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      07-23-2007, 05:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endgame View Post
Hmmm. An M1 in 2011. That would be right about the time I originally planned on getting another car. I really like the idea of a 'new M3' based off the 1. WISHFUL THINKING: BMW produces a M1 with at least 350 HP, 3400 pounds (give or take), and the usual M suspension bits and styling = GAME ON.
Alright!! Another person to have faith in an M1. Trust me man, its not gonna be 3400 pounds. I'm thinking below 3100 would be the sweet spot. BMW needs to come out swinging in order to encourage 135i fanatics to upgrade!!
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      07-23-2007, 05:43 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd View Post
Jus replace the 135 badge with an ///M and presto!
When I get my 135i, I'll do that just for laughs. :biggrin: I'll have it reading ///M135csi
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      07-23-2007, 05:44 PM   #47
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The problem would be the engine. M3's V8 is too heavy compared to the 135i's tt inline-6. E46 M3's engine is out of quesiton since its 50Ibs more than the new V8. Which means BMW would have to come up with an brand new engine just for this car? Unlikely...

Light weight CSL approach could work, but its prob. not enuff to really sell the car...CSL + 400hp is the selling point. Where's that 400hp egnine?
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      07-23-2007, 05:51 PM   #48
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I really think there will be one, but not with the E82. With the 135i being released, I believe there will be an S3 and possibly RS3 in the states, forcing BMW to build the M1. We are talking 5 years from now, or so.

They left little room for making the M1 cost effective, or saleable compared to the 135i. Granted, there are weight penalties to the 135i, it's not suspended like a true M car, and it lacks a locking differential, but it goes and stops like one. The brakes on the 135i are ground breaking for BMW, and I would hope they trickle up to the 335i, and existing M cars in the near future.
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      07-23-2007, 05:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by menotakoala View Post
As far as weight reduction for the M version goes.... Carbon fiber roof?
I would love that, mostly because they wouldn't be able to cut a stupid sunroof in it then...
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      07-23-2007, 06:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
You and I are on the same page man. You gathered my thoughts to a T. The M1 does not need to have 400hp. It wont weight 3500 lbs like the current M3.

Btw, it really gets me going when people bash the E92 M3. They said its softer, etc. They said the exact same thing about the E46 when it came out. Now everyone is at its feet. Caranddriver.com gave it a great review. Yes the car got bigger but it is just as competent as ever.

Yes, car and driver said that its got the best M suspension and the best M frame to date. Thats saying a lot considering the E30. My guise is I dont like the fact that it has a V8. I guess its just looking at the history of V8s. How many V8s out there are nimble in the corners and make great track cars? I think personally I just expected a lot more, but as tradition goes most people think the E36 is the best M3 ever, so if thats the case it skips a generation and the e92 should now be the best M! I hope it is, but I still dont like the price hike. I think thats what will hinder the car the most.
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      07-23-2007, 06:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by larryn View Post
I really think there will be one, but not with the E82. With the 135i being released, I believe there will be an S3 and possibly RS3 in the states, forcing BMW to build the M1. We are talking 5 years from now, or so.
Yup. I am not going to wait 5 years for a M1. I am going to get the 135i now and upgrade to a M1 when it's released.
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      07-23-2007, 06:39 PM   #52
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Id like to know who this valid source, that an M1 is in the making, is? I mean is it really someone on the inside or is it someone that thinks they are on the inside?

Im not calling anyone here a fabricator or liar, so dont take it that way? Im just curious if this is just for gossip purpose or if we really have something to look forward to? Because we could sit here and go on and on and on about this stuff.
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      07-23-2007, 06:48 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Won35i View Post
Id like to know who this valid source, that an M1 is in the making, is? I mean is it really someone on the inside or is it someone that thinks they are on the inside?

