BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-07-2009, 08:36 AM   #23
sparoz
Brigadier General
sparoz's Avatar
Australia
142
Rep
4,849
Posts

Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

iTrader: (0)

Something I noticed today in DTC - and I found it potentially more dangerous than have everything off. I thought it's time to play when the road is wet, but I ended up over adjusting twice with DTC on. As I detect slippage, I react by counter steering, and all I ended up is on the other lane still facing the same way! I induced the oversteer, so I was expecting it and I made sure there's no cars around just in case, but what I didn't expect was that it brings traction back very quickly, and I basically going to the next lane.

I am thinking may be I just shouldn't do anything and hold the line and let the computer to do the work, but then again - not sure if I am going to try again...
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White
1///M - Valencia Orange
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 09:03 AM   #24
///Mike135i
Private First Class
England
4
Rep
116
Posts

Drives: E82 M 135i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berkshire, England

iTrader: (0)

I have found that the lack of mechanic LSD will give this affect too.

My 325i coupe used to snap back in terribly in comparison to the sideways Nirvana that my M3's used to afford me.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 06:08 PM   #25
AussieRacer
Major
AussieRacer's Avatar
Australia
16
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aust

iTrader: (0)

sparoz, just a thought, but if you felt as though you needed that much op lock to correct, without DTC it was likely you were about to loop it....
__________________
Current: 135i Auto, Le Mans Blue - w/ Bridgestone RE-11 rears, GP Thunder 7500k angels, & "golf tee" mod plus a few M3 suspension bits and pieces...
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 06:37 PM   #26
Taymaishu
Banned
Australia
104
Rep
3,020
Posts

Drives: I love massive black cocks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in my ass and around my mouth

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 125i  [2.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post

I am thinking may be I just shouldn't do anything and hold the line and let the computer to do the work, but then again - not sure if I am going to try again...
Unfortunately, that's what it's there for.

Dumbass drivers who can't control their car in the wet and who won't oversteer with a heel/toe to bring the car back.

I had a similar situation in my WRX without TC on, going around a roundabout in the wet. I lost the front wheels, close to hard lock, sliding straight forward in a right hand turn. I quickly handbraked with a little force of right-pedal and the car came back very nicely.

Put someone who doesn't understand car dynamics in that situation and they'll floor the brake and slide into the barrier.

Hence, DTC is born.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 08:07 PM   #27
MickyD
(Damned or Belated)
7
Rep
499
Posts

Drives: Le Mans Blue 120D M Manual
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seaford, Vic.

iTrader: (0)

I wonder how long it will be before insurance companies start denying claims if they find the ASC/DSC/DTC/XYZ is turned off at the time of the accident.....
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 08:29 PM   #28
BMWRX
Major
BMWRX's Avatar
Australia
81
Rep
1,096
Posts

Drives: F82 M4 CP
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW M4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taymaishu View Post
Put someone who doesn't understand car dynamics in that situation and they'll floor the brake and slide into the barrier.

Hence, DTC is born.
And yet, driver training sessions I've been to teach that the best thing to do in that situation is mash your brake pedal through the firewall.

What you did is all fine and dandy if you have been to an LVMA day or two and understand how your particular car will handle (however, it sounds like you made a big mistake at the start of the roundabout and ploughed into the corner way too hard). Nevertheless, the majority of drivers out there have a) never used their handbrake other than to stop their car rolling into the loungeroom, and b) don't have the confidence to do such a maneouvre on the streets (and in my viewpoint, no one should really be throwing handbrake turns on the streets anyway), so standing on the anchors and letting ABS do its magic, back up the car embarrassed, and live to fight another day, is probably the best option.
__________________
2017 BMW M4 Competition - Mineral Grey
2009 BMW 135i - Titan Silver - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 08:31 PM   #29
MickyD
(Damned or Belated)
7
Rep
499
Posts

Drives: Le Mans Blue 120D M Manual
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seaford, Vic.

iTrader: (0)

well said.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 08:53 PM   #30
Taymaishu
Banned
Australia
104
Rep
3,020
Posts

Drives: I love massive black cocks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in my ass and around my mouth

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 125i  [2.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWRX View Post
And yet, driver training sessions I've been to teach that the best thing to do in that situation is mash your brake pedal through the firewall.

What you did is all fine and dandy if you have been to an LVMA day or two and understand how your particular car will handle (however, it sounds like you made a big mistake at the start of the roundabout and ploughed into the corner way too hard). Nevertheless, the majority of drivers out there have a) never used their handbrake other than to stop their car rolling into the loungeroom, and b) don't have the confidence to do such a maneouvre on the streets (and in my viewpoint, no one should really be throwing handbrake turns on the streets anyway), so standing on the anchors and letting ABS do its magic, back up the car embarrassed, and live to fight another day, is probably the best option.
I completely agree with everything you said - and yes, it's self-evident that I was going too fast as i lost traction (however it's not like I was hammering).

It's not like i'm disagreeing with you at all - quite the opposite. DTC was born for those people (the ultimate majority by a long way) who don't use driving dynamics to pull themselves out of tricky situations.

