1er coupe U.S. price point???

[SD330i]

Originally Posted by MPower

I'll be impressed if anyone is able to get even close (within 1500 dollars) to invoice on this car for at least a year, more like two. ED will be the only way to get the car at a good price if the car starts at 35 grand.

I will most likely be able to do that and if not I already have my FF miles parked and ready to use for round trip to Germany.:smile:

[Won35i]

Originally Posted by MPower

I'll be impressed if anyone is able to get even close (within 1500 dollars) to invoice on this car for at least a year, more like two. ED will be the only way to get the car at a good price if the car starts at 35 grand.

Looks like I will be impressing you.

[ibeam81]

I don't doubt that some will get a great deal on their 1er and I'm sure that a lucky few will even get a 1er at cost if they have the right connections, but I also feel that the average price will be close to MSRP at least initially.

Frankly it's a little unrealistic to believe that BMW will sell cars routinely at or even close to cost. Besides if you are already paying $30K plus for a car, is another grand really going to break you? I also don't begrudge the dealer making some money as long as they are fair and treat me well.

Generally unless I have an inside connection I'm happy if I can beat Edmund's TMV price. It gets me out of the dealer quicker and lets me enjoy my new car sooner. YMMV.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by MPower

I'll be impressed if anyone is able to get even close (within 1500 dollars) to invoice on this car for at least a year, more like two. ED will be the only way to get the car at a good price if the car starts at 35 grand.

Wow, that is just an outrageous statement.
I negotiated a 335 coupe to $500 above invoice 2 months after it's release.
I negotiated a 328 coupe to below invoice two months after it's release during the same bargaining session.
This was just at a local dealership with me playing with some different financial options- most included $1500-2000 down.

Now I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about- but I will say that floating out an opinion that says customers will not be able to negotiate the 1-er within invoice two years after it's release is extremely naive.

We are talking about a mass-production car here- a car that BMW will want to set sales records with especially during its first few years of introduction.

Keep in mind that BMW's last super sales winner was/is the Mini- you're talking about a car that is priced so low that most people aren't going to feel the financial pain if bargains are scarce. The 135 is a different scenario- and I expect deals (good terms on leases) to come down the pike within months of its introduction.

[joelk]

A loaded 335i has about 13k in options! (base around 40k and loaded is around 53k) If I were to build a 335i like I want it I'd be paying over 50k for the car.

If we get anywhere close to that range of options for the 135i, some of us could easily be pushing 40-45k assuming a base of 35k. :frown: I'd do it anyway because I like the gadgets.

However, iirc some things might be stock with the 135i (e.g. sports pack etc). So that would help some.

[joelk]

Originally Posted by Brookside

Wow, that is just an outrageous statement.
I negotiated a 335 coupe to $500 above invoice 2 months after it's release.
I negotiated a 328 coupe to below invoice two months after it's release during the same bargaining session.
This was just at a local dealership with me playing with some different financial options- most included $1500-2000 down.

Now I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about- but I will say that floating out an opinion that says customers will not be able to negotiate the 1-er within invoice two years after it's release is extremely naive.

We are talking about a mass-production car here- a car that BMW will want to set sales records with especially during its first few years of introduction.

Keep in mind that BMW's last super sales winner was/is the Mini- you're talking about a car that is priced so low that most people aren't going to feel the financial pain if bargains are scarce. The 135 is a different scenario- and I expect deals (good terms on leases) to come down the pike within months of its introduction.

i'm sure you are right; however after placing a deposit I sorta feel like the dealer has me by the balls ... so to speak. of course it's refundable but still. of course it was my choice and I'm sure some would say I shouldn't have done it.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by joelk

i'm sure you are right; however after placing a deposit I sorta feel like the dealer has me by the balls ... so to speak. of course it's refundable but still. of course it was my choice and I'm sure some would say I shouldn't have done it.

