you don't feel a difference, you either are going too slow or still have the RFTs on the car.

[Augenbrauezug]

Originally Posted by GaryS

For me, DSC = Dynamic Street Control and DTC = Dynamic Track Control, and DSC Off is for drifting. I also use DTC getting started in snow.

I haven't tried DSC Off on a track, because the BMWCCA won't let me, maybe later this year.

adding: I will have a limited slip diff pretty soon. I expect the DSC setting will make a lot less difference.

I don't think this is correct.

I thought it was Dynamic Traction Control and Dynamic Stability Control?

[woner]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

I enjoy shifting it myself, I get bored in auto mode. In heavy traffic, of course, I slap it back into D. I don't feel that it's clunky in manual mode... depends where you shift, and yes mine is reprogrammed.

I'm gonna try shifting it myself for a week or so before reprogramming so I can tell the difference afterwards. I could see how it could be entertaining but at the same time the shift points with just sport mode on are usually just about perfect for me.

Originally Posted by MarkR171

DTC on and DSC all off at autocross is a night and day difference for me. The car feels totally different. With DTC, you can feel the car bogging on corner exits. If you don't feel a difference, you either are going too slow or still have the RFTs on the car.

From talking to experienced track drivers, this sounds spot on. It all depends on how hard you're pushing it..for example, my brother swears that his 06 Cayman S does not handle well at the limits compared to an e90 m3. A professional racecar driver (who has driven race-prepped Caymans) agreed that they are nervous at the limit. Now for 99% of the people out there, myself included, the Cayman's handling will feel damn near perfect. As for our cars, they will feel fine with the aids on until you have enough control to push the car beyond the point where the aids hold you back. FWIW I plan on leaving DSC on and DTC off my first time tracking the car this spring.

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

I enjoy shifting it myself, I get bored in auto mode. In heavy traffic, of course, I slap it back into D. I don't feel that it's clunky in manual mode... depends where you shift, and yes mine is reprogrammed.

hmm why did you get an auto then ??

if mine were a DCT i think i'd leave it in auto the whole time except for spirited driving and track/autox... from my past experiences with cars with tiptronic i find it entertaining for a week or two and then never use it again lol... manual FTW

[MarkR171]

Because it isn't an auto? It shifts quicker than the manual, holds boost on upshifts, and is easier to go through gears through an autocross course. I chose it for the performance benefit, not for the convenience... though having D available for heavy traffic doesn't hurt.

This isn't a tiptronic transmission. If it was, I would have bought the manual.

[Malinois]

Alright i'm confused here. When you start the car DTC and DSC are on by default (for your safety and convience........) I thought when you push the button on the dash once it shuts off the DTC and if you hold it down it shuts off both DTC and DSC, am i correct on this?

I was at Autocross a couple weeks ago and we had this disccusion about DTC and DSC. When you push the button once it shows up on the screen "DTC acticvated", i thought it was already on until you shut it off.

Any thoughts?

[MarkR171]

DTC is not on by default, only DSC is on (Dynamic Stability Control.) DTC is Dynamic Traction control. When you press the button, it activates DTC. When you hold the button, it turns DSC and DTC off.

[Malinois]

Okay. Which one of them cuts the power when the wheels start to spin?

Thanks

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by Malinois

Okay. Which one of them cuts the power when the wheels start to spin?

Thanks

Both DSC and DTC will cut the power, but DTC allows for a little more slippage

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

Read the posts #3 and #13:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250656

If you're wondering what DSC and DTC do and what they mean exactly, read the posts above, really helpful

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

Because it isn't an auto? It shifts quicker than the manual, holds boost on upshifts, and is easier to go through gears through an autocross course. I chose it for the performance benefit, not for the convenience... though having D available for heavy traffic doesn't hurt.

This isn't a tiptronic transmission. If it was, I would have bought the manual.

Well yeah if you're going for performance there's no beating DCT. I've never driven the 135i with DCT but judging from videos it's amazing. I did drive an F430 and a Lambo not to long ago and the transmissions on those were also amazing. From a performance perspective there's no discussion.

However, it's just not as fun and not as demanding of the driver I feel. It's actually challenging to manage all the shifts, heel-and-toeing, etc on the racetrack and it's quite entertaining..

Reason I asked is that if you use the paddles for daily driving it's because you probably get bored of the gears shifting on their own.. so i reasoned you'd be more of a manual guy... after all, you're still just clicking a little paddle and doing nothing with your feet.

[MarkR171]

^ You're absolutely right. Sometimes I feel I should have ordered a 6MT instead... and I shift with the lever more than the paddles for every day driving.

That instant kick in the back when shifting the DCT at hard acceleration still puts a huge grin on my face though.

[Malinois]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

If you're wondering what DSC and DTC do and what they mean exactly, read the posts above, really helpful

Thanks, that explains it well.

[Malinois]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

^ You're absolutely right. Sometimes I feel I should have ordered a 6MT instead... and I shift with the lever more than the paddles for every day driving.

That instant kick in the back when shifting the DCT at hard acceleration still puts a huge grin on my face though.

I agree with you on the transmission, it is amazing. I will never learn to heel toe with it and no man can shift as fast and as smooth as the DCT does.

I tracked the car last year and was smiling all the way.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

If you're wondering what DSC and DTC do and what they mean exactly, read the posts above, really helpful

Here is what they do.

[pixelblue]

guess not much is changed with DSC off. what does MSR or trailer stabilization exactly do?

[syenisch]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

DTC on and DSC all off at autocross is a night and day difference for me. The car feels totally different. With DTC, you can feel the car bogging on corner exits. If you don't feel a difference, you either are going too slow or still have the RFTs on the car.

Isn't the car bogging because it senses a loss of traction though? I can see it might be better to momentarily lose track w/ DSC all off because then when the car does regain traction it will take off at 100%. With the DTC on it would hold itself back a little longer as a precaution before taking off at 100%. But what's important is that there was a loss of traction, and presumably in most cases it is because of driver error. If the driver does his job, it should make no difference.

I was on RFT's at the track, and I know I was not "going too slow." Not really sure how to qualify that statement, but all I can say is I've never been passed at a DE. Not trying to brag -- I'm a humble guy -- just trying to lend some support to my argument.

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

guess not much is changed with DSC off. what does MSR or trailer stabilization exactly do?

Judging by trying to do donuts with DTC on, I guess these logics keep your car from spinning??

Also, the biggest thing I feel when turning DSC off is the fact that the computer no longer cuts power to the wheels, regardless of how much they're slipping... no other way to do donuts for instance