Bimmerlabs vs AA / Stagefp / etc

[asbrr]

All,

Spent some time cleaning out the used manifold I got along with testing the DISA valves (just plugged them into my car and revved through 5krpm, verified they closed/opened at the right times and that there is no shaft play).

I have a BPC stage 1 tune from a couple of years ago, since they are out of the business of tuning I can't go back to them. Need to look at alternates, and started looking at Bimmerlabs. Some questions:

- What base tune is the setup from Bimmerlabs (330i, z4 3.0si, 130i etc)? Is it optimized in any way or just straight from the factory?
- Any reason I can't use the Bimmerlabs tune since I am already on Stage 1 from BPC's old tune?
- Would the AA/Stagefp etc be a bit more power or is the consensus that they are almost the same?
- I've read that some of the aftermarket tunes do not account for the proper error codes from the DISA valves etc, is this true and given the Bimmerlabs file is a factory file, safe to assume that tune would provide all the error reporting necessary?

Any other salient points of comparison between what Bimmerlabs offers vs the aftermarket tuners?

Thanks in advance..

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by asbrr

All,

Spent some time cleaning out the used manifold I got along with testing the DISA valves (just plugged them into my car and revved through 5krpm, verified they closed/opened at the right times and that there is no shaft play).

I have a BPC stage 1 tune from a couple of years ago, since they are out of the business of tuning I can't go back to them. Need to look at alternates, and started looking at Bimmerlabs. Some questions:

- What base tune is the setup from Bimmerlabs (330i, z4 3.0si, 130i etc)? Is it optimized in any way or just straight from the factory?
- Any reason I can't use the Bimmerlabs tune since I am already on Stage 1 from BPC's old tune?
- Would the AA/Stagefp etc be a bit more power or is the consensus that they are almost the same?
- I've read that some of the aftermarket tunes do not account for the proper error codes from the DISA valves etc, is this true and given the Bimmerlabs file is a factory file, safe to assume that tune would provide all the error reporting necessary?

Any other salient points of comparison between what Bimmerlabs offers vs the aftermarket tuners?

Thanks in advance..

From what I have read...I'm not sure if the Bimmerlabs tune have the error codes turned on either.

If you have a stage 1 tune for your car already from BPC, and you haven't had any DME updates from the dealer performed, I would think you would be fine to put it in.

If you read their instructions, they always said that if for whatever reason the Dealer does a program update, it would overwrite their software and you would need to upload your tune again and send it back to them for modification since now it would be your stock tune.

I would think you would have to flash back to your stock tune if going with a different tune like Bimmerlabs.

[carscatscoffee15]

Originally Posted by asbrr

All,

Spent some time cleaning out the used manifold I got along with testing the DISA valves (just plugged them into my car and revved through 5krpm, verified they closed/opened at the right times and that there is no shaft play).

I have a BPC stage 1 tune from a couple of years ago, since they are out of the business of tuning I can't go back to them. Need to look at alternates, and started looking at Bimmerlabs. Some questions:

- What base tune is the setup from Bimmerlabs (330i, z4 3.0si, 130i etc)? Is it optimized in any way or just straight from the factory?
- Any reason I can't use the Bimmerlabs tune since I am already on Stage 1 from BPC's old tune?
- Would the AA/Stagefp etc be a bit more power or is the consensus that they are almost the same?
- I've read that some of the aftermarket tunes do not account for the proper error codes from the DISA valves etc, is this true and given the Bimmerlabs file is a factory file, safe to assume that tune would provide all the error reporting necessary?

Any other salient points of comparison between what Bimmerlabs offers vs the aftermarket tuners?

Thanks in advance..

Can't speak for Bimmerlabs but there's people with varying degrees of success on here with solid results. I believe the only hurdle being if you have headers but I may be wrong on this/this has since been corrected

What I can tell you is that the StageFP feels a bit more refined than the AA tune that was off the shelf. I'm not sure if this had to do with my car being tuned on their dyno or because of the mods added to the car at once helped the car across the power band. With the AA tune the car sometimes had a stumbling on idle (it was infrequent) and at times felt jerky between 2nd/3rd gears. Power wise I can't really be objective on this as I had bolt ons added to my car while it got tuned so it wouldn't be a fair comparison to compare both tunes

If it matters at all, StageFP are the brains behind the N52 tune at BPC I believe so you'd be getting a spiritual successor so to say.