Im not calling anyone here a fabricator or liar, so dont take it that way? Im just curious if this is just for gossip purpose or if we really have something to look forward to? Because we could sit here and go on and on and on about this stuff.
Educated guess. All the bmw non-truck suv line up has an M version, except the 7 series (too big). So roundel is calling it like it sees it...
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      07-23-2007, 06:52 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventually View Post
Educated guess. All the bmw non-truck suv line up has an M version, except the 7 series (too big). So roundel is calling it like it sees it...
Could be stipulation... didnt really think of that. On a side note, the 7 does have a Alpina version the B7.
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      07-23-2007, 06:58 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Won35i View Post
Could be stipulation... didnt really think of that. On a side note, the 7 does have a Alpina version the B7.
Yep, saw that in the latest roundel...costs less than a 760i but faster...its HOT fur shure!
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      07-23-2007, 07:06 PM   #56
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I also don't see any room for the M1, nor making sense at all, but BMW is known for pulling stunts, so anything is possible. I also think that BMW should preserve their M line, and not add more models to it, I think 3 M cars are more than enough right now.
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      07-23-2007, 07:14 PM   #57
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hee hee I was thinking about that.....i think that ///M135i would be enough to get peoples panty's in a bunch....

I agree with some others, while the M1 will/would be a special car, the lure of the Forced Induction is too much for me. Take all take straigh six goodness and add turbos...how can you go wrong?

Also - if they could pull more out of an NA six, wouldn't they have done it with the new M3? (of course, have to consider the mounting german HP arms race.....)

I also think that is going to be very hard to get that much more out of the six sucking it's own air. And if and when they do, my guess is that it would not have the flexibility or the potential of the TT6.

Can't wait to see how it goes down!


Quote:
Originally Posted by menotakoala View Post
When I get my 135i, I'll do that just for laughs. :biggrin: I'll have it reading ///M135csi
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      07-23-2007, 07:49 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Won35i View Post
Id like to know who this valid source, that an M1 is in the making, is? I mean is it really someone on the inside or is it someone that thinks they are on the inside?

Im not calling anyone here a fabricator or liar, so dont take it that way? Im just curious if this is just for gossip purpose or if we really have something to look forward to? Because we could sit here and go on and on and on about this stuff.
We have a user on here by the name of Scott26. He is also on Germancarzone.com as Scott27. He has basically been our "unofficial mouthpiece" from BMW. Everything he has said regarding the 1 series has been true. He has said that he works for the marketing arm of bmw. He knew what this car looked like before any of us. Do your research. He says there will be an M1. I have no reason to doubt him.

Check out the BMW part of Germancarzone.com He talks about other vehicles in their lineup also.

Oddly enough he hasnt been very active on these boards since the press release. Scott did mention he was doing a photoshoot for the mini clubman.

Read what scott posted in March: He speaks of the biturbo and reasons why there WILL be an M1.
http://www.germancarzone.com/1-serie...1er-coupe.html
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      07-23-2007, 08:02 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
Alright!! Another person to have faith in an M1. Trust me man, its not gonna be 3400 pounds. I'm thinking below 3100 would be the sweet spot. BMW needs to come out swinging in order to encourage 135i fanatics to upgrade!!
Wowy Wow! That's what I'm talking about!
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      07-23-2007, 08:08 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endgame View Post
Wowy Wow! That's what I'm talking about!
I wish I can be as optimistic as you guys because I can't remember the last time bmw produced a car under 3100lbs. But I am hoping too.
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      07-23-2007, 08:16 PM   #61
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Another interesting note in the same article was Tom Purves' take on pricing on the 1er in the US marketplace. Purves stated "it would have a market [in the U.S.... but] the business case is the issue." There is mention of the unfavorable exchange rate and a quote from the magazine doing the interview (Automotove News): "Pricing isn't known, but the 1 Series will likely start below the 3 Series."

