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      12-06-2013, 01:24 PM   #287
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Sorry to revive this old thread but read all of it until my eyes got red, and did not find my answer ;-)

Something that hasn't been proposed is the replacement of the E92 sway bar bushings only (rubber mounts + stabilizer supports), on a stock 135i with the M package.

I noticed that the E92 and E82 bars have the same 26.5mm diameter, so wonder if this could work, and be as effective as using the whole kit. My thinking process says that the beefier M3 bushings may do most of the work, and the bar is not as important in the whole equation.

31352283516 - Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, bottom - 2
31352283517 - Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, top - 2
31352283037 - STABILIZER SUPPORT - 2

Here are pics of the stock E82 FSB bushings and brackets:



Here are pics of the stock E93 FSB bushings and brackets:

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Last edited by dcaron9999; 12-07-2013 at 06:59 AM..
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      12-06-2013, 04:58 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post

I noticed that the E92 and E82 bars have the same 26.5mm diameter, so wonder if this could work, and provide results as noticeable as using the whole kit.
I recall someone criticizing swaybar bushings in an old thread. Therefore you can try, I assume the result will be good
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      12-06-2013, 10:51 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Sorry to revive this old thread but read all of it until my eyes got red, and did not find my answer ;-)

Something that hasn't been proposed is the replacement of the E92 sway bar bushings only (rubber mounts + stabilizer supports), on a stock 135i with the M package.

I noticed that the E92 and E82 bars have the same 26.5mm diameter, so wonder if this could work, and be as effective as using the whole kit. My thinking process says that the beefier M3 bushings may do most of the work, and the bar is not as important in the whole equation.

31352283516 - Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, bottom - 2
31352283517 - Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, top - 2
31352283037 - STABILIZER SUPPORT - 2
This whole bushing replacement craze amuses me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 135i sway bar bushings and just because a "M" part is compatible doesn't make it a better upgrade. There is no discernible difference between the 2 and there are so many other areas you could spend money on the car and get more value. Else you may as well go through every part on realoem and start swapping, starting with M wiper blades.
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      12-06-2013, 11:41 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
This whole bushing replacement craze amuses me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 135i sway bar bushings and just because a "M" part is compatible doesn't make it a better upgrade. There is no discernible difference between the 2 and there are so many other areas you could spend money on the car and get more value. Else you may as well go through every part on realoem and start swapping, stating with M wiper blades.
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      12-07-2013, 06:46 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
This whole bushing replacement craze amuses me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 135i sway bar bushings and just because a "M" part is compatible doesn't make it a better upgrade. There is no discernible difference between the 2 and there are so many other areas you could spend money on the car and get more value. Else you may as well go through every part on realoem and start swapping, stating with M wiper blades.
Thanks for your valuable input.

OEM rubber sway bar bushings are designed with comfort in mind, allowing the sway bar to articulate while permitting additional movement, leading to less-than-ideal bar retention and causes unnecessary body roll.

I guess that is why there is plenty of stiffer aftermarket FSB's out there to choose from, including the the E92 and E93 FSB that are direct replacements...

If you have nothing valuable to add, please move on ...
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      12-07-2013, 07:38 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Thanks for your valuable input.

OEM rubber sway bar bushings are designed with comfort in mind, allowing the sway bar to articulate while permitting additional movement, leading to less-than-ideal bar retention and causes unnecessary body roll.


I guess that is why there is plenty of stiffer aftermarket FSB's out there to choose from, including the the E92 and E93 FSB that are direct replacements...

If you have nothing valuable to add, please move on ...
Theoretically a shark fin antenna is more aerodynamic than a rod style so should everyone with a rod antenna who tracks their car upgrade? The point is it's not quantifiable nor would you be able to tell the difference. You want to waste money based on theories by all means. But you're the one looking for these roundabout fixes. If you want to stiffen up the front and decrease understeer, upgrade the suspension to coilovers where you can run linear springs of your choice and have the ability to adjust dampening / rebound based on track conditions. It's simple as that but spending money on glorified bushings will only make your wallet lighter. And if coilovers are not in your budget than just save your money for expendables like tires, pads, maintenance because we all know how fast those things add up after a season of tracking.

Am I against all bushings? No the subframe ones clearly are too soft but not fsb. How do I know? Because I installed the m3 fsb and there was no noticeable difference in rigidity. Why don't you take a poll with the RACERS on bfc and ask how many upgrade to aftermarket fsb bushings. I guarantee the results will say barely any. I'm all about real world results and best bang for buck, not theoretical benefits perpetuated by forum junkies.

You may think I'm being unhelpful but I'm genuinely giving you the best advice on how to make your dollar go the furthest and avoiding unnecessary mods. It was no different when I told you to skip the street pads for track.

You just seem to get defensive whenever someone tells you something you don't want to hear. If you knew you wanted the bushings then just buy without asking. But don't get mad if someone says no to a question you posted.
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      12-07-2013, 08:51 AM   #293
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3002Tii: I dont doubt your experience and expertise, but when you come one here and your first reaction is to crap over the post instead of answering, dont expect sympathy.

The goal of forums is to seek advice, share experiences, and ask questions, no? You are very capable at coaching, judging by your second response, but you need to tone it down ...

