Faulty Logic Regarding 135i Pricing

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by SmoothStyle1

What was Zweier's thread about?

Starts here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...?t=306&page=13

Or, you could look up Zweier in the Members List and view all of his posts.

Originally Posted by hector

i'm touched that you're concerned about not offending Garrett. and pray tell; what is it that you like about the post?

I thought it was funny... do you know what as "sense of humor" is?

[Tijuana]

Originally Posted by hector

are you sure that it's only that? may i suggest that you display the courage of your convictions and write for all to see what it was that you truly liked about Garrett's post?

:iono:

What's everyone so touchy for? We have better things to fight about (i.e. how my theory on what the price should be and how BMW should come to that price is better than your theory and probably better than BMW's own method).

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by hector

are you sure that it's only that? may i suggest that you display the courage of your convictions and write for all to see what it was that you truly liked about Garrett's post?

Listen, you can grasp your pitchfork and scream bloody murder all you want. It's just a joke.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by Tijuana

:iono:

What's everyone so touchy for? We have better things to fight about (i.e. how my theory on what the price should be and how BMW should come to that price is better than your theory and probably better than BMW's own method).

I agree. IMO, this car should cost more than a 535i. It has the same engine, only it weighs a lot less and has a better chassis setup!

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by djminkin

Thats right.... When my salesman took my application he told me the car will be sold at MSRP not over sticker, like some think, and I am also in South Florida.

That's good news considering I'm buying from the same dealer as you (as long as they have my car)

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by SmoothStyle1

The fact that we have generated well over 100 posts on the very topic of 135 pricing is proof that demand will outpace supply.

I don't know why I have missed this thread so far.

I guess using your logic, and seeing the amount of traffic that NASIOC gets and the number of participants there, (which is orders of magnitude more than what you see here) every single Subaru sold in the states would go well above the sticker price. The same argument can be made for VWs, Hondas, Mazdas, etc.

100 replies in a few days on an internet car forum about a performance car means nothing.

What does shock me is that there are people that seriously argue that the 1 can cost as much as or more than the 3 and that would still make sense. I mean, yeah, you wouldn't be here if you didn't like the car, but you guys need to get your reality checked once in a while. There needs to be a limit to fanboism.

And it's not even like the 1 is completely new, it has been an entry level BMW in Europe for three years already. Why are we suddenly questioning its market position relative to the 3? Just because we get a top of the line version that has the same engine as a top of the line 3 doesn't suddenly make it an ///M car. The lower numbered BMW with the same engine will always perform better than the higher numbered one. How powerful the N54 is completely irrelevant to this, as the 1 is not the only car to get it. Sure the 135i will be a beast, but the 335i is also a beast that destroys every competition. And so is the 535i. So we have what, 3 different secret ///M cars now?

I'd be really pissed if this is another one of the "clever" BMW marketing strategies.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

That's good news considering I'm buying from the same dealer as you (as long as they have my car)

Its almost as if they dont have room for mark-ups. It'll be in 335i territory and that'll be just silly because its an entirely different class or car.

Its like the markups of an E Class benz heading into S class territories. Aint gonna happen. At least I hope...

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

Its almost as if they dont have room for mark-ups. It'll be in 335i territory and that'll be just silly because its an entirely different class or car.

Its like the markups of an E Class benz heading into S class territories. Aint gonna happen. At least I hope...

well at base 35K MSRP I fear there would be markup BS and still be below 335.....my logic's been since reading the original poster's comments that 135 base would be 37k+ is that when options added at MSRP, and with 335 coupes being discounted below MSRP, there wont be much price difference between the 2....

:iono:

[emm3tt]

This thread needs to be locked. :wink:

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by spinzero

I don't know why I have missed this thread so far.

I guess using your logic, and seeing the amount of traffic that NASIOC gets and the number of participants there, (which is orders of magnitude more than what you see here) every single Subaru sold in the states would go well above the sticker price. The same argument can be made for VWs, Hondas, Mazdas, etc.

100 replies in a few days on an internet car forum about a performance car means nothing.