I'm in the same boat- but I will not put money down until solid msrp's and full option costs (the dealer sheet) are released. My dealership is tough also, and right now they know I want the car badly. But I own my present car.
If BMW wants to play hard with pricing...demanding full msrp...the customer can always play the waiting game.
atr-hugo lives close by to me...he went out and drove the Z4 3.0i coupe-
an astounding car. He told me by the time he got home the dealer had called and e-mailed very attractive prices- this is on a model that is a very low production/ low volume car and is only on the market for 18 or so months.
People are forgetting that BMW has become a volume manufacturer. They expect their dealers to break sales records every month. The customer may not be in a good bargaining position at the beginning of the 1-ers intro...but I'm betting it won't last long.

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by Brookside

They expect their dealers to break sales records every month. The customer may not be in a good bargaining position at the beginning of the 1-ers intro...but I'm betting it won't last long.

Invoice isn't always the dealer's cost. Manufacturers will offer dealers incentives to hit certain sales targets. This scenario will let them sell below invoice.

You're absolutely correct that dealers have certain sales targets, but if their average sales price is consistently below cost (which again is not necessarily invoice) they will not be in business long. For every person getting a great deal there is probably another person who is paying MSRP.

And of course there are other factors beside the price of the car. Is there financing or a trade? And leasing is an entirely different wrinkle.

Obviously you want the best deal possible, but that said if someone wants something bad enough the price becomes less important. I worked with someone who payed double the MSRP of a Miata when they first came out just because he wanted to be one of the first to have one. I payed MSRP in '84 for a 325e because BMW's workers were on strike and no new cars were coming into the US. OTOH I've also payed below invoice.

Hopefully this board will help people get a good deal, but more importantly I hope that it just helps people enjoy their car more. I'm sure that we will have the requisite "I got a better deal than you did" thread and although helpful, it can get a little tedious at times.

Anyway to get back on topic I hope that a 135i M Sport comes in at $35K, which should get us an invoice closer to $32K.

[mikeo]

Nobody has mentioned the huge difference between ordering a car and buying one the dealer has on the lot. The dealer has little motivation to discount a special order car. While a car he already owns (the manufacturer sells the car to the dealership, which the dealer normally finances while it sits on the lot) is a financial drain the whole time it sits on the lot.

That's not well put, but I'm sure you guys get the meaning.

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Nobody has mentioned the huge difference between ordering a car and buying one the dealer has on the lot. The dealer has little motivation to discount a special order car. While a car he already owns (the manufacturer sells the car to the dealership, which the dealer normally finances while it sits on the lot) is a financial drain the whole time it sits on the lot.

That's not well put, but I'm sure you guys get the meaning.

That's an excellent point and can definitely factor into the deal that you're getting.

[Taki]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Nobody has mentioned the huge difference between ordering a car and buying one the dealer has on the lot. The dealer has little motivation to discount a special order car. While a car he already owns (the manufacturer sells the car to the dealership, which the dealer normally finances while it sits on the lot) is a financial drain the whole time it sits on the lot.

That's not well put, but I'm sure you guys get the meaning.

See, this is one of the things I think is kinda odd. If I walk in to special order a car, that means I'm not tied to this dealer at all. Any dealer in the country can get me the car I want, so it's trivial for me to shop around for a good price.

Even if my local dealer rejects my offer, I'm willing to drive quite a distance for a good deal, and I guarantee I can find someone hungry enough to accept. So if their choice is between a lower price than they want and no sale at all, why would they not sell me the car?

[1N54E92]

Originally Posted by Taki

See, this is one of the things I think is kinda odd. If I walk in to special order a car, that means I'm not tied to this dealer at all. Any dealer in the country can get me the car I want, so it's trivial for me to shop around for a good price.

Even if my local dealer rejects my offer, I'm willing to drive quite a distance for a good deal, and I guarantee I can find someone hungry enough to accept. So if their choice is between a lower price than they want and no sale at all, why would they not sell me the car?

Supply will deterimine how the Dealers will act. I am going to guess that inventory will be depleted very quickly (on 135i) within the first 3 months and dealers will play their games. I bought my TSX at MSRP waited 5 weeks to get here in 2003. I will not pay full MSRP again. I can wait 6 months or so and I will buy a car that is on the lot. Does anyone know if a "Clear Bra" kit for 135i will be available immediately? since this model has been in production in for few years?

