Another HPFP bites the dust

[optimaxed]

Just passed the 1 year anniversary on my 2008 135i thinking I have been lucky but at 12k miles I get a check engine light, the car stalls, cannot accelerate, long cranks.

Call BMW assist and have it taken to the dealer. Dealer pulls up the following fault codes: 29DC, 29F2, 97FB.

BMWUSA asked them to carry out tests, took time to respond...and agree that a new HPFP is required.

Car fixed but exhaust note sounds different and I get this regular 1 sec on 1 sec off buzz/hum sound which I can hear from inside the car at idle...
Called dealer and waiting for them to call me back.

[joeo]

My 2009 135i makes those same noises that you're describing and has always done that since new.

-Joe
http://www.lovehorsepower.com

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally Posted by optimaxed

Car fixed but exhaust note sounds different and I get this regular 1 sec on 1 sec off buzz/hum sound which I can hear from inside the car at idle...
Called dealer and waiting for them to call me back.

My dealer claims this is a noise made by the heater cores, which is normal and they won't try to fix. It also seems to me it is something related to HVAC, because playing around with turning climate control and A/C on/off changes the sound. Oddly, when my dealer updated my software the noise went away almost completely.

[cagekicker]

that's terrible!

[optimaxed]

Well after 600 miles on a new HPFP the same symptoms have returned, loss of power and check engine light...taking it in tomorrow morning to see what the matter is.....lets hope they can get this resolved.

I was so happy with the car 2 weeks ago, but things can change very quickly !

[lacrosse]

Looks like I am on my way to a second replacement this year too!

[JohnL135I]

Originally Posted by optimaxed

Well after 600 miles on a new HPFP the same symptoms have returned, loss of power and check engine light...taking it in tomorrow morning to see what the matter is.....lets hope they can get this resolved.

I was so happy with the car 2 weeks ago, but things can change very quickly !

Wow, 600 miles...........they should just give you an M3

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by optimaxed

Well after 600 miles on a new HPFP the same symptoms have returned, loss of power and check engine light...taking it in tomorrow morning to see what the matter is.....lets hope they can get this resolved.

I was so happy with the car 2 weeks ago, but things can change very quickly !

It's GOT to be something else along with this pump, and it may be the pump is just the final casualty of what the real problem is.
Pump failure is the final result of whatever it is that eventually causes these pumps to fail. Only 600 miles it seems unlikely that something like fuel has enough time to cause this failure. It's got to be something in the fuel system that is causing this. A hydro-lock condition or something like it would kill a pump very quickly, just like water in the combustion chamber can crack a piston as it's trying to compress incompressible water.
If fuel is somehow backing up into the system of even the pump, the pumps pistons surely couldn't deal with the added stress.
I'm just guessing as I'm not positive on the how the whole system works but there has to be something else here besides build tolerances or weak seals, 600 miles doesn't seem long enough for those things to cause the failure.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by RPM90

It's GOT to be something else along with this pump, and it may be the pump is just the final casualty of what the real problem is.
Pump failure is the final result of whatever it is that eventually causes these pumps to fail. Only 600 miles it seems unlikely that something like fuel has enough time to cause this failure. It's got to be something in the fuel system that is causing this. A hydro-lock condition or something like it would kill a pump very quickly, just like water in the combustion chamber can crack a piston as it's trying to compress incompressible water.
If fuel is somehow backing up into the system of even the pump, the pumps pistons surely couldn't deal with the added stress.
I'm just guessing as I'm not positive on the how the whole system works but there has to be something else here besides build tolerances or weak seals, 600 miles doesn't seem long enough for those things to cause the failure.

My thought as well. This is why I am suspicious of aftermarket pump will permanently fix the problem. Illogical of BMW to switch to a different pump yet the same problem still persists.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Robert

My thought as well. This is why I am suspicious of aftermarket pump will permanently fix the problem. Illogical of BMW to switch to a different pump yet the same problem still persists.

Yes, I agree. I was on a thread trying to discuss the issue of an aftermarket pump "fixing" this problem. But, I got bashed good for daring to question the ability of an aftermarket tuner "fixing" the problems with the OEM, when it hasn't been clearly established yet that the OEM pump IS the only problem, and nothing else is causing it to fail.