What does shock me is that there are people that seriously argue that the 1 can cost as much as or more than the 3 and that would still make sense. I mean, yeah, you wouldn't be here if you didn't like the car, but you guys need to get your reality checked once in a while. There needs to be a limit to fanboism.

And it's not even like the 1 is completely new, it has been an entry level BMW in Europe for three years already. Why are we suddenly questioning its market position relative to the 3? Just because we get a top of the line version that has the same engine as a top of the line 3 doesn't suddenly make it an ///M car. The lower numbered BMW with the same engine will always perform better than the higher numbered one. How powerful the N54 is completely irrelevant to this, as the 1 is not the only car to get it. Sure the 135i will be a beast, but the 335i is also a beast that destroys every competition. And so is the 535i. So we have what, 3 different secret ///M cars now?

I'd be really pissed if this is another one of the "clever" BMW marketing strategies.

I think BMW's strategy for the 1 in the states is completely different than in Europe. I believe this because of the number of different 1's they offer over there, compared to only bringing the coupe and convertible with two engine choices here in the states. Not sure why BMW is doing this, but you can bet a nicely equipped 135 will only be slightly under a nicely equipped 335. Maybe down the road, if the car is a success, they will offer more options and variations of the car at a better price point.

[gbent]

Originally Posted by djminkin

I think BMW's strategy for the 1 in the states is completely different than in Europe. I believe this because of the number of different 1's they offer over there, compared to only bringing the coupe and convertible with two engine choices here in the states. Not sure why BMW is doing this, but you can bet a nicely equipped 135 will only be slightly under a nicely equipped 335. Maybe down the road, if the car is a success, they will offer more options and variations of the car at a better price point.

I don't think the lack of engine choices has anything to do with their marketing plan in the US. We never get the same engines as the rest of the world, so why would that make a difference now?

[Khobin~]

Originally Posted by gbent

I don't think the lack of engine choices has anything to do with their marketing plan in the US. We never get the same engines as the rest of the world, so why would that make a difference now?

Well the early literature from BMW said that they weren't bringing over a 4 cyl. model because they didn't think americans would buy it(based on the 318i flop).

That combined with the fact that VW is the ONLY car company that's really brought deisels to the N.A. market place, in anything other then a huge ass truck, leaves only the I-6's for BMW...A mixed blessing because now even the "mere" 128i will still haul some ass

Who knows, maybe in a few years we'll start to see the deisels...but I wouldn't count on them being any cheaper then the 128...:iono:

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by Khobin~

Well the early literature from BMW said that they weren't bringing over a 4 cyl. model because they didn't think americans would buy it(based on the 318i flop).:iono:

they got that right.....

[Jerome10]

I'm not quite through all 8 pages yet, but in 5 I don't think I've read anything about the Euro kicking the crap out of the US Dollar.

The bigger that gap gets, the more BMW (or any other manufacturer building cars in Europe and importing into the US) is going to have to jack up the price to compensate.

Last I heard, the trend of stronger Euro + weaker USD is expected to continue. This is a serious issue, particularly in an "entry" model where razor-thin (though maybe not in BMW's case) profits can be erased pretty quickly by the worsening exchange rate.

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by Jerome10

I'm not quite through all 8 pages yet, but in 5 I don't think I've read anything about the Euro kicking the crap out of the US Dollar.

The bigger that gap gets, the more BMW (or any other manufacturer building cars in Europe and importing into the US) is going to have to jack up the price to compensate.

Last I heard, the trend of stronger Euro + weaker USD is expected to continue. This is a serious issue, particularly in an "entry" model where razor-thin (though maybe not in BMW's case) profits can be erased pretty quickly by the worsening exchange rate.

Yes I agree with this, and if they do not assemble the car in America, the price could shock everyone. The euro now is 1.40 to our dollar, thats a huge difference, and the only way BMW is going to offset that is by either building or assembling the car in the states, and that doesnt seem likely with the first year production. People who think the car is going to be 10K cheaper than the 3 series are dreaming.

[Technic]

The way I see the potential pricing of specifically the 135i Coupe is that BMW itself is placing itself into a corner if its price is more that $35,000 MSRP. If this is true, then how much is going to be the 135i Convertible, $40,000+?