However.. There was one situation where using the handbrake (and a huge amount of strength) has possibly saved my life. In that same car, i had a blowout on the M2 freeway in Sydney, after the M2 Tunnel. The front left went, and the wheel reefed itself to the left, aiming me straight at the left concrete barrier. I jammed the brake as a matter of reaction, but as i was doing 100km/h (legal limit there), and due to the shredding of the tyre, i wasn't stopping.

Right hand on the left side of the wheel, under one of the driving wheel 'spokes', and pulled the shit out of the wheel. Once over to the right, touched the handbrake up, fishtailed it back and slid into the brakedown bay.

It took me about 30 minutes to get my heart-rate down and an M2 patrol car came and helped me change the wheel after they saw it on CCTV out of the tunnel.

I was hesitant to drive for a week after that incident, but i firmly believe had i not pulled up the h-brake, i would have plowed into that wall.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 10:10 PM   #31
BMWRX
Major
BMWRX's Avatar
Australia
81
Rep
1,096
Posts

Drives: F82 M4 CP
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW M4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taymaishu View Post
I completely agree with everything you said - and yes, it's self-evident that I was going too fast as i lost traction (however it's not like I was hammering).

It's not like i'm disagreeing with you at all - quite the opposite. DTC was born for those people (the ultimate majority by a long way) who don't use driving dynamics to pull themselves out of tricky situations.

However.. There was one situation where using the handbrake (and a huge amount of strength) has possibly saved my life. In that same car, i had a blowout on the M2 freeway in Sydney, after the M2 Tunnel. The front left went, and the wheel reefed itself to the left, aiming me straight at the left concrete barrier. I jammed the brake as a matter of reaction, but as i was doing 100km/h (legal limit there), and due to the shredding of the tyre, i wasn't stopping.

Right hand on the left side of the wheel, under one of the driving wheel 'spokes', and pulled the shit out of the wheel. Once over to the right, touched the handbrake up, fishtailed it back and slid into the brakedown bay.

It took me about 30 minutes to get my heart-rate down and an M2 patrol car came and helped me change the wheel after they saw it on CCTV out of the tunnel.

I was hesitant to drive for a week after that incident, but i firmly believe had i not pulled up the h-brake, i would have plowed into that wall.
Understeering, handbrake turns around roundabouts and high speed tyre blowouts - it sounds like your driving life is one big Nascar event. I might have to pack a helmet if you ever offer me a lift.

If I was in the same situation, I'd still think maintaining traction with the road surface was the best option, so I'd give the handbrake a miss (I'd imagine as the front left was retarding your forward motion, that applying the handbrake may have the potential to throw you into a left hand spin). Anyway, you're still alive and kicking, so at the end of the day that's the most important thing (it's easy for me to dissect your actions now after the fact, but in the heat of the moment you did what you thought was the best thing and you walked away inscathed).

Ok, back on topic...........
__________________
2017 BMW M4 Competition - Mineral Grey
2009 BMW 135i - Titan Silver - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 10:47 PM   #32
Taymaishu
Banned
Australia
104
Rep
3,020
Posts

Drives: I love massive black cocks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in my ass and around my mouth

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 125i  [2.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWRX View Post
Understeering, handbrake turns around roundabouts and high speed tyre blowouts - it sounds like your driving life is one big Nascar event. I might have to pack a helmet if you ever offer me a lift.
I just like to enjoy the full range of driving experiences that my motor vehicles have to offer.

DTC is fantastic - especially for hill take-offs. My driveway is about 40 degrees (no shit), so going up in the morning especially after/during rain can be a huge pain. I will also usually sweep the driveway if there are leaves on it and it's been raining. DTC is always on - can't imagine what it would be like trying to go up that driveway without it!!!!
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 11:33 PM   #33
sparoz
Brigadier General
sparoz's Avatar
Australia
142
Rep
4,849
Posts

Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieRacer View Post
sparoz, just a thought, but if you felt as though you needed that much op lock to correct, without DTC it was likely you were about to loop it....
The fact is I didn't even have a chance to dial much in - it was:

- Throttle to induce oversteer
- Start to feel tail coming out - throttle off, start dialing the steering
- DTC light flashing after I just starting to dial in steering
- Car gone back into traction almost straight away and I just went where I was pointing..

The moral of the story is - not doing it again until I learn how to use DTC. Just don't have enough experience with the car in the conditions plus I just don't have enough experience.

The reason why I posted to start off with is that many people think DTC is the fun mode (may be in the dry or in a start line), but it is extremely dangerous when you have no idea how the system would behave. I guess I didn't think I would be in troble with DSC off and DTC on, but I could have been if I choose to be silly in the wrong traffic condition. Just a warning to everyone who thinks DTC mode = fun mode.

May be someone who has more experience with DTC mode can shed some light on how to make it fun. May be just holding the line and it'll do all the trick and let you slide a little bit but still hold the line - but then again.. that's just not fun either - it just burns more rubber.
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White
1///M - Valencia Orange
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2009, 11:53 PM   #34
Taymaishu
Banned
Australia
104
Rep
3,020
Posts

Drives: I love massive black cocks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in my ass and around my mouth

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 125i  [2.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
The fact is I didn't even have a chance to dial much in - it was:

- Throttle to induce oversteer
- Start to feel tail coming out - throttle off, start dialing the steering
- DTC light flashing after I just starting to dial in steering
- Car gone back into traction almost straight away and I just went where I was pointing..

