Some Questions on the N54

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

This probably won't happen for a while being that so much is being squeezed out of the stock turbos at the present by the ECU tuners. Plus, there really isn't that much physical room in the engine bay to pack anything much bigger in without some very expensive remodeling. Besides, do you really think you'll need more than 423 hp/397 tq? :wink:

Not a lot of room? That's too bad.

Do I need more power? No. Do I want more power? Yes.:biggrin:

In all honesty, 400+whp is perfect. But, I'm still curious as to what the possibilities are. What about a better manifold? Or, are the stock turbos and the manifolds one piece?

[cuizhuoyi01]

This is a new car, so not many mod for this car.but I'm sure some turbo kit and others will come up later.

[Oregon]

Relative to the N54, this is an absolute Must Read - http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Not a lot of room? That's too bad.

Do I need more power? No. Do I want more power? Yes.:biggrin:

In all honesty, 400+whp is perfect. But, I'm still curious as to what the possibilities are. What about a better manifold? Or, are the stock turbos and the manifolds one piece?

The problem is you have to run race gas to get that kind of power. I don't know many people that run race gas all year, etc. I did run 100 octane for about a year straight in my S4 but that's another story.

WIth this car, I see tuners coming out with a good tune for water injection to net near race gas power on 93 octane. I also foresee the compressor housings being machined for larger compressor wheels. I know that could be done for less than $500 per turbo, if physically possible.

[audi2bmw1]

^^^ yes im a huge fan of water/meth injection...its great stuff....devils own makes a great progressive and all digital controller that i had on my audi tt...pretty easy install...hardest part was making it a clean install(did) and soldering the tiny ass MAP sensor voltage wire to the bigger wire that comes with the kit...lol made a great connection and never had any issues....you can def feel the difference when your spraying and not spraying

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

The problem is you have to run race gas to get that kind of power. I don't know many people that run race gas all year, etc. I did run 100 octane for about a year straight in my S4 but that's another story.

WIth this car, I see tuners coming out with a good tune for water injection to net near race gas power on 93 octane. I also foresee the compressor housings being machined for larger compressor wheels. I know that could be done for less than $500 per turbo, if physically possible.

So, with the current "chips" and tunes, you have to run race gas to get 400whp? That's a bit dissapointing to hear. I would never run anything higher than 93 Octane.

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

^^^ yes im a huge fan of water/meth injection...its great stuff....devils own makes a great progressive and all digital controller that i had on my audi tt...pretty easy install...hardest part was making it a clean install(did) and soldering the tiny ass MAP sensor voltage wire to the bigger wire that comes with the kit...lol made a great connection and never had any issues....you can def feel the difference when your spraying and not spraying

I'm not a fan of water/meth injection. I sort of view it as a band-aid solution. And it just adds more hassle.

So basically, as things stand right now, you can get exhaust, down pipes, intercooler, intake, and chip/tune which would yield just below 400whp (maybe) on pump gas and 400 or slightly higher on race gas? And since it's a fairly new car, nobody has done anything more...like a different turbo setup or the like?

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Surname

Relative to the N54, this is an absolute Must Read - http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901

Thanks. I think that was one of the first threads I read when I joined this board. Good stuff.

[audi2bmw1]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

So, with the current "chips" and tunes, you have to run race gas to get 400whp? That's a bit dissapointing to hear. I would never run anything higher than 93 Octane.



I'm not a fan of water/meth injection. I sort of view it as a band-aid solution. And it just adds more hassle.

So basically, as things stand right now, you can get exhaust, down pipes, intercooler, intake, and chip/tune which would yield just below 400whp (maybe) on pump gas and 400 or slightly higher on race gas? And since it's a fairly new car, nobody has done anything more...like a different turbo setup or the like?

what do you mean band aid solution?? do you know how water/meth injection works? if you did i dont think you would view it as a weak mod....it has no ill side effects and isnt a "hassle" by any means

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

what do you mean band aid solution?? do you know how water/meth injection works? if you did i dont think you would view it as a weak mod....it has no ill side effects and isnt a "hassle" by any means

That's fine, you have every right to disagree. But, there are some people out there who think a properly built and tuned engine shouldn't need water/meth injection. But, it would certainly depend on the specific applicaiton and goals of the builder/driver and how/why water/meth injection is being used to begin with. Some people use it as a band-aid to fix problems that could be solved in other, more efficient ways. Some people don't. It all depends. My original statement was a sweeping generalization, I know. So, I apologize for that.

However, I think simplicity is key. Adding another system onto an engine just increases the possiblity of something malfunctioning. There is no reason a 400-500hp turbo charged engine should need water/meth injection as long as other precautions are taken and the engine is built properly to handle the power. If you're talking about running insane amounts of power and boost through an engine like the N54 then, depending on the specific variables, I can see where water/meth injection MIGHT be needed. But, have there actually been examples of high-powered N54's to show this?

Obvioulsy, nobody WANTS pre-detonation and people are going to do whatever they can to prevent it. But, slapping a water injection system onto a car that shouldn't need it in the first place is a band-aid solution...to some people.

There are different methods to accomplish the same end result. If you feel you'd rather use something like water injection rather than seeking out other methods, that's fine with me.

