Faulty Logic Regarding 135i Pricing

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

Well damn I guess I'm immature then. The reason I love BMW is because I believe they have the perfect balance of performance and luxury. I also told myself that my next vehicle will be have to be FASTER and have more room. As a young professional acceleration is very important to me as well as the other creature comforts. If people dont care about moore oomph then there would be no reason to buy a 335i over a 328i. Then why are their 3 different versions of the 5 series(not including the M5). Sure the bigger motor models have a few more toys but not enough to justify the price premium.

I believe what you said is exactly in my post that you quoted.

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by Idealistic

This thread is about the 135i exclusively. If someone wants a 1 series and isn't so concerned about speed, why would they buy a 135i when they can have the 126i for thousands less, probably even have it fully loaded for less than the 135i base. Thats not a rhetorical question btw, I really want to hear you weigh in on that.

The 1 series is definitely meant to lure young people into a bimmer and hopefully get them hooked for life. Don't force it into only that corner though. Why won't it be judged on its speed? It already has been, every car is, and how in hell is that immature?

We like fast cars, so we are immature, I guess I'll go hang in my playpen with Michael Schumacher.

I was quoting another poster who said people will go to a Mitsu or Honda if the car is priced too high because they can get more bang for their buck in speed and acceleration. I like speed too, but I also like the braking, tightness, handling, and the total package a BMW provides, so for me their is no comparision to a Honda or a Mitsu, just because one is faster than the other. I think the younger people might disagree, but for me its not only about how fast a car is in a straight line.

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by djminkin

That wasnt me that said that. I was told the car will be around 3K cheaper than the 335. Im hoping its more like 5 or 6 cheaper.

Nevermind then. For some reason I got you two confused... :redface:

To respond to your original post, when you produce a car highly geared towards the enthusiast, it is only natural to have performance be the leading factor in the decision process. That's how you get comparisons like the EVO and STi against the 135i.

[Idealistic]

Originally Posted by djminkin

I was quoting another poster who said people will go to a Mitsu or Honda if the car is priced too high because they can get more bang for their buck in speed and acceleration. I like speed too, but I also like the braking, tightness, handling, and the total package a BMW provides, so for me their is no comparision to a Honda or a Mitsu, just because one is faster than the other. I think the younger people might disagree, but for me its not only about how fast a car is in a straight line.

On that I agree completely. On paper the BMW and Evo might compare, but the BMW will always feel sturdier and have a better personality, less rattles, etc. I was just stating that a lot of people are ignorant of those things and BMW will need to strive to make the car look better on paper by keeping the price as low as they can. That potential buyer that is initially comparing the 135 and the Evo X might never give the 135 a chance if its 5k more even if it may be the better car.

Another thing to note is that, while some people are after a total package car, I find the vast majority to only be concerned about 0-60 times and HP. Most people are totally ignorant about cars, you hardly ever hear anything about torque or quarter mile times in car commercials even those those are also very important if you want the full picture of how fast a car is in a strait line. I can't remember ever hearing about ski pad times or traction limits, simply because of the fact that most car buyers don't car and will never reach those limits anyway.

Thats why strait line speed comes up so often. It's the easiest to quantify and understand, especially for the American market. C'mon, the largest motor sport here is NASCAR. It reflects (on the surface) superiority in top speed rather than extreme handling and car control like F1 and Rally.

I wouldn't knock the Evo in handling, tightness, or braking though. They IXs are pretty amazing cars in that regard.

[Rhep]

Originally Posted by djminkin

I was quoting another poster who said people will go to a Mitsu or Honda if the car is priced too high because they can get more bang for their buck in speed and acceleration. I like speed too, but I also like the braking, tightness, handling, and the total package a BMW provides, so for me their is no comparision to a Honda or a Mitsu, just because one is faster than the other. I think the younger people might disagree, but for me its not only about how fast a car is in a straight line.

The Evo can handle too, I hear it can also brake quite well, seems to be on the rise with interior quality also.

"We applaud the move wholeheartedly, much preferring the smooth and fast-reacting dual-clutch to BMW’s jerky and much-slower single-clutch sequential manual." ~ Car and Driver

"The Evo X is expected to go on sale in Japan in September, with U.S. and European launches slated for early 2008. This new, larger and more sophisticated Evo X might not be the rally-bred car we remember, but its sophisticated all-wheel-drive performance should shame its competitors, whether they come from Europe or Japan." ~ Edumnds


Gotta have a first post sometime, eh?