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by Taki

So if their choice is between a lower price than they want and no sale at all, why would they not sell me the car?

The short answer is it depends. If they need the sale to make a quota for the month then they will probably made a deal. If they don't need the sale and you don't have a inside contact then they might say "No thanks". It comes down to fairly basic economics. Dealers cannot make all their sales at a lower price than they want and hope to survive.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Nobody has mentioned the huge difference between ordering a car and buying one the dealer has on the lot. The dealer has little motivation to discount a special order car. While a car he already owns (the manufacturer sells the car to the dealership, which the dealer normally finances while it sits on the lot) is a financial drain the whole time it sits on the lot.

That's not well put, but I'm sure you guys get the meaning.

Yes, great point.
My dealer has said their initial allotment of 1-ers will be 6-10 cars. What I suspect is that the first couple of shipments will be evenly split between 128's and 135's... I'm guessing here...but my point is that no matter if BMW has the Leipzig factory going 24 hours a day,
if the car is a sales hit BMW has a variety of strategies it can play in regards to which financial options will be on offer. My own guess is that this is such an important launch for the N/A market that they'll be very adept at adjusting for market forces.

I-beam has mentioned actual dealer prices vs. invoice- I've always thought that taking 8% off of msrp, whether it hits invoice or not, is a rule of thumb I've tried to negotiate to in terms of what I think is a fair price. I've hit it, beaten it, and lost it. And while I agree there's nothing as boring and bs as recounting one's adventures at beating the salesman, condescending remarks are also unwelcome.

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by Brookside

And while I agree there's nothing as boring and bs as recounting one's adventures at beating the salesman, condescending remarks are also unwelcome.

My apologies if it came across as condescending. I probably should use smilies more. :redface:

I actually find the sales process interesting, it's the "I got in at under invoice" without any details that I don't find that enlightening. As has been mentioned before there are a lot of factors involved in setting prices. Each deal is a separate transaction, but that said each deal also has to take the big picture into account. Unfortunately one person getting their car at below invoice doesn't necessarily guarantee that another person will get the same deal.

I do think that supplies on the 1er will be tight initially and that this will have a corresponding impact on pricing. The Leipzig plant has a large capacity, so hopefully this will moderate quickly (unless more ships go down in the North Atlantic :frown.

[larryn]

At Start of production for the e46 and e90, there were no dealer cars on the lots, other than the two demo cars. New models sell out quickly, and they'll use their allocation every month for a while..

[Brookside]

Cool w. me.

[Drillslinger]

Originally Posted by ibeam81

Besides if you are already paying $30K plus for a car, is another grand really going to break you?

Dude, I'll need that extra $$$ for the LSD

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by Drillslinger

Dude, I'll need that extra $$$ for the LSD

Believe me I could use the extra $$$s too, particularly if a rock solid aftermarket LSD is available. :thumbup:

Please don't get me wrong. I'm definitely a big fan of deals, but I guess that in some ways I'm just playing the devil's advocate to expectations of great deals aplenty when the 1er is released.

[Won35i]

It seems at time we're expecting a lot for the price point that we are projecting this car at. Maybe, we will be fooled and this car will come fully equiped, but I can see the price just climbing.

[Drillslinger]

Originally Posted by ibeam81

...particularly if a rock solid aftermarket LSD is available. :thumbup:

Turner Motorsports has the Hartge unit for $4438 HERE

It's a bit $$$ but Hartge has a pretty good reputation :roundel:

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by Drillslinger

Turner Motorsports has the Hartge unit for $4438 HERE

It's a bit $$$ but Hartge has a pretty good reputation :roundel:

Thanks for the link. I guess that I need to save a little more than a grand off the cost of a 1er.

I just noticed this: Price includes $1261 core charge, refundable with the exhange of your stock diff. So it's not quite so steep.