BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-03-2012, 09:44 PM   #375
Drawn05
Captain
Australia
47
Rep
853
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Left

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavo335 View Post
To be honest I have been surprised that on the two track days I haven't seen any adverse oil temps. I have a dct and jb4 with 'max cool' turned on and the max oil temp was 120, which after sitting in the pits for 2-5 minutes dropped to 105.
Everyones fan would be at maximum capacity at a track day, regardless of which piggyback they were running.

Also, I would say that if you were getting the same oil temps most people get with daily commuting but out on a race track like that, then either you were driving miss daisy-style or mostly parked over on the side?
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 09:54 PM   #376
1q2w3e4r
Breakfast at Tiffany's
1q2w3e4r's Avatar
19
Rep
1,054
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to 1q2w3e4r
1M radiator part numbers
Radiator- 17117558480
Module carrier- 17107524912
Module carrier (R)- 17107524914
Additional radiator- 17117602241
Radiator fan housing 850W fan - 17428508253

135
Radiator- 17117558480
Fan housing with 600 w fan - 17427545366
Module carrier- 17107524912
Module carrier (R) - 17107524914

Last edited by 1q2w3e4r; 05-03-2012 at 10:01 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #377
pavo335
Banned
pavo335's Avatar
52
Rep
2,936
Posts

Drives: 3.5 wheeler
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
Everyones fan would be at maximum capacity at a track day, regardless of which piggyback they were running.

Also, I would say that if you were getting the same oil temps most people get with daily commuting but out on a race track like that, then either you were driving miss daisy-style or mostly parked over on the side?
perhaps you should come to the next drive day and we can compare
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 09:59 PM   #378
JB4-335
Brigadier General
Australia
148
Rep
3,080
Posts

Drives: E92 BSM & E70 AW
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia

iTrader: (1)

The JB4 will engage the waterpump and the engine fan when the driver wants so you can activate it way before your oil temps get close to 100 to begin the cooling earlier just to give you that extra edge.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 11:01 PM   #379
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
1M radiator part numbers
Radiator- 17117558480
Module carrier- 17107524912
Module carrier (R)- 17107524914
Additional radiator- 17117602241
Radiator fan housing 850W fan - 17428508253

135
Radiator- 17117558480
Fan housing with 600 w fan - 17427545366
Module carrier- 17107524912
Module carrier (R) - 17107524914
Thanks for that. Does anyone know how much the additional 1M radiator and 850w fan will cost? I could be keen.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 11:19 PM   #380
Drawn05
Captain
Australia
47
Rep
853
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Left

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Thanks for that. Does anyone know how much the additional 1M radiator and 850w fan will cost? I could be keen.
I dont think its quite as simple as just replacing the stock fan with the 850w version. The install instructions of the ppk show that the new fan requires being hooked up to the dme, so it will require additional coding for it to work properly.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 11:45 PM   #381
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey Vinney,

my research strongly suggests that the external dimensions of the AT rad' are the same as those of the MT rad'.

To be honest I imagine Peter would rather simply toss that "extra radiator" in the bin, than attempt to improve upon it.

He has a concept for a his 335i that would see a substantially larger primary radiator installed, but it will also require a new intercooler to be designed and fitted.

The above system would also see a supplemental trans cooler fitted up, whilst retaining the use of the OE transmission heat exchanger.
Justin, whilst I welcome the idea of a completely new radiator that replaces the stock unit, I'm not a fan of the close mesh design as it has it's downsides for a daily driver. In my case, this is my daily driver, and the occasional weekend track car so definitely a no-go for me.

Also, as you have already stated, changing out the radiator will create the need to purchase a new FMIC (which I already have and am happy with) and purchase a stand alone trans cooler. I have no doubt this would be the ultimate solution but for most it could be an overkill. Plus it sounds like big $$$. The radiator alone is $1200 or so, plus needing the FMIC and trans cooler and installation, plus the wait time to develop the product, it's just not feasible at this stage.

If you could somehow replicate and improve upon BMW's design of incorporating a secondary radiator in the brake duct, I would think it would be priced more reasonably and it might be up to the task anyway. I would welcome this idea depending on price and design.