When a 328i Convertible MSRP is $44,000, I don't think that pricing the 135i Convertible a few grands away from it will make any business sense, with that 328i hardtop (notwithstanding the twin turbo engine). :iono:

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by djminkin

Yes I agree with this, and if they do not assemble the car in America, the price could shock everyone. The euro now is 1.40 to our dollar, thats a huge difference, and the only way BMW is going to offset that is by either building or assembling the car in the states, and that doesnt seem likely with the first year production. People who think the car is going to be 10K cheaper than the 3 series are dreaming.

there are efficiencies and hedges(135 is new car but not new engine, lower R&D cost) that BMWs beancounters employ that offset the Euro imbalance to ensure that pricing is stabilized...US is a big market for BMW and I doubt they would let the volatility of the $ vs Euro impact ultimate pricing, which is directly tied to marketing and sales......Thus, IMO the Euro against dollar factor is not as big an impact as one might think....

I still think 35k base and I'll be willing to bet 10 euro:wink:, or ? US

[Dunbar]

Here are a couple of other factors to consider regarding the weak US dollar and its effect on pricing:

-Since a lot of the parts are shared with the 3 series (and the engines are shared with the 5 series), the unit cost to manufacture those parts will drop due to efficiencies of scale. This will mean that BMW makes more of a profit on the 3 series which would allow them to charge a lower price on the 1 series and still be profitable.

-BMW builds cars in the US and I'm sure buys a lot of parts from US suppliers. This allows them to spend US dollars in the US and avoid having to convert to another currency at a weak exchange rate. I'm not suggesting they can spend all of the US revenue here, but even just some of it would offset the effect of the poor exchange rate.

Then of course there is the fact that the US is a very competitive automotive market. If BMW wants to meet their sales targets they have to charge a price that consumers are willing to pay.

[joeyusc]

I hope that I am not spoiling the fun by providing this information. I visited my local BMW dealership earlier today in regards to ordering a 1 series. They plan to start taking orders in January of 2008, with a two-three month arrival time. With respect to pricing, the salesmen informed me that the 128i is going to start at around 27K-28.5K and the 135i is going to start at 32.5K. He predicted a price of around 37-38K after options, etc. for the 135i. Notably, they anticipate that the 135i w/options will be the same price as a lower priced 328i w/options (37-38ish depending on options). When you consider the competition of the 1 series, and the future arrival of the convertible, these prices make sense, not to mention that my sources are credible. Feel free to give your dealership a call if you question these numbers. They seemed open about providing preliminary info on prices. I also don't understand the reasoning of those who have projected a 35K starting price for the 135i. The A3(S), although not as powerful as the 135i, is starting at 35K, and is fairly larger than the 135i. The 135i seems to be somewhere in between an A1 (S)-not out yet-and predicted to be almost exactly the same size as the 1-series, and an A3(S)-probably closer to an A3(S)-supporting the 32.5K quote I got from the dealership. I will be ordering one for sure. I asked the salesman if I could order a 128i w/sports kit. He is going to get back to me when he has the answer. If I can order a 128i with/sports kit, I may forgo the extra 3-5K for a 135i. What do you guys think? Save on insurance with the 128i and still go 0-60 in about 5.9ish.

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

there are efficiencies and hedges(135 is new car but not new engine, lower R&D cost) that BMWs beancounters employ that offset the Euro imbalance to ensure that pricing is stabilized...US is a big market for BMW and I doubt they would let the volatility of the $ vs Euro impact ultimate pricing, which is directly tied to marketing and sales......Thus, IMO the Euro against dollar factor is not as big an impact as one might think....

I still think 35k base and I'll be willing to bet 10 euro:wink:, or ? US

Even though I heard 3k less than the coupe, I have said and still think the base is going to come in around 35 and change. That way a nicely equipped 135 can be had right at or slightly under 40, and will be satisfactory enough for everyone I believe. I cant see the base only being 3K difference.

[sethchan]

The 335i gets better highway gas mileage that the 135i. :-(

[TunedM2C]

Originally Posted by sethchan

The 335i gets better highway gas mileage that the 135i. :-(

And your have evidence to back this statement up is where?