[audi2bmw1]

haha^ i know of all the other methods sir(lol) FMIC is a big factor in fighting heat...it has far more benefits than most "cooling mods" such as a so called CAI(not really possible on a turbo charged car) things like a phenolic material intake manifold gasket also help fight heat. water/meth has many benefits which you can read up on herehttp://www.alcohol-injection.com/

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

haha^ i know of all the other methods sir(lol) FMIC is a big factor in fighting heat...it has far more benefits than most "cooling mods" such as a so called CAI(not really possible on a turbo charged car) things like a phenolic material intake manifold gasket also help fight heat. water/meth has many benefits which you can read up on herehttp://www.alcohol-injection.com/

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I don't really feel like bickering back and forth. I'm just here to find out more about the 135i before I make the decision to purchase one.

[audi2bmw1]

^^ just go drive it some more and make your decision...speaking in a non-bias manner ...i love cars..all types..driven most pacific muscle cars..including toyota supras,nissan 300zx twin turbo,3000GT,240sx, lexus is300,infinity g35, STI and EVOs etc etc i can keep going....point is the 135i "impressed" me the most out of all the above cars..if you really think the steering and pedal feel is that bad then i dont know what to tell you...as i have no complaints in the way the car drives at all...so if you want to hold on to your is300 and are fine with that cars power level then KEEP IT...i can assure you this N54 motor is just being "unlocked" and time will tell what all its capable of...

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

^^ just go drive it some more and make your decision...speaking in a non-bias manner ...i love cars..all types..driven most pacific muscle cars..including toyota supras,nissan 300zx twin turbo,3000GT,240sx, lexus is300,infinity g35, STI and EVOs etc etc i can keep going....point is the 135i "impressed" me the most out of all the above cars..if you really think the steering and pedal feel is that bad then i dont know what to tell you...as i have no complaints in the way the car drives at all...so if you want to hold on to your is300 and are fine with that cars power level then KEEP IT...i can assure you this N54 motor is just being "unlocked" and time will tell what all its capable of...

I never said the 135i had "bad" steering/pedal feel. But, considering all the hype BMW gets for having amazing car/driver feedback, I left a bit disappointed; especially since a lot of people have been saying the new 1 series is a throw-back to that amazing road-feel.

I have seen quite a few people, on these boards no less and who own 135i's, who feel the same as I.

None-the-less, the 135 is still at the top of my list.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

I'm new to the forum and I've been doing some research on the 135i since I'm thinking about selling my IS300 for one within the next 6 months or so.

Like I've said, I am using the search function to read through other threads. But, if anybody has some quick and dirty answers for me, that'd be great.

1. Does anybody know how much power/torque the stock manual tranny can handle? Clutch?

2. Same question for the block/head/internals.

3. What is the most power anybody has heard the N54 make on stock block/head/turbos?

4. What can the stock fuel system handle in terms of providing enough fuel while upping boost? I don't think there are any aftermarket high-flow fuel pumps for this car since it is direct injeciton, correct?

Would it be that difficult to reach about 400whp on the 135i with stock turbos? Or, is that a pipe dream?

I'm comming from a car with the 2JZ-GE, which is a decent starting point. However, forced induction on my car costs a lot since the stock ECU can't compensate for boost.

I really like the 135i. But, I'd like to know all my options before I go out and buy one.

Have you checked out the C&D Lightning Lap? The 135i held up pretty well against some good competition. I don't think you'll regret your decision. The car gets better and better and as others have mentioned, there are a lot more mods coming out.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=Lightning+lap

[raolc]

On 93 octance its pretty easy to get 380whp with basic mods.

3 grand gets you a tune, intake, downpipes, exhaust which will easily have you running around 380whp if not more

I have a set up like that, I'll be dynoing the car pretty soon, but it defintely feels like almost 400rwhp.

And my feather weight I meant how you can turn the steering wheel with one finger. I like the stiff feel in the bmw, really makes it a driver's car.

But ya, I'm sure you will be really happy with the 135i, the mods you can get for the n54 are cheap and offer huge gains for the most part. I think my set up with an intercooler should put me at right about 400rwhp.

[FourT6and2]

Thanks for the info.

I was also just made aware of the fact that I could get a brand new Z4 M Coupe for about the same price as a 135i...

Tempting.

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Thanks for the info.

I was also just made aware of the fact that I could get a brand new Z4 M Coupe for about the same price as a 135i...

Tempting.

But not nearly as tunable for the price, being that you seem so keen on tuning your cars :wink: I recently went to the track with a friend that has a Z4M coupe; he couldn't lose me in the twisties and as soon as that straight away came up, he was being passed.

Plus you lose a lot of practicality in regards to cargo room and no backseat. If you want to keep the Z4M on your list, I'd wait until this Spring to see what BMW has in store for the new model. I would guess they won't be able to resist putting the n54 in the Z. Now that would be tempting!

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Thanks for the info.

I was also just made aware of the fact that I could get a brand new Z4 M Coupe for about the same price as a 135i...

Tempting.

Not bad but I wouldn't do it. The current M engine isn't turbo and they're putting the V-8 engine in the new Z4M. THe new one having a V-8 might hurt resale of the current model.

[bmwzone]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Thanks for the info.

I was also just made aware of the fact that I could get a brand new Z4 M Coupe for about the same price as a 135i...

Tempting.

2008 Z4 M Coupes are going for 36k? Wow.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

2008 Z4 M Coupes are going for 36k? Wow.

a loaded 135i is around 45k

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

Not bad but I wouldn't do it. The current M engine isn't turbo and they're putting the V-8 engine in the new Z4M. THe new one having a V-8 might hurt resale of the current model.

I don't really care about resale at this point.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

2008 Z4 M Coupes are going for 36k? Wow.

Dealers are offering $7,500 in trunk money plus they selling for 12-15 grand under MSRP because nobody is buying them. I just talked to somoene who go one for around 40k.