The moral of the story is - not doing it again until I learn how to use DTC. Just don't have enough experience with the car in the conditions plus I just don't have enough experience.

The reason why I posted to start off with is that many people think DTC is the fun mode (may be in the dry or in a start line), but it is extremely dangerous when you have no idea how the system would behave. I guess I didn't think I would be in troble with DSC off and DTC on, but I could have been if I choose to be silly in the wrong traffic condition. Just a warning to everyone who thinks DTC mode = fun mode.

May be someone who has more experience with DTC mode can shed some light on how to make it fun. May be just holding the line and it'll do all the trick and let you slide a little bit but still hold the line - but then again.. that's just not fun either - it just burns more rubber.
I like you Sparoz. Your post made me nod.
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2009, 12:00 AM   #35
Zuzu
Major General
Zuzu's Avatar
Australia
218
Rep
7,437
Posts

Drives: LBB LCI M2
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWRX View Post
Understeering, handbrake turns around roundabouts and high speed tyre blowouts - it sounds like your driving life is one big Nascar event. I might have to pack a helmet if you ever offer me a lift.
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2009, 02:23 AM   #36
AussieRacer
Major
AussieRacer's Avatar
Australia
16
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aust

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
- Start to feel tail coming out - throttle off, start dialing the steering
And that's why she corrected too quickly. DTC ain't to blame there.
__________________
Current: 135i Auto, Le Mans Blue - w/ Bridgestone RE-11 rears, GP Thunder 7500k angels, & "golf tee" mod plus a few M3 suspension bits and pieces...
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2009, 02:45 AM   #37
aus135i
Captain
aus135i's Avatar
Australia
13
Rep
821
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SYD

iTrader: (0)

99% of the time i drive with that thing off! but that been said it did save me once in the rain when i was vs my frds cayman!
__________________
GONE 135i,E83X3,S1000RR,Megane RS250,M135i,F25X3
NOW F15X5,PXII Ranger,F80 M3
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2009, 03:32 AM   #38
sparoz
Brigadier General
sparoz's Avatar
Australia
142
Rep
4,849
Posts

Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieRacer View Post
And that's why she corrected too quickly. DTC ain't to blame there.
Fair enough . I should learn how to drive.
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White
1///M - Valencia Orange
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2009, 07:30 AM   #39
AussieRacer
Major
AussieRacer's Avatar
Australia
16
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aust

iTrader: (0)

The main "benefit" of DTC in the wet is you just keep your foot planted, or have a slight breath on the throttle. She'll step out of line a little, but won't do anything silly.

Have DTC off, and you'll need careful throttle control/balance to keep it from over stepping the mark. A quick step off the gas retards acceleration, which causes a weight transfer rearwards, which combined with the slowing of the excess rotation causes the rears to grip up and push the car the direction they are pointing. If that is different to the steering angle she'll tank slap like you experienced. DTC can only help so much with the parameters it is already aware of, so if you change the parameters on it (quickly off throttle) its actions may be thwarted.
__________________
Current: 135i Auto, Le Mans Blue - w/ Bridgestone RE-11 rears, GP Thunder 7500k angels, & "golf tee" mod plus a few M3 suspension bits and pieces...
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2009, 09:25 PM   #40
GtiGyver
First Lieutenant
GtiGyver's Avatar
Canada
18
Rep
318
Posts

Drives: 2008 Jerez Black E90 M3 MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (3)

Where did "Tim YoYo" mode come from?

Never head of it before.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2009, 09:35 PM   #41
RadiuM
Captain
RadiuM's Avatar
Australia
27
Rep
829
Posts

Drives: 135i, 97 GTR VSpec
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: perth

iTrader: (1)

Id say from someone who use to drive a low powered fwd car stepped into a rwd and thought it was scary when they turned off traction control
__________________
'09 BMW 135i, Lemans Blue
'97 Nissan Skyline R33 Series II GTR V-Spec
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2009, 10:50 PM   #42
Lester
Colonel
61
Rep
2,898
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Oct 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GtiGyver View Post
Where did "Tim YoYo" mode come from?

Never head of it before.
That's It, Motherf&$^*$ - You're On Your Own.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2009, 11:22 PM   #43
GtiGyver
First Lieutenant
GtiGyver's Avatar
Canada
18
Rep
318
Posts

Drives: 2008 Jerez Black E90 M3 MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
That's It, Motherf&$^*$ - You're On Your Own.
...i'm on my own within 5 seconds of starting the car most of the time , but why "Tim Yoyo"
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2009, 12:48 AM   #44
sparoz
Brigadier General
sparoz's Avatar
Australia
142
Rep
4,849
Posts

Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GtiGyver View Post
...i'm on my own within 5 seconds of starting the car most of the time , but why "Tim Yoyo"
That's It Mother#$%^&#, You're On Your Own - TIM YOYO.
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White
1///M - Valencia Orange
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST