F30 330i loaner review.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

Acceleration and power on the 328 and 330 are nice, but they DO NOT compare to my 135.

Yeah got my car back yesterday and I notice the 135 keeps pulling after 90mph where the 330 sort of loses breathe.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by champignon

The BMW 3 series is more luxurious, and it does have power. But fun to drive? You must be joking.

Feel like an older non-sport 5 series except with that awful steering, Jesus I'm still in shock that BMW won't fix it. The 330 does feel well planted and is well made, but not fun to drive. I did notice the a/c on the 330 was the best I've ever encountered in any car. It starts to blow ice cubes as soon as you fire it up. That's the only thing I feel my 1er is a bit behind in.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

Feel like an older non-sport 5 series except with that awful steering, Jesus I'm still in shock that BMW won't fix it. The 330 does feel well planted and is well made, but not fun to drive. I did notice the a/c on the 330 was the best I've ever encountered in any car. It starts to blow ice cubes as soon as you fire it up. That's the only thing I feel my 1er is a bit behind in.

Its funny there is a thread on 2addicts accusing 1er owners of being luddities who like to put down the newer BMW's to validate our purchases and not feel inferior. I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

I hear this is typical every time a new generation of BMW's is released. Inter-generational infighting amongst owners! Come on, can't we all get along

[Zombie_Head]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Those are all too big for me. Even a 2 series is a little too big for my tastes, but I'd take an M2 if someone wanted to give me a surprise gift.

If that M2 was using that S55 engine, i would had seriously considered it.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Its funny there is a thread on 2addicts accusing 1er owners of being luddities who like to put down the newer BMW's to validate our purchases and not feel inferior. I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

I hear this is typical every time a new generation of BMW's is released. Inter-generational infighting amongst owners! Come on, can't we all get along

I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to, but there is a huge fundamental difference between the 1 and 2 series. The E82/E88 cars were the last vestiges of what I would define as sporty little BMWs that drive like the old BMWs going back to the 2002 and before. The current 2 series is really more like a smaller version of the current 3 series. The soul of the car was extracted and you are left with a powerful, entry level luxury car, and little more. The EPS absolutely sucks.

The M2 is a different animal than the rest of the 2 series; it's not as good a driver as the 1M, but it least harkens back somewhat to its roots.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Head

If that M2 was using that S55 engine, i would had seriously considered it.

The M2 Competition does...

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Its funny there is a thread on 2addicts accusing 1er owners of being luddities who like to put down the newer BMW's to validate our purchases and not feel inferior. I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

I hear this is typical every time a new generation of BMW's is released. Inter-generational infighting amongst owners! Come on, can't we all get along

I remember those days when we hated on the 2 series when it first came out. I was definitely guilty of doing it as well. Except those 2addicts got it wrong. We weren't putting down all the new BMWs, just theirs.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I remember those days when we hated on the 2 series when it first came out. I was definitely guilty of doing it as well. Except those 2addicts got it wrong. We weren't putting down all the new BMWs, just theirs.

I'd be interested in the new 5-series. The design is classy, conservative, balanced, and clean. The M5 is a beast, as usual (and doesn't sound like a V8 is being picked-up by an industrial vacuum cleaner anymore).

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Its funny there is a thread on 2addicts accusing 1er owners of being luddities who like to put down the newer BMW's to validate our purchases and not feel inferior. I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

I hear this is typical every time a new generation of BMW's is released. Inter-generational infighting amongst owners! Come on, can't we all get along

True, but I actually like the 2 series I don't love it. I've driven a M235i and like it very much but I kept coming back to the steering. It's just numb.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

I'd be interested in the new 5-series. The design is classy, conservative, balanced, and clean. The M5 is a beast, as usual (and doesn't sound like a V8 is being picked-up by an industrial vacuum cleaner anymore).

Car and Driver did a comparo in their April/2018 magazine between the 2018 M5, 2018 Cadillac CTS-V, 2018 Mercedes AMG E63 S 4MATIC, and the 2017 Porsche Panamera Turbo. The M5 won.

That is some car! 600hp, 553 lb-ft torque. 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, 1/4 mile in 10.9 @129. All that in an as equipped curb weight of 4288 lb, with all the luxury you could ever want. Awesome car. As tested price of $127,295.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Its funny there is a thread on 2addicts accusing 1er owners of being luddities who like to put down the newer BMW's to validate our purchases and not feel inferior. I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

I hear this is typical every time a new generation of BMW's is released. Inter-generational infighting amongst owners! Come on, can't we all get along

I find 1 Series owners, especially some on this forum, to be among the worst luddites in the BMW community. Saying anything positive about newer models typically frowned upon.

BMW has never not made excellent, engaging, and fun-to-drive cars--even when the engines were stifled by thermal reactors in the late 1970s and early 80s. This assessment absolutely extends to the current offerings, from the 320i up to the M5 Competition. BMW knows exactly what it's doing, and is extremely deft at enticing enthusiasts and the general public alike with the vehicles they manufacture.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by tock172

I find 1 Series owners, especially some on this forum, to be among the worst luddites in the BMW community. Saying anything positive about newer models typically frowned upon.

BMW has never not made excellent, engaging, and fun-to-drive cars--even when the engines were stifled by thermal reactors in the late 1970s and early 80s. This assessment absolutely extends to the current offerings, from the 320i up to the M5 Competition. BMW knows exactly what it's doing, and is extremely deft at enticing enthusiasts and the general public alike with the vehicles they manufacture.

That's some good kool aid right there...you should share. Putting 320i and engaging and fun in the same sentence tells me one of two things-- either you have never driven one, or you have no idea what fun and engaging is.

[WDE82]

Most of the people in this thread don't understand that most of the rest of the western world drives 120 hp diesel hatchbacks so an almost 200 hp RWD gas sedan is pretty sweet.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by tock172

I find 1 Series owners, especially some on this forum, to be among the worst luddites in the BMW community. Saying anything positive about newer models typically frowned upon.

BMW has never not made excellent, engaging, and fun-to-drive cars--even when the engines were stifled by thermal reactors in the late 1970s and early 80s. This assessment absolutely extends to the current offerings, from the 320i up to the M5 Competition. BMW knows exactly what it's doing, and is extremely deft at enticing enthusiasts and the general public alike with the vehicles they manufacture.

The 320i's existence is to make people happy paying the least amount they can just to drive something with a German badge. It is not a bad car by any means, but a Toyota Corolla comes standard with LED headlights and the 320i still gets piss yellow halogens. And yes it goes without saying the 320i is a better drivers car than the Corolla.

I just checked the BMWUSA and didn't even see an option for better headlights on the 320i. It wasn't until I got to the 330i with the Executive package could I select LED lights. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by WDE82

Most of the people in this thread don't understand that most of the rest of the western world drives 120 hp diesel hatchbacks so an almost 200 hp RWD gas sedan is pretty sweet.

I'm sorry but I drove my friend's 2017 340i with a downpipe and a tune and it really didn't excite me that much. Yeah it rips the tires off thru 3rd but I felt quite disconnected throughout the drive. Not my first time driving something with that much power either. I'm sure if I had some more time to play, especially around corners I'd like it more. But in general I wasn't that impressed.

Then my parent's F10 oh god, the steering on a hard corner leaves a lot to be desired. That's a non-M-Sport 528i though.

[tock172]

I stand by everything I said. I've driven more than a few 320i sedans and think they're among the best cars being made by BMW right now. If I had to get rid of my four vehicles and downsize to having just one, I'd be hard pressed to find anything better, for my lifestyle and needs, than a CPO 320i or 328i sedan. The automotive journalism community seemed to agree with my assessment when the model was introduced:

Originally Posted by WDE82

Most of the people in this thread don't understand that most of the rest of the western world drives 120 hp diesel hatchbacks so an almost 200 hp RWD gas sedan is pretty sweet.

Precisely. What is relegated to base-model in the US is typically sold as an upmarket offering in Europe.

[jetrep]

Originally Posted by desertman123

The 320i's existence is to make people happy paying the least amount they can just to drive something with a German badge.

If all they wanted was a German badge they'd get a Jetta

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by desertman123

I'm sorry but I drove my friend's 2017 340i with a downpipe and a tune and it really didn't excite me that much. Yeah it rips the tires off thru 3rd but I felt quite disconnected throughout the drive. Not my first time driving something with that much power either. I'm sure if I had some more time to play, especially around corners I'd like it more. But in general I wasn't that impressed.

Then my parent's F10 oh god, the steering on a hard corner leaves a lot to be desired. That's a non-M-Sport 528i though.

You're not looking at this from the perspective of a regular car driver. Getting in a 340i from your average commuter appliance feels like a fucking rocket ship on rails. A 320i is still a significant driving upgrade from these cars. The standard features are extremely lacking though (no LED lights, really??). But the driving experience, even though lacking to US, is WAY better than what they're used to. They know German's reputation for making amazing driving cars and when they get in one at the dealer, they're hooked even with a weak engine and vague steering because it's still way better than what they're used to.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by WDE82

You're not looking at this from the perspective of a regular car driver. Getting in a 340i from your average commuter appliance feels like a fucking rocket ship on rails. A 320i is still a significant driving upgrade from these cars. The standard features are extremely lacking though (no LED lights, really??). But the driving experience, even though lacking to US, is WAY better than what they're used to. They know German's reputation for making amazing driving cars and when they get in one at the dealer, they're hooked even with a weak engine and vague steering because it's still way better than what they're used to.

Well said!

I might add that, while the 320/328i is considered a base-level-ish luxury car here, it's a much more mainstream car in Europe (their cars are just better to begin with), and is really competing with top-end Hondas, etc (my impressions from a two-week visit to the UK).