Hmmm. Interesting. I think there is worry about potential cannibalizing the 3 Series sales if priced too low, and not being able to sell the 1 Series if too high, plus they have to deal with a stronger Euro than Dollar...
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      07-23-2007, 08:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
. . . "it would have a market [in the U.S.... but] the business case is the issue." There is mention of the unfavorable exchange rate and a quote from the magazine doing the interview (Automotove News): "Pricing isn't known, but the 1 Series will likely start below the 3 Series."...
Larry, which issue of AN was that out of?
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      07-23-2007, 08:28 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Another interesting note in the same article was Tom Purves' take on pricing on the 1er in the US marketplace. Purves stated "it would have a market [in the U.S.... but] the business case is the issue." There is mention of the unfavorable exchange rate and a quote from the magazine doing the interview (Automotove News): "Pricing isn't known, but the 1 Series will likely start below the 3 Series."

Hmmm. Interesting. I think there is worry about potential cannibalizing the 3 Series sales if priced too low, and not being able to sell the 1 Series if too high, plus they have to deal with a stronger Euro than Dollar...

I think there is going to be a price bump on the 335i because of weak dollar and 135i will follow suit.
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      07-23-2007, 08:40 PM   #64
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I don't know if BMW can afford to put a larger gap between them and their 3 Series competitors that are catching up in performance. They couldn't do more than a $500 bump, seeing they just did a substantial bump for the e90 330i -> e90 335i, then priced the e92 even higher.

I bet a lot of people would not opt for a 1 Series just because the base price of the 3 grew.
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      07-23-2007, 08:51 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventually View Post
The problem would be the engine. M3's V8 is too heavy compared to the 135i's tt inline-6. E46 M3's engine is out of quesiton since its 50Ibs more than the new V8. Which means BMW would have to come up with an brand new engine just for this car? Unlikely...

Light weight CSL approach could work, but its prob. not enuff to really sell the car...CSL + 400hp is the selling point. Where's that 400hp egnine?
When it comes to engine weight, how about an all-aluminum version of the S54? The 123d's engine is all-aluminum and designed to handle 300 ft/lb torque at much higher compression ratio's than the S54. The 123d comes in 145 lbs lighter than the 135i. They have the technology.

I don't think anyone has mentioned a lower final drive ratio yet. That could give an M1 much more pep, no matter what engine they used.

A moderately tuned twin turbo from the 135i with just ~350 hp and ~350 ft/lb mated to a lower final drive in a lighter car would also give the kind of performance gap that M-buyers would expect.

How about this:
1) Either more HP/torque tuned into the twin turbo out of the factory, or a lightweight high-reving all-aluminum higher HP/torque version of the S54.
2) LSD
3) Lower final drive ratio
4) Carbon fiber roof (sunroof delete obviously)
5) Suspension upgrade
6) cooling system upgrade if the TT is used
7) vader-style lightweight manual adjust performance seats
8) Lighter body panels and suspension parts, etc to get the weight down
9) Unique paints and interiors only for the M1
10) Unique wheels only for the M1
11) No RFT's
12) More modes for more conrol over the electronic babysitters (DSC, traction, etc)
13) short shifter with better feel
14) Warrantee intact on everything.

I think that would be enough market differentation from the 135i to draw buyers to spend more for the M1. It would at least drive a ton of attention on the web to the 135i and the M1. Think of all the posts about whether the M1 was worth the extra cash, or whether just chipping and upgrading a 135i was a better deal... Like in this thread, way before we even know if a 135i and an M1 will ever be sold at the same time. It would be better for BMW sales than endless posts about whether the Audi S3 or whatever is better than the M1 or 135i.

With all that dreaming aside, I would still rather see a less costly 123d in the next round of 1-series cars instead of an expensive M1. I'm sure that opinion isn't very popular with most of the posters on all the BMW boards. But I would bet there would be more actual buyers in the showroom closing the deal to buy an inexpensive 123d, than the number of board posters who would leave the virtual world long enough to close a deal on an M1 in RL.

Were those fighting words? Heh

<flame-resistant underwear on>
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      07-23-2007, 09:11 PM   #66
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The diesel is waiting for the implementation of low-sulfer fuel, I would suspect. And based on the info on Scott's post on GCR that 'onehots2k' provided a link for earlier, it would appear that an 'M1er' will be powered by a version of the N52 block. Kinda makes sense because they can shave weight out back when they put the lighter MgAL block in the car.
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