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by carscatscoffee15

Can't speak for Bimmerlabs but there's people with varying degrees of success on here with solid results. I believe the only hurdle being if you have headers but I may be wrong on this/this has since been corrected

What I can tell you is that the StageFP feels a bit more refined than the AA tune that was off the shelf. I'm not sure if this had to do with my car being tuned on their dyno or because of the mods added to the car at once helped the car across the power band. With the AA tune the car sometimes had a stumbling on idle (it was infrequent) and at times felt jerky between 2nd/3rd gears. Power wise I can't really be objective on this as I had bolt ons added to my car while it got tuned so it wouldn't be a fair comparison to compare both tunes

If it matters at all, StageFP are the brains behind the N52 tune at BPC I believe so you'd be getting a spiritual successor so to say.

Thanks - Yea I understand Bob moved over from BPC, so I'm sure the tune will be solid. It's really coming down to a cost decision, spent a ton of money this summer dealing with my AC (evaporator replacement), and a blown diff. So losing out on the investment with BPC from a few years ago and then spending cash again on a new tune and VIN-locked programmer is really irksome.



I like the idea of having a re-usable cable (Bimmergeeks) and a factory tune, just not sure how much of a hassle it's going to be and if there will be issues overwriting an already modified tune with a factory tune or if I'd have to go back to stock first and then go Bimmerlabs etc etc. Need to do some more research and re-assess my comfort level.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by carscatscoffee15

Can't speak for Bimmerlabs but there's people with varying degrees of success on here with solid results. I believe the only hurdle being if you have headers but I may be wrong on this/this has since been corrected

What I can tell you is that the StageFP feels a bit more refined than the AA tune that was off the shelf. I'm not sure if this had to do with my car being tuned on their dyno or because of the mods added to the car at once helped the car across the power band. With the AA tune the car sometimes had a stumbling on idle (it was infrequent) and at times felt jerky between 2nd/3rd gears. Power wise I can't really be objective on this as I had bolt ons added to my car while it got tuned so it wouldn't be a fair comparison to compare both tunes

If it matters at all, StageFP are the brains behind the N52 tune at BPC I believe so you'd be getting a spiritual successor so to say.

My "Off the Shelf Tune" from Bob for my 3SI when he was at BPC was smooth as silk. You couldn't feel any transitions or dips that people were seeing in some of the stuff from AA and the early BPC tunes. They really got it worked out.

When I upgraded my tune with my Headers, it was still with Bob but from StageFP. Off the Shelf tune as well, but no issues like idle fluctuation whatsoever.

Car still is smooth as silk and pulls hard all the way to 7K although they do raise the rev limiter to 7200. But if you go past 7L, you can feel the car flatten out...but the 3SI intake is known to start dropping off at that 6800+ range.

[carscatscoffee15]

Originally Posted by Rmtt

My "Off the Shelf Tune" from Bob for my 3SI when he was at BPC was smooth as silk. You couldn't feel any transitions or dips that people were seeing in some of the stuff from AA and the early BPC tunes. They really got it worked out.

When I upgraded my tune with my Headers, it was still with Bob but from StageFP. Off the Shelf tune as well, but no issues like idle fluctuation whatsoever.

Car still is smooth as silk and pulls hard all the way to 7K although they do raise the rev limiter to 7200. But if you go past 7L, you can feel the car flatten out...but the 3SI intake is known to start dropping off at that 6800+ range.

^ everything he mentions is correct.. you'll squeeze some more power off an N54 manifold swap at the expense of torque

both good options but for day to day driving 3IM is the best bang for your buck

Hope we were both able to help in some form! I'm glad this forum is still somewhat active!

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by carscatscoffee15

^ everything he mentions is correct.. you'll squeeze some more power off an N54 manifold swap at the expense of torque

both good options but for day to day driving 3IM is the best bang for your buck

Hope we were both able to help in some form! I'm glad this forum is still somewhat active!

Hehe - I've been dragging my heels for months on this 3IM, and compared to everyone else am pretty late to the party. Keeps the posts/topics alive I guess

Thanks for the feedback carscatscoffee15 & Rmtt

I sent a note to StageFP asking if they have an off the shelf combo tune for a 3IM + AFE Stage 2 Dry Sealed intake....with the labour day sales I might just go whole hog and get that and then it makes sense to go with StageFP vs the OEM tune via Bimmerlabs.

[carscatscoffee15]

Originally Posted by asbrr

Hehe - I've been dragging my heels for months on this 3IM, and compared to everyone else am pretty late to the party. Keeps the posts/topics alive I guess

Thanks for the feedback carscatscoffee15 & Rmtt

I sent a note to StageFP asking if they have an off the shelf combo tune for a 3IM + AFE Stage 2 Dry Sealed intake....with the labour day sales I might just go whole hog and get that and then it makes sense to go with StageFP vs the OEM tune via Bimmerlabs.