That company even wants to offer a LIFETIME warranty on their pump.
Either they realize that the failures aren't going to be that common, so they'll replace a few under warranty yet make a good profit on the rest, OR, they have seriously missed the actual cause of the pump failure and thus they will lose any profit by having to cover their pump for the LIFETIME of the vehicle.

Imagine those customers that have had 2 or 3 replacement already, and they buy this pump. If the cause of the failure is something or somewhere else, they'll be sending those customers new pumps every few thousand miles for LIFE. I see on that thread that the marketing/advertising for that pump has dropped to near 0. Perhaps their testing has shown them something interesting?

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by Robert

My thought as well. This is why I am suspicious of aftermarket pump will permanently fix the problem. Illogical of BMW to switch to a different pump yet the same problem still persists.

Even if the problem is caused by something other than the pump itself, there is no reason a more robust pump can't be designed/released.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by oasis3582

Even if the problem is caused by something other than the pump itself, there is no reason a more robust pump can't be designed/released.

I can see a reason, but post why you think there is no reason?
Maybe I'm missing something.

Also, what does "more robust" mean?
Reading that vendors thread didn't shed any light on what was actually changed or modded so that we can call it more robust.
Most of the vendors comments were directed at a pump that would allow for greater capacity/greater flow, so that those wanting to generate more power wouldn't be held back by the OEM pumps limits.
This is a common upgrade in many cars, especially turbo's, where the tuning can exceed what the pump and/or injectors can deliver.

So, in that sense, sure, more robust performance.
But, in terms of reliability robustness, I don't see where we have that information.
Also, for example, higher flow injectors aren't necessarily build more robustly, they are built to have different capability. But, that doesn't mean the OEM injectors aren't built with the same durability for their given flow rates.

Also, let's say a new physically robust pump is made, how do we know that that will solve the issue?
It may just mean that instead of needing a new pump every 10-20k miles, you'll need one every 30-40k.
An improvement? Yes. A fix for the actual problem? No.

[lacrosse]

Well tonight on the way home the car was rough at idle when started. I pulled out of the parking lot and drove about 20 feet when the service engine soon light came on. Another 50 feet or so (in the middle of an intersection) and the car loses power big time (mind you, I was accelerating slowly because of the service engine light). Suddenly the DSC Malfunction light comes on only to be replaced by the 1/2 power engine light and the "Brake" light on the dash turns yellow. The iDrive is telling me that the DSC has malfunctioned, and to drive at a reduced speed. The car was bucking so bad that I couldn't have driven any faster if I wanted to. I manage to limp into an adjacent parking lot and I turn the car off.

After waiting about a minute, I start the car again and it runs fine, no lights, etc.

Tomorrow, a return to the dealer. I can't wait to see what this is after replacing the HPFP, the waste gate actuators and both turbos. Oh, and aside from the grill and tint, the car is stock in case you were wondering. I have not now nor ever modded the engine, drive train, etc.

I used to feel like this: Now the thought of my car has me feeling like this

[AUS1969]

My pump just went at 25,000 miles.

[lacrosse]

Fuel Injectors this time around!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by lacrosse

Fuel Injectors this time around!

I'd start looking into the lemon laws if I were you. Turbos, fuel pumps, and now injectors? WTF?

[Project1]

Wow man, that is terrible...let us know what happens...

[lacrosse]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I'd start looking into the lemon laws if I were you. Turbos, fuel pumps, and now injectors? WTF?

I have six months left on the lease. Looking at other makes. Maybe an Audi S4? Would love a 997S but too freakin' expensive. Even toying with the notion of a M3.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by lacrosse

I have six months left on the lease. Looking at other makes. Maybe an Audi S4? Would love a 997S but too freakin' expensive. Even toying with the notion of a M3.

Ah I see. Lucky you! This is the first car I've ever really wished I'd leased.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by lacrosse

I have six months left on the lease. Looking at other makes. Maybe an Audi S4? Would love a 997S but too freakin' expensive. Even toying with the notion of a M3.

Cayman S with pdk

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by lacrosse

I have six months left on the lease. Looking at other makes. Maybe an Audi S4? Would love a 997S but too freakin' expensive. Even toying with the notion of a M3.

Your current BMW is a borderline lemon and you are thinking of buying another? Don't expect much more from the Audi, but I cannot speak for the S4s. Hot car, though.

[lacrosse]

Originally Posted by Robert

Cayman S with pdk

Would love too but then I would have to leave either the girlfriend or son at home..................on second thought