[Idealistic]

Originally Posted by Rhep

The Evo can handle too, I hear it can also brake quite well, seems to be on the rise with interior quality also.

"We applaud the move wholeheartedly, much preferring the smooth and fast-reacting dual-clutch to BMW’s jerky and much-slower single-clutch sequential manual." ~ Car and Driver

"The Evo X is expected to go on sale in Japan in September, with U.S. and European launches slated for early 2008. This new, larger and more sophisticated Evo X might not be the rally-bred car we remember, but its sophisticated all-wheel-drive performance should shame its competitors, whether they come from Europe or Japan." ~ Edumnds


Gotta have a first post sometime, eh?

Dual clutch is an awesome technology (im driving one right now), but I much prefer the feel of a manual. I am very interested to see how all the computer controlled handling features effect the feel of the car.

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

As a young professional acceleration is very important to me as well as the other creature comforts.

you got that right friend....i want the exhileration of being planted to my seat from standing still to 80 mph, or from 30mph-90mph.....i really dont care about going over 100 mph, since i'll get my ass handed to me by those crafty FHP....

[Mr. E]

Just thought I would share this. I went by the BMW dealership out here in SoCal yesterday to look at a used 335i and here is what I was told by the manager there. He said the 135i and 128i wont be within a few thousand dollars of the 335i and 328i. Just as there is a $10k difference between the 335i/328i and 535i/528i, he said to expect a wider gap, especially since the 1 is an entry level. They are pretty sure the 128i will be around $27-$28k and the 135i to be around $32-$33k but markups could have the 135i going closer to $40k.

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

135i to be around $32-$33k but markups could have the 135i going closer to $40k.

dealer infused markups or options?....a dealer that marks up a car over MSRP will never get my business....

[Mr. E]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

dealer infused markups or options?....a dealer that marks up a car over MSRP will never get my business....

Must be nice to live where you do then. Markeups are everywhere out here in southern Cali with many makes. I have seen 335i's marked up as high as $48k. Rarely do you see them at MSRP which is why I was there looking at a used one.

[gbent]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Just thought I would share this. I went by the BMW dealership out here in SoCal yesterday to look at a used 335i and here is what I was told by the manager there. He said the 135i and 128i wont be within a few thousand dollars of the 335i and 328i. Just as there is a $10k difference between the 335i/328i and 535i/528i, he said to expect a wider gap, especially since the 1 is an entry level. They are pretty sure the 128i will be around $27-$28k and the 135i to be around $32-$33k but markups could have the 135i going closer to $40k.

Well, as long as we're going down this agonising road again, I'll share my story from yesterdays visit to the dealership.

My sales guy, (who is really a pretty straight shooter), freely admitted that he has no more firm pricing info than anyone else, but says that he got a pretty strong indication from the BMW NA reps at their 135i first look (whatever they call it), that a nicely equipped
135i was going to be in the $35k range.:iono:

Please spare me the sarcastic comments from all of the $37/38k base people out there. I'm only telling you what one more salesman feels about pricing.

[Mr. E]

Originally Posted by gbent

that a nicely equipped
135i was going to be in the $35k range.:iono:

Please spare me the sarcastic comments from all of the $37/38k base people out there. I'm only telling you what one more salesman feels about pricing.

Yep. No way they will price a 135i right under the same price the 335i goes just like they didnt price the 335i right under the 535i, would be pointless. There are $8k-$10k gaps between 328/335i and 528/535i, logic would say about the same for the 1 series/3 series.

[gbent]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Yep. No way they will price a 135i right under the same price the 335i goes just like they didnt price the 335i right under the 535i, would be pointless. There are $8k-$10k gaps between 328/335i and 528/535i, logic would say about the same for the 1 series/3 series.

I sure hope you're right!:thumbup:

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Yep. No way they will price a 135i right under the same price the 335i goes just like they didnt price the 335i right under the 535i, would be pointless. There are $8k-$10k gaps between 328/335i and 528/535i, logic would say about the same for the 1 series/3 series.

There is a large difference between a 5 and a 3. Not so much between a 1 and three. My guess is somewhere in between that 3-5K cheaper.

[E82tt6]

IMO, the 135i will start within $2,000 of $34,850.

Why? If you look at pricing for the car everywhere else in the world, it's about 18-25% less than a 335i, starting. $34,850 is 18% difference. $31,181 is 25%. The lowest I could see is 12% difference, and that's $36,586.