By the way, any updates on the progress of the stage 2 oil cooler? Any photos of it installed and photos of the bracket? I hope there are not any issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
I dont think its quite as simple as just replacing the stock fan with the 850w version. The install instructions of the ppk show that the new fan requires being hooked up to the dme, so it will require additional coding for it to work properly.
That's a real shame. Nothing is easy on these cars!
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #382
1q2w3e4r
Breakfast at Tiffany's
1q2w3e4r's Avatar
19
Rep
1,054
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to 1q2w3e4r
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Thanks for that. Does anyone know how much the additional 1M radiator and 850w fan will cost? I could be keen.
Not off hand, you have the part numbers. Ring a BMW service centre and see how much they are

Peter and the like could get you a better deal.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 11:54 PM   #383
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
Not off hand, you have the part numbers. Ring a BMW service centre and see how much they are

Peter and the like could get you a better deal.
Sourcing local prices is a waste of time, everyone knows prices are heavily inflated here. I'd rather not waste the dealers time chasing prices for something I will not buy from them as they are not competitively priced.

I was referring to buying from overseas. I punched in these part numbers on some vendor websites and it says 'not found'. I would have to send an email requesting the price but if someone had it handy it would save everyone some time. This isn't my next mod but it's definitely on my radar.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 12:20 AM   #384
1q2w3e4r
Breakfast at Tiffany's
1q2w3e4r's Avatar
19
Rep
1,054
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to 1q2w3e4r
No one is going to have pricing for them locally outside of the dealer network yet (or in the Aust forum) as I doubt anyone would have had to order a replacement one (unless someone has already punted one and a workshop has ordered a replacement).

The stock radiator retails for $190 USD just contact Turner or the like and get pricing if you are keen on it.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 12:31 AM   #385
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
No one is going to have pricing for them locally outside of the dealer network yet (or in the Aust forum) as I doubt anyone would have had to order a replacement one (unless someone has already punted one and a workshop has ordered a replacement).

The stock radiator retails for $190 USD just contact Turner or the like and get pricing if you are keen on it.
Thanks mate, I will look into it shortly. I thought the stock radiator would cost a lot more. If the stock radiator is in fact $190, I suspect the additional radiator is a lot less than that as it's quite small. It could be a cheap and effective solution for anyone that wants a cheap upgrade. Lets hope the 850w fan is reasonably priced too!
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 01:12 AM   #386
Drawn05
Captain
Australia
47
Rep
853
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Left

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Thanks mate, I will look into it shortly. I thought the stock radiator would cost a lot more. If the stock radiator is in fact $190, I suspect the additional radiator is a lot less than that as it's quite small. It could be a cheap and effective solution for anyone that wants a cheap upgrade. Lets hope the 850w fan is reasonably priced too!
He means the additional radiator that is the same as the stock oil cooler and its $189 from ECS tuning. I have seen the fan for as little as $400 but you are looking at $600+ for it realistically (before shipping). Its not going to be as good as the aftermarket stuff either as none of this stuff was designed for anything other than stock power levels.

As you are in the same boat as me regarding AT, I would suggest doing the Oil cooler and then something for the ATF. Things can be done to mitigate water temps before needing to upgrade radiator but there is no way I would go back on the track without hard core cooling for the transmission as its definitely the weakest link.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 01:16 AM   #387
1q2w3e4r
Breakfast at Tiffany's
1q2w3e4r's Avatar
19
Rep
1,054
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to 1q2w3e4r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
He means the additional radiator that is the same as the stock oil cooler and its $189 from ECS tuning. I have seen the fan for as little as $400 but you are looking at $600+ for it realistically (before shipping). Its not going to be as good as the aftermarket stuff either as none of this stuff was designed for anything other than stock power levels.

As you are in the same boat as me regarding AT, I would suggest doing the Oil cooler and then something for the ATF. Things can be done to mitigate water temps before needing to upgrade radiator but there is no way I would go back on the track without hard core cooling for the transmission as its definitely the weakest link.
I mean the OEM radiator (part no 17117558480) retails for $190 USD plus shipping.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 01:20 AM   #388
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
He means the additional radiator that is the same as the stock oil cooler and its $189 from ECS tuning. I have seen the fan for as little as $400 but you are looking at $600+ for it realistically (before shipping). Its not going to be as good as the aftermarket stuff either as none of this stuff was designed for anything other than stock power levels.