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

Well said!

I might add that, while the 320/328i is considered a base-level-ish luxury car here, it's a much more mainstream car in Europe (their cars are just better to begin with), and is really competing with top-end Hondas, etc (my impressions from a two-week visit to the UK).

Last time I was in Germany, the streets and highways were teeming with E87 118d's.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by tock172

I find 1 Series owners, especially some on this forum, to be among the worst luddites in the BMW community. Saying anything positive about newer models typically frowned upon.

BMW has never not made excellent, engaging, and fun-to-drive cars--even when the engines were stifled by thermal reactors in the late 1970s and early 80s. This assessment absolutely extends to the current offerings, from the 320i up to the M5 Competition. BMW knows exactly what it's doing, and is extremely deft at enticing enthusiasts and the general public alike with the vehicles they manufacture.

And you obviously know nothing, either.

BMW is very skilled at one thing; making money, they are very successful at that, and continue to be so. And I salute them for that. I'm a businessman, too, and if I owned BMW I might be doing exactly what they are doing. Dear diary, please excuse me for having typed this :-)

But the new cars are truly shit, if one is evaluating them from the perspective of being engaging, and fun to drive. They used to make cars that fit that description, but for the most part do not do that any longer.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by champignon

And you obviously know nothing, either.

BMW is very skilled at one thing; making money, they are very successful at that, and continue to be so. And I salute them for that. I'm a businessman, too, and if I owned BMW I might be doing exactly what they are doing. Dear diary, please excuse me for having typed this :-)

But the new cars are truly shit, if one is evaluating them from the perspective of being engaging, and fun to drive. They used to make cars that fit that description, but for the most part do not do that any longer.

Perhaps the definition of "fun and engaging" is evolving and changing, and aligning more with "precise and accurate" rather than "fine-grained and talkative."

Cars these days are under increasing demands from consumers to be more capable than ever, and they have to continuously compete at the highest level in order to make money. Most BMW 3-series buyers today are simply looking for a solid, well-engineered, good-looking, refined, spacious, practical, safe, efficient car that's easy to live with every day, and BMW is catering more to them than to a lot of us more old-school enthusiasts (we are a tiny minority). The E30s were so sporting and engaging because that's what people wanted a BMW for, as it was a new-ish brand then (not new, but reinventing itself, if you catch my drift), and mostly only people in-the-know bought them. You can see the current fattening (for lack of a better word) of the 3er start at about the E46, where it was then beginning to be considered a luxury vehicle. Now, the 3-series' buyers are people coming out of their first or second full time jobs as late-twenty or early-thirty-somethings looking to simply move from their base model Civic college car, to a car they can be proud they worked hard for, and can sorta show off to their friends (I see through your tricks ). BMW is just moving with the times, and perhaps they did move a little too quickly in the transition from E9x to F3x, or from E8x to F2x, but they'll be back in the hearts and souls of enthusiasts soon enough (four-cylinder M3 anyone?)...

[champignon]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

Perhaps the definition of "fun and engaging" is evolving and changing, and aligning more with "precise and accurate" rather than "fine-grained and talkative."

Cars these days are under increasing demands from consumers to be more capable than ever, and they have to continuously compete at the highest level in order to make money. Most BMW 3-series buyers today are simply looking for a solid, well-engineered, good-looking, refined, spacious, practical, safe, efficient car that's easy to live with every day, and BMW is catering more to them than to a lot of us more old-school enthusiasts (we are a tiny minority). The E30s were so sporting and engaging because that's what people wanted a BMW for, as it was a new-ish brand then (not new, but reinventing itself, if you catch my drift), and mostly only people in-the-know bought them. You can see the current fattening (for lack of a better word) of the 3er start at about the E46, where it was then beginning to be considered a luxury vehicle. Now, the 3-series' buyers are people coming out of their first or second full time jobs as late-twenty or early-thirty-somethings looking to simply move from their base model Civic college car, to a car they can be proud they worked hard for, and can sorta show off to their friends (I see through your tricks ). BMW is just moving with the times, and perhaps they did move a little too quickly in the transition from E9x to F3x, or from E8x to F2x, but they'll be back in the hearts and souls of enthusiasts soon enough (four-cylinder M3 anyone?)...

I don't talk about cars very much with most people I know or have contact with. Very few people are much interested in the topic, and for the average person, driving a car for fun has as much importance to them as the proper use of the "crisper" drawer in their refrigerator. People might get off on how a car looks, the color of it, the new car smell, that sort of thing, but the actual driving of it, well, not so much.

I would dispute your conclusion that BMW is going to come back and look to attract the "hearts and souls of enthusiasts." I think that is very unlikely. There's a smattering of interest over on the Porsche side (not that much, but a little), and quite a bit of interest in the "Hot Hatch" niche of mostly cheaper cars. But the battle is lost this side of Munich, sorry, it is all but over!