Don't get a new manifold, those are 800+ new without valves.. go the used route on eBay.. a couple hundred and use the money you saved to get new DISA valves. It'll save you the headache down the road and you start fresh with what matters most. Also get new manifold gaskets to prevent leaks (these aren't that expensive).

afe intake, save your money.. go for the Euro box conversion and get the box used. If you wanna know a bit more, drop a line. I just completed my N52 FBO!

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by carscatscoffee15

Don't get a new manifold, those are 800+ new without valves.. go the used route on eBay.. a couple hundred and use the money you saved to get new DISA valves. It'll save you the headache down the road and you start fresh with what matters most. Also get new manifold gaskets to prevent leaks (these aren't that expensive).

afe intake, save your money.. go for the Euro box conversion and get the box new. If you wanna know a bit more, drop a line. I just completed my N52 FBO!

Yea definitely, I should've mentioned I already have a used manifold with good condition valves. I had the opportunity to buy a euro box last summer but passed because I couldn't find any definitive proof of performance (or sound) improvements.

Ok so basically you're saying what I knew in my gut, the AFE (or any other intake) would be mostly for sound and nothing else ...

[carscatscoffee15]

Originally Posted by asbrr

Yea definitely, I should've mentioned I already have a used manifold with good condition valves. I had the opportunity to buy a euro box last summer but passed because I couldn't find any definitive proof of performance (or sound) improvements.

Ok so basically you're saying what I knew in my gut, the AFE (or any other intake) would be mostly for sound and nothing else ...

Sound wise it sounds a bit more meaty, the performance difference on either is negligible... if you really want more performance from your air intake you might as well do the Dinan ram air snorkel (or some homebrewed variation of this for A LOT less, it's been documented here as well). If you are getting a Euro box new, you're just paying for the sensor included.. also if you do decide to do this job, search the part number on geoship or any other site that is a global eBay search engine for best results (I saw one on this forum for 200 bucks thinking it was a good deal instead of 550 new, when I inquired it had been sold but I searched the part number on an eBay aggregator and ended up with the airbox for 60 bucks). I too myself did extensive research on the intake side of things which is what led me to go down that route... if anything the afe offers a smooth air intake tube on the back end (which you can do with the Turner Motorsports silicon elbow + Euro box for a lot less than the afe intake as a whole)

Used manifold with a decent tune and you're good.. now whichever one you choose is on you and your preferences.. I wanted something tried tested and true and went with the StageFP dyno tune (I drove from NYC plus they installed the manifold and MILVs) so that was my reasoning.... plus I also got a cable for future retunes need be. My manifold was used too but didn't wanna risk the valves going bad (and for my own piece of mind as well as my vehicle is low milage) and decided on a fresh start.

whatever you decide to do I'm sure will be better than stock!!

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by asbrr

Yea definitely, I should've mentioned I already have a used manifold with good condition valves. I had the opportunity to buy a euro box last summer but passed because I couldn't find any definitive proof of performance (or sound) improvements.

Ok so basically you're saying what I knew in my gut, the AFE (or any other intake) would be mostly for sound and nothing else ...

Eurobox is the only thing I would swap my Intake out for. I kept the stock box, did a charcoal delete, different"dry" filter, smooth TB hose, and put in the AFE intake scoops which bolt up and drop right behind your grill. Not sure about the scoops and the "ram-air" or cooling effect, but it didn't hurt anything. I basically got them for free as I had points built up from a previous buy so I thought why not?

As carscatscoffee15 mentioned, just replace your IM gaskets. I would also replace your throttle body gasket as well.

I will be taking a few days off from work during the first week of October, so I will install my Milvs then. Already have my tune sitting here waiting.

I know you got my old rear differiential. In the future if you ever wanted to go further, you could do a gear swap. I went from the 3:23's to 3:73's. Now if you do a lot of interstate driving....3:64's may be a little better. I'm rarely on the interstate, but it wouldn't have stopped me from going 3:73 anyway.

But in any car I've owned or modded, a gear swap was always the biggest SOTP feel. I remember doing heads, cam, intake on one of my Corvette's....after tuning I netted about 110hp to the wheels.

A few weeks later I did a gear swap, and it was a bigger change to the butt dyno than the H/C/I previously completed!

[asbrr]

Thanks for the replies Rmtt and carscatscoffee15 - after a weekend of resisting temptations to drop money on the AFE intake (for the sound, if I'm honest lol) I think I will be going with the stageFP tune. I'll spend the money there instead of an intake is how I'm reasoning it, vs farting around with the bimmerlabs tune (which I'm sure is fine, just want this to be seamless).

I will think about doing the elbow if anything and leave it at that....

Thanks again