As you are in the same boat as me regarding AT, I would suggest doing the Oil cooler and then something for the ATF. Things can be done to mitigate water temps before needing to upgrade radiator but there is no way I would go back on the track without hard core cooling for the transmission as its definitely the weakest link.
Agreed, towards the end of the day at my last track day I felt like the transmission was the weak point also. Something will definitely need to be done but I thought it was something else at the time and put it down to overheating and possibly bad fuel. How much do you think a stand alone trans cooler will cost? I would also like something aftermarket for a radiator hence why I requested Advan to look into improving upon BMW's PPK design as there's a place for it in the air duct. The stock radiator is partly responsible for cooling the AT trans.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 02:03 AM   #389
Drawn05
Captain
Australia
47
Rep
853
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Left

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
I mean the OEM radiator (part no 17117558480) retails for $190 USD plus shipping.
Sorry, as its the same price as the secondary radiator I am amazed that its the same price!! Very interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Agreed, towards the end of the day at my last track day I felt like the transmission was the weak point also. Something will definitely need to be done but I thought it was something else at the time and put it down to overheating and possibly bad fuel. How much do you think a stand alone trans cooler will cost? I would also like something aftermarket for a radiator hence why I requested Advan to look into improving upon BMW's PPK design as there's a place for it in the air duct. The stock radiator is partly responsible for cooling the AT trans.
From my understanding (and open to correction) 15% of the radiators surface area is dedicated to the AT heat exchanger which I think is at the bottom. Rather than be cooled by fresh, cool air like the oil cooler, the AT relies on the overall temperature of the radiator to keep it cool. If you radiator is struggling to keep water temps down than its not going to work well with the atf and likely to make matters worse. And unlike the water cooling, the ATF doesnt have oil cooling to assist it.

My belief is that if you can cool the AT fluid before it gets to the radiator then it will transfer less heat to it and therefore even assist in keeping water temps down - maybe peter or justin could clarify that.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 05:28 AM   #390
Justin@ADVAN Performance
Captain
Justin@ADVAN Performance's Avatar
Australia
28
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: N54 135i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alik01 View Post
Hey mate,

Don't know about gentlemanly, but it's the right thing to do. So my offer stands, if it helps at all.

In regards to the system, I am still interested and willing of we can make it work on a 1M or even something different. I don't know the water temps but oil temps are certainly high - suppose the two are related.

I am in the GB for the P3 Guage so will be able to have more info on hand.

Thank you.
Hi mate,

with regards the Stage 2 oil kit working with the front bar of a 1M, I really need to have a good look at one in the workshop.

There is no reason for the hardware not to mount up, but the efficiency of the kit will be significantly reduced if airflow to the core, is not optimal.

As I said previously the heat transfer capability of the cooler, is largely dependant upon the amount of frontal surface area, that sees clean air at speed.

As per the nice pic provided by Steve, the Setrab 20 row EW core of our Stage 2 kit is positioned optimally behind the RHS air duct.

Do you have any fellow BMW mates in Sydney, that just happen to own a 1M that you could persuade to let us have a close squiz at?

Or for that matter are there any 1M owners reading this thread, that would allow us to investigate the likelihood of our kit fitting the 1M?

Cheers,

JD.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 05:59 AM   #391
Justin@ADVAN Performance
Captain
Justin@ADVAN Performance's Avatar
Australia
28
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: N54 135i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianf View Post
I did some research and seems that the 1M's cooling is just the same as the S2 PPK hardware principle. Brings up water vs oil cooling debate!
Hey Ian I suspected that was the case.

IMHO,

what should be open to debate is why did BMW in all their wisdom, install a secondary radiator of such meagre proportions into a M vehicle, that is targeted at the track day enthusiast?

It makes you wonder if this was there way of moving all those BMW PPK components that were never sold, as the cost versus performance ratio of the kits were somewhat underwhelming.

