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      07-19-2019, 01:06 PM   #111
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My two cents:

I dislike the mid engine thing. American cars suffer from too much spreadsheet-itis, that is, the desire to 'check the box' on things.
Examples:
-Flat plane engine like the GT350. Then it drinks oil like there's no tomorrow and is unreliable given the complaints on the Mustang forums. But hey, they were able to check the damn box
-Dry sump oil system. Cuz if expensive cars have it we need it too! Nevermind that later on it'll still suffer oil starvation. Meanwhile, the E9X M3 and F8X generations don't suffer oil starvation without any fancy check the box exercises.
-Auto gearboxes that are worthless piles of manure. Like the 8 speed in the Z06. But they still spoke about it being faster than PDK/DCT... perhaps when the DCT is disconnected from the car the 8/10 speed is faster
-Lots of cooling stuff. Diff cooler, tranny cooler, oil cooler, whatever. Then it overheats with stock PSS tires in 80F weather.
-etc etc

So, I feel the mid engine thing is a massive distraction. There is no handling issue with being front engine rear wheel drive. I wish they had concentrated on building a better driver's car.



That said, I do like a few things:
-Moved away from leaf/composite whatever springs and now have double wishbones. Given that a pro driver says they feel this is responsible for handling that is trickier than it should be, this is a big win
-Still evolving big, NA power engines. I like the base engine has 495hp, that's cool.
-Finally a friggin DCT! Built by Tremec so we'll see if it's comparable to DCT, but still a good step


As always I'm a sucker for hoping they build proper american cars for track use that function properly. Hope springs eternal. Perhaps the C8 is something I can buy and that's exciting!



BEFORE anyone gets all argumentative, I am trying to be constructive. I have no problem with Vettes (unlike Porsches) and I want them to succeed. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, so Vettes/Mustangs/whatever are all partners in the crusade against 4 cylinder $100k cars

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 07-19-2019 at 01:12 PM..
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      07-19-2019, 01:07 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNorm4Life View Post
Ford is no doubt probably sweating about their GT500 price point... a lot of automakers and their engineers are probably saying WTF!
do not be fooled by the base price. The GS was ~70k and the Z06 spartan edition that could go to the track (only to overheat a lap later, but that's a different story...) was 90k

Rest assured the equivalent C8 versions will be more expensive.

Personally I don't mind them being more expensive as long as they function properly. People pay obscene amounts of money for Porsches with tiny itty bitty engines that cost 100k (Cayman S I'm looking at you) so no reason why the Vette's performance editions have to be cheap. But if it's a performance edition it had better work at the track
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      07-19-2019, 01:20 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
I don't really see your point as neither of those cars had close to the money, risk to the company, or engineering prowess behind them but anyway...the Z06 will be a DOHC twin turbo.
The C8 is using GM's new Global B electical system and platform and up until a few months ago, the C8 was suffering from electrical issues. The higher powered C8s were also breaking their back glass because the motor twisted so hard in it's subframe.

This is an entirely new platform for GM, both mechanical and electronically. The motor is a pretty tried and true part but everything else, and I mean everything, is new. This car will not be without it's teething issues once it's in the hands of owners. Don't get me wrong here, I like the car a lot. I just pray GM has really beat the hell out of thing to reduce the potential of major issues after introduction. There's something about putting cars in the real world where the big issues are revealed. Look at the Mustang GT350 for example. That motor is junk.

GM, without a doubt, is building some of best performing and handling cars at any pricing point. A light, mid-engine, 2 seat, V8 Vette for $60-70K will be an amazing performer and should be easier on expendables unlike their heavy performance cars using wonder tires to generate bonkers performance numbers. Thank God they made it look pretty dang good too, inside and out. It's high on my list. I also think 500hp is plenty and should be more than usable. Hell, the thing should easily do low 11s stock. That's silly.
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      07-19-2019, 01:21 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
They explicitly said it did. Crazy I know!

There has to be some very hurt feeling Supra owners out there right now.
They're probably less hurt than those that dumped out $70k+ for a Z4M40i
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      07-19-2019, 01:27 PM   #115
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Corvette never had any problem with speed but it always has been the finer things that irritate you. I haven't driven the car so I don't know mechanically how it will feel but visually, a couple things I am not sure I can live with.

The side air intake still looks really odd. When you open the door, that thing just sticks out from the door that is just weird. Also the rear end looks sort of flabby and too wide visually and the surface design looks a bit bland. Also because they have to add the trunk in the back, the length might be a few inches too long.

The positives are it seems like they finally got rid of the leaf springs. Will see how the Tremec DCT perform.

As for the manual, since the transmission is now located way at the rear, I think it would be a challenge to design a shift linkage from way up from the driver, past the engine, then to the gear box at the rear.
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      07-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
My two cents:

I dislike the mid engine thing. American cars suffer from too much spreadsheet-itis, that is, the desire to 'check the box' on things.
Examples:
-Flat plane engine like the GT350. Then it drinks oil like there's no tomorrow and is unreliable given the complaints on the Mustang forums. But hey, they were able to check the damn box
-Dry sump oil system. Cuz if expensive cars have it we need it too! Nevermind that later on it'll still suffer oil starvation. Meanwhile, the E9X M3 and F8X generations don't suffer oil starvation without any fancy check the box exercises.
-Auto gearboxes that are worthless piles of manure. Like the 8 speed in the Z06. But they still spoke about it being faster than PDK/DCT... perhaps when the DCT is disconnected from the car the 8/10 speed is faster
-Lots of cooling stuff. Diff cooler, tranny cooler, oil cooler, whatever. Then it overheats with stock PSS tires in 80F weather.
-etc etc

So, I feel the mid engine thing is a massive distraction. There is no handling issue with being front engine rear wheel drive. I wish they had concentrated on building a better driver's car.