Also, this car is DEFINITELY competing with Evo, STi, R32, etc.

You MAY see a magazine comparo with the G37, but that car is really aimed squarely at the 3 series.

350Z would be a better comparison. Mustang also, and RX-8. Even the Volvo C30 and Accord/Altima could end up being compared, depending on the market segment.

I see two potential buyers for this car.
1.) Kids looking for something cheap, and cool, with nice stuff and decent power. The 128i will be very popular with this crowd.
2.) The enthusiast buyer, looking for an entertaining driving experience, sub-14sec quarter mile, with excellent handling, and good aftermarket support, without too much excess weight or other BS. However, they are still looking for a car comfortable enough to be a DD, and maybe carry a friend and weekends worth of luggage, or a couple people in a pinch. Sub-$40k.

The only other cars I see that fit clearly into the same class are the Mustang, 350Z, STi, Evo, R32, and perhaps the G37.

The G37 weighs a good 600lbs+ more, and is much more technology and feature rich, while offering a less entertaining driving experience.

I was debating G37, Sti, Evo. I ended up on the 135i. Probably more fun to drive than any of the above, big aftermarket potential, and still probably a bit better dailey than the Sti or Evo.

I don't know exact pricing, but looking at pricing everywhere else in the world, I'd bet that it'll fall between 30k and 36k

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Must be nice to live where you do then.

My friends here who know the South FLA market know that probably except for Cali, most BMWs are sold here....thus, this is the land of the markup......just for your edification, I live here 'cause i basically have to, so no i dont consider it nice.....I just wont pay a markup...I will however pay MSRP, which I've never done for a car....but if the dealers get cute and sell over MSRP,I'll wait instead.....

[Mr. E]

Originally Posted by E82TT6

1.) Kids looking for something cheap, and cool, with nice stuff and decent power. The 128i will be very popular with this crowd.

I agree with most of what you said but I think the kids looking for cheap power will go with a new Mustang GT. 300hp/320tq for under $25k and an engine that gets tons more power with cheap bolt-ons is what they would opt for most likely. Believe it or not, there are alot of enthusiasts who just want power and a nice drive, dont need heated seats and all the other luxury crap. Thats how I am, if I want luxury, I'll buy a loaded Accord. If I want power, I'll buy something with a nice engine that makes alot of it.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by E82TT6

IMO, the 135i will start within $2,000 of $34,850.

Why? If you look at pricing for the car everywhere else in the world, it's about 18-25% less than a 335i, starting. $34,850 is 18% difference. $31,181 is 25%. The lowest I could see is 12% difference, and that's $36,586.

You're working with pricing that was developed some time ago. The USD is getting getting pimpslapped right now and though BMW says they're well hedged through '08, we should expect to see some impact on new pricing. Your percentages may no longer be valid...

[djminkin]

Thats right.... When my salesman took my application he told me the car will be sold at MSRP not over sticker, like some think, and I am also in South Florida.

[SmoothStyle1]

Wow, I’d love to see the look on the BMW representatives faces if they ever were to read this thread!

The fact that we have generated well over 100 posts on the very topic of 135 pricing is proof that demand will outpace supply.

Here’s what I gathered in skimming the posts on this thread regarding the 135i pricing:

1) There is no way that the base price will be less than 33K

2) Most of us are expecting the starting price to be between 33K – 36K, which would not raise any eyebrows.

3) BMW would be making a grave mistake if the pricing for a 135i starts at or above 36K (which would mean 40K+ with the addition of a sport, or premium package).

What has me worried is that with this much apparent demand, BMW will be able to raise the starting price of the 135i (to ward off those not seriously committed to the car), and still probably sell out of most or all of their inventory.

For Christ’s sake, why won’t they just release the bloody pricing and end this torturous debate!!!!!!!!!!

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by SmoothStyle1

The fact that we have generated well over 100 posts on the very topic of 135 pricing is proof that demand will outpace supply.

It's an internet board... we only represent a fraction of total demand. And if this thread raises some eyebrows at BMW, I can only imagine what BMW would have thought of Zweier's thread.

[SmoothStyle1]

Originally Posted by MPower

It's an internet board... we only represent a fraction of total demand. And if this thread raises some eyebrows at BMW, I can only imagine what BMW would have thought of Zweier's thread.

What was Zweier's thread about?