I simply asked a question, and expected a civilized answer. You seem to have an attitude issue, and enjoy taking blows at newbies. Whatever amuses you ...
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 12-07-2013 at 08:57 AM..
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      12-07-2013, 11:16 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
3002Tii: I dont doubt your experience and expertise, but when you come one here and your first reaction is to crap over the post instead of answering, dont expect sympathy.

The goal of forums is to seek advice, share experiences, and ask questions, no? You are very capable at coaching, judging by your second response, but you need to tone it down ...

I simply asked a question, and expected a civilized answer. You seem to have an attitude issue, and enjoy taking blows at newbies. Whatever amuses you ...
This coming from the guy who argues with me and others whenever we give you a direct answer but it's not what you wanted to hear? Check your spacer and brake pad thread to refresh your memory. I usually start with civility but admittedly I have less patience with your threads. I'm all for making your dollar stretch the most but there are just times you are simply going about it the wrong way and this is no different. My frustration lies in that I don't want anyone here to make ill-informed decisions based on your stubbornness you've exhibited in your past threads. But I'll try to be nicer going forward.

In regards to this thread, let's take a step back and think what you're trying to accomplish. You want the front end sway to stiffen up the front, why? Because in lieu of getting a coil over setup, this will effectively increase the spring rates which would result in less body roll and increased traction. The sway bar is not the ideal way to do this but it *works*, but bushings alone will not accomplish this. Bushings and sway bars clearly accomplish 2 different things and 1 is not a replacement for the other. The thickness, density and curvature of the bar is what makes a difference hence why the E92/3 M3 bars do result in different handling characteristics. Sure the M3 bushing might be marginally stiffer but, I assure you that marginal stiffness is not what translates to increased grip. The marginal stiffness is there to accommodate the thicker/stiffer bar. If you know you're never going to get suspension work done, go directly for the bar but don't do it piecemeal, bushings first, then bar. Your'e just putting the car on ramps and pulling off the undercover 2x, that alone isn't worth your time to prove some theory.
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      12-07-2013, 05:51 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by AussieRacer View Post
Not necessarily.....depends why the understeer is being caused with the stock bar. If it is because the outside tire is being overwhelmed by vertical loads (meaning too much weight on it), then a stiffer bar will reduce this. If the whole front end is losing grip via geometry or just cornering too fast, a stiffer bar may not necessarily cause 'more' understeer, but rather speed up the on set of/transition to understeer.
so, entering a corner, if there is a tendency for understeer, the addition of a front bar shouldn't create more understeer? I don't really feel much understeer exiting a corner, but I do entering.
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      12-09-2013, 05:39 PM   #296
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IMO, this whole idea of using a sway bar to reduce understeer only happens on cars that have stock front camber. If your car has camber plates or the M3 front arms, a firmer front bar will add understeer. Once you have front camber on the car and combine non-staggered tires, the 135i will become quite snappy. Personally I like the E93 M3 front sway bar because it dials in some understeer and makes the car more stable in high speed braking on the circuit. For people with otherwise stock suspension and staggered tire sizes, the 26.5mm E92 M3 bar seems a good choice for street driving.
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      12-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
IMO, this whole idea of using a sway bar to reduce understeer only happens on cars that have stock front camber. If your car has camber plates or the M3 front arms, a firmer front bar will add understeer. Once you have front camber on the car and combine non-staggered tires, the 135i will become quite snappy. Personally I like the E93 M3 front sway bar because it dials in some understeer and makes the car more stable in high speed braking on the circuit. For people with otherwise stock suspension and staggered tire sizes, the 26.5mm E92 M3 bar seems a good choice for street driving.
My car has both the M3 front control arms, and Ground Control camber plates, set for max negative camber when I hit the track. I also replaced my rear subframe bushings for solid M3 bushings (did that as a DIY).

I did experience this "snappiness" you mentioned on the track. I wonder if my front camber adjustment was overdone or too far beyond the rear setting (maxed at -3.2 in the front , and -1.6 in the rear). I do get better turn in though.

Sounds like the E92 front sway bar on my stock M sport suspension may help with the understeer, and outside tire edge wear, and I can probably dial down my negative camber slightly as a result.




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      01-17-2014, 08:16 PM   #298
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Almost ready to pull the trigger on a E92/M3 front sway bar on my stock M sport suspension. Not ready to invest in new dampers+springs this year. I hope this reduces body roll, understeer, and outside tire edge wear. Maybe this will allow me to dial down my negative camber in the front slightly from -3.2, and still get good results (ie no sudden snapping of the rear end) at the track.

I might get Dinan camber plates, because the rattle noise coming from my adjustable Ground Control "Street" plates is driving me nuts. I was never able to get rid of the noise, even with support and various parts provided directly by Ground Control Tech Support.
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      01-18-2014, 01:12 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Sounds like the E92 front sway bar on my stock M sport suspension may help with the understeer, and outside tire edge wear, and I can probably dial down my negative camber slightly as a result..
I wouldn't count on it reducing understeer as your car isn't limited by front camber. Anyway it would be interesting to see how it goes. 3.0+ degree front camber is generally an essential ingredient if you want to get good turn in and reasonable tire life.
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      01-18-2014, 09:42 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
I wouldn't count on it reducing understeer as your car isn't limited by front camber. Anyway it would be interesting to see how it goes. 3.0+ degree front camber is generally an essential ingredient if you want to get good turn in and reasonable tire life.
I hope the E92/M3 front sway bar reduces body roll, and does not increase understeer too much.
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