All really good points. A mid-engine Vette was inevitable though. They've been trying to push one through since the 1970s. The powertrain tech is here and they are making gobs of power and the car was due for a redesign. They could have easily gone with a front mid-ship design, but mid-engine is the preferred way to go for most performance marques so that's the direction GM went. The Camaro will take care of the front engine and RWD performance duty.

You do bring up a good point about cooling. Let's hope GM used mid and rear engine Porsche's as their benchmark for cooling design. There is definitely more effort in keeping this design cooled off reliably.
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      07-19-2019, 01:53 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
This just killed the Supra, M2, Cayman, anything else thatís under $100k and a lot of cars above it.

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      07-19-2019, 01:55 PM   #118
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They are going to sell a TON of these. Holy crap, wtf is the point of the Supra, M2, M3/4, on and on.
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      07-19-2019, 01:55 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The Z06 usually has a breathed on version of the base engine, but ZR1 goodies in chassis and brakes... doesn't it? Maybe that's the GS. �� I think the ZR1 will probably be a supercharged v8 like it is now. We will see!
Yeah, I am starting to think that is still a possibility. Few weeks ago everyone thought the CT5-V Blackwing(or whatever they will call it) would have twin turbo V8. Apparently Jonny Libermann from Motor Trend says it is getting 6.2L Supercharged V8, not the Blackwing motor. I could see C8 Z06 getting 6.2L supercharged V8, C8 ZR1(Zora) getting twin turbos and/or hybrid powertrain. I think the C8.R GTE release will be telling, whether that car has turbos or not.

Some variant is getting twin turbos.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DR-95ngV4AAQxKR.jpg[/IMG]
Looks like that blue part is the catalytic converter, and the green muffler is just poking out a tiny bit. A cat delete appears like it would be a huge improvement considering there's a turn involved with the oem cat.
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      07-19-2019, 01:58 PM   #120
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I've always hated GM with a passion but I would absolutely drive this thing in a heartbeat. I am completely shocked, well done GM.
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      07-19-2019, 02:02 PM   #121
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I found a possible issue. There does not seem to be anything that protects the radiator below. Most mid engine cars have the radiators upfront and probably run some types of piping back to the engine in the back. GM seems to place the radiator in the back probably for cost saving. From the picture, I don't see anything that will protect the radiator in case of a bird strike lols. That may also explain the heavier rear weight bias vs. other mid engine car.

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      07-19-2019, 02:04 PM   #122
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I really love how there is no talk of batteries/hybrid, and all-wheel drive snowflake BS. It's just a modern all-American sports car that a common man could aspire to actually own.
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      07-19-2019, 02:05 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The C8 is using GM's new Global B electical system and platform and up until a few months ago, the C8 was suffering from electrical issues. The higher powered C8s were also breaking their back glass because the motor twisted so hard in it's subframe.
You really believe that rumor about the glass breaking?

They also had another about the frame twisting from too much torque.

One of the engineers was interviewed yesterday and had a good laugh about that.
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      07-19-2019, 02:07 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
I found a possible issue. There does not seem to be anything that protects the radiator below. Most mid engine cars have the radiators upfront and probably run some types of piping back to the engine in the back. GM seems to place the radiator in the back probably for cost saving. From the picture, I don't see anything that will protect the radiator in case of a bird strike lols. That may also explain the heavier rear weight bias vs. other mid engine car.

[IMG]https://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites...?itok=7sFgmHaF[/IMG]
Mid engine cars have been putting radiators on the side of the car for forever. First examples that come to mind are the Testarossa or Countach. Plus who wants the complexity and weight of running radiators on the complete other end of the car? 🤷🏻*♂️
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      07-19-2019, 02:08 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
I found a possible issue. There does not seem to be anything that protects the radiator below. Most mid engine cars have the radiators upfront and probably run some types of piping back to the engine in the back. GM seems to place the radiator in the back probably for cost saving. From the picture, I don't see anything that will protect the radiator in case of a bird strike lols. That may also explain the heavier rear weight bias vs. other mid engine car.

This car is built like almost every other midengined car. Radiators up front. Its weight distribution is no different from any of the others either. Please stop.



What youíre looking at are probably driveline heat exchangers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
do not be fooled by the base price. The GS was ~70k and the Z06 spartan edition that could go to the track (only to overheat a lap later, but that's a different story...) was 90k

Rest assured the equivalent C8 versions will be more expensive.

Personally I don't mind them being more expensive as long as they function properly. People pay obscene amounts of money for Porsches with tiny itty bitty engines that cost 100k (Cayman S I'm looking at you) so no reason why the Vette's performance editions have to be cheap. But if it's a performance edition it had better work at the track
Early Z06s did overheat. Later Z06s with the higher