Anyway whilst I am not saying it can definitely be done, as we have not performed a close inspection of the 1M front bar, but it would have been nice if BMW had fitted up oil and water coolers more in line with the volume of our cores, for the dedicated "track day" car that is the 1M...
Attached Images
   
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 06:19 AM   #392
TimMc
Lieutenant Colonel
TimMc's Avatar
Australia
36
Rep
1,875
Posts

Drives: 135i SCT N54
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavo335 View Post
To be honest I have been surprised that on the two track days I haven't seen any adverse oil temps. I have a dct and jb4 with 'max cool' turned on and the max oil temp was 120, which after sitting in the pits for 2-5 minutes dropped to 105.
I only saw water temps of 124 max at last Friday's track day, which was quite reasonable. It was a cool day though. On hot days I've seen (when I bothered to look) 138 degrees oil temp on track. Ambient temperature obviously make a big difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
I dont think its quite as simple as just replacing the stock fan with the 850w version. The install instructions of the ppk show that the new fan requires being hooked up to the dme, so it will require additional coding for it to work properly.
You're suggesting that the new/bigger 850w fan requires being hooked up to the DME? I haven't fitted my kit yet but presumed the bigger fan, in conjunction with the supplied relay, will just run off the output used by the standard 650w fan. I hope so as I'm not looking at getting any recoding done after install. Recoding is required if you're using the PPK higher power retune though. Tell me if you think I'm wrong.

I'm not sure that the bigger (or any) fan is required on track. I think your high average speed combined with the extra LH radiator will make the difference. The bigger fan is only needed for low speed running/city traffic on hot summer's days etc. Thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 06:23 AM   #393
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey Ian I suspected that was the case.

IMHO,

what should be open to debate is why did BMW in all their wisdom, install a secondary radiator of such meagre proportions into a M vehicle, that is targeted at the track day enthusiast?

It makes you wonder if this was there way of moving all those BMW PPK components that were never sold, as the cost versus performance ratio of the kits were somewhat underwhelming.

Anyway whilst I am not saying it can definitely be done, as we have not performed a close inspection of the 1M front bar, but it would have been nice if BMW had fitted up oil and water coolers more in line with the volume of our cores, for the dedicated "track day" car that is the 1M...
Justin - I know it's a completely different car but when I was at the dealer a little while ago I had a good look at the new M5 and inside the front bumper and it appears to have a similar setup to the 1M. I thought it came standard with a dual oil cooler but it would not surprise me if I had mistaken it for an additional radiator. I lost count of how many cores they had in there I'm sure it's setup up this way for a purpose.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 06:51 AM   #394
Drawn05
Captain
Australia
47
Rep
853
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Left

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimMc View Post
You're suggesting that the new/bigger 850w fan requires being hooked up to the DME? I haven't fitted my kit yet but presumed the bigger fan, in conjunction with the supplied relay, will just run off the output used by the standard 650w fan. I hope so as I'm not looking at getting any recoding done after install. Recoding is required if you're using the PPK higher power retune though. Tell me if you think I'm wrong.

I'm not sure that the bigger (or any) fan is required on track. I think your high average speed combined with the extra LH radiator will make the difference. The bigger fan is only needed for low speed running/city traffic on hot summer's days etc. Thoughts?
I thought the same thing but after reading the instructions it wasnt the case.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/attac...hmentid=591788

From my experience, if a bmw component needs to be installed onto a new module socket, then only coding will make it work.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 07:16 AM   #395
TimMc
Lieutenant Colonel
TimMc's Avatar
Australia
36
Rep
1,875
Posts

Drives: 135i SCT N54
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Perhaps you're right. I hope not. If the DME just "thought" it was feeding a signal to the original fan then there should be no issue. I'll try and read up some more & see how the hardware/connections on page 21 (A5* Socket contact, on DME control unit A6020, plug X60101) differ.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 07:21 AM   #396
BMW86
Major General
Australia
324
Rep
9,169
Posts

Drives: CLA45 AMG Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

I'll take it off your hands Tim
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:06 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST