New HPFP information from BMW

[Alext]

I think BMW engineers would have, over the past 3 years or so, figured out that it was cavitation causing these failures...

[larryn]

These "stop/starts after hard driving" epitomize autocrossing. I've not had any problems, and do LOTS of autocrossing in my 135i. Granted, I'm only one point in a statistical plot, but still... Other than the 1er racers here, I probably have one of the most flogged 135i's in this country, I'd reckon. Still on orig fuel pumps.

[hppypaul]

I just had my first one done today. Has 4600 miles, but mine was an exec demo car and I got it with 4300 on the clock. Knew it right away and brought it right in. Feels fine now. Hopefully will last for awhile. Don't want to be stuck on the side of the road again.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by Zed 2.0

I'm pretty sure Mazda's DISI doesn't have anything like the problems BMW has with their direct injection fuel systems.

you would be wrong, porche has problems too

[Why Knot]

Originally Posted by SB135

Great info! I've went through two pumps in 6000 miles, my car is less than 5 months old. I do alot of stop and go driving. I'm sure my under the hood temps are up there. So now the questions is how to keep the under the hood temps down...

Maybe that is what the software update is addressing. My oil temperature is now 10 to 15 degrees lower after the software update.

[BBBluey]

I wonder if anyone with the BMW performance package will get a HPFP failure. The software update people are currently getting might just be the same one from the package for all we know. How could we tell?

[Mega Man]

Somewhat ridiculous, but I wonder if car color has an effect, darker colors running hotter. I'm sitting in my dealership now, getting my first oil change...they're giving me a software update for my radio issues. There's no real way to check boost without some sort of boost gauge...if only there were such a thing! (too lazy to link from my phone; y'all know what I'm referring to).

[135ILess]

So i spoke with my frend.. and as some member said is the cavitation who's doing all the domage. and as he said, it's the BMW design who's suck. you cannot beat the physic...the ambiant temp around pump and under the hood is too hot...At this point you have to do the math $$ between re-design or pay for repair.. the answer for BMW is simple.

Darthcolen as pretty the same answer of my frend!! HOt Start kill the pump...little by little!!!! till your engine is running or your car move, you should not have the problem, cause the fluid flow cold down the pump. if you had a broken HpFp when you were driving, it's due of multiple start stop engine that you do day by day... quite simple...

All direct injected fuel car engine is affected by cavitation, any brand, any mark.. and you don't have to much choice for fuel pump, you have Bosch or Siemmen. MAybe Parker, but i thing they don't do automotive application. (Maybe i'm wrong) and both have the issues using the same car test as mentioned before. the only solution retain for only the CTS is an auxilary electrical pump moving cooling fluid around the pump and yes the CTS have it. the Cobalt, Sky & soltice still have the problem.. he work one years on this problem and he left before resolving the problem..

He told me..*beat it as you stole it.. .. and let BMW paid for theirs bad location of the pump...

So the only thing to do i guest.. it just hoping or move to the North.. LOL

Mine as 30K pretty hard driving, 2 lapping session, and zero problem..PErfect car...

[imported_mega]

cts use a mechanical pump, I searched a bunch and never found an electric pump that was small and could do the psi & flow our cars require

[135ILess]

i know it's not the main Pump who running electric..that will be impossible.. it's an auxilary pump who's pumping coolant fluid around the pump to cold it down..

We have the same application for Cummins ISL or ISB Engine to cold down the turbo..it quite simple to do... you mold all the line inside the casting, but there a space and cost related to doing that i guest!!!

[imported_mega]

our cars have an electric pump, and a mechanical pump

[135ILess]

like you said, i don't see electrical pump doing the same job as the mech one for High Pressure...

[jibaholic101]

so now they are supposed to drive our cars for 40 miles?!?!?

i find that unacceptable

[Xyloft]

maybe i'm being simple but would this be an easy fix? a software update that let the water pump and radiator fans spin a little longer when you shut the car down to cool the motor and engine bay a bit.

giant functional scoops or vents like on the STI or EVO would also help, but aren't really a practical fix for BMW.

[deamon32]

Originally Posted by Mega Man

Interesting...also, is anyone else noticing inconsistent power? Sometimes, you'll drive your car, say shift into second and smash down on the gas pedal and feel like WHOA! Other times, you shift into second, smash on the gas pedal, and feel like, "Is this a Civic?"

Doesnt quite feel like a civic but yea I have that too and the only reason I know my butt dyno isnt wrong is I can gauge it by how much wheel spin I get in 2nd gear.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Xyloft

maybe i'm being simple but would this be an easy fix? a software update that let the water pump and radiator fans spin a little longer when you shut the car down to cool the motor and engine bay a bit.

giant functional scoops or vents like on the STI or EVO would also help, but aren't really a practical fix for BMW.

Maybe, however, this is just speculation STILL.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by imported_mega

our cars have an electric pump, and a mechanical pump

He's talking about using a second electric pump to cool the HPFP.

I still don't understand how cavitation can be a problem for a pump with a pressurized inlet though.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

He's talking about using a second electric pump to cool the HPFP.

I still don't understand how cavitation can be a problem for a pump with a pressurized inlet though.

I was not sure what he was trying to say, the cts uses the same basic setup that we have

my hpfp is suffering from vapor lock, always has been, after a hot shut off, it will stall when it's started again, as long as it sits for 20-40 minutes

so far no codes, not even a code for stalling

[JimD]

Cavitation could be the problem if it's the pump under the hood that is failing. Anybody know? I don't see how cavitation could fail the electric pump at the tank.

Cavitation could still happen to the mechanical pump under the hood if the pressure of the electric pump at the tank is insufficient to keep the gas liquoid at the temperature it gets to under the hood. Pressurizing it will avoid cavitation if the pressure is high enough, in other words. It would seem like BMW could put a big enough electric pump on with the battery being in the back anyway (makes it easier to get enough electricity to the electric pump).

A long crank as a symptom is also consistent with a heat soak issue - under hood temperature too high. Whether it is causing caviation or not, would depend om the damage found. I would expect missing vanes in the pump if the issue is cavatation. Anybody see the insides of a failed pump?

Turbos use the waste heat from the engine to power the turbo. So they inherently run hot. The turbo itself would be the hottest part. Is one of them close to the fuel pump? If so, if there is space, a simple metal heat shield could make a big difference.

The rumors that ethanol in the gasoline caused me to review the properties of ethanol versus gasoline. The latent heat of vaporization (the amount of energy required to turn the liquod into vapor) is much higher for ethanol. But the boiling point may be lower, the table I found gave a wide range for gasoline from below ethanol to substantially above. So maybe the ethanol in the gas could boil at a lower temperature helping the mechanical pump to see vapor.

Jim

[imported_mega]

I dont think these hpfp have vanes, someone posted a diagram of them in another thread, they are interesting to say the least

the pump is bolted right to the engine block, I'm pretty sure it's under the intake manifold, but I'm not positive, someone posted a DIY pump change howto with pictures

[escobar929]

didnt someone recently change their own HPFP, wonder what he thinks after this new info has been posted

[imported_mega]

here's the diy thread
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...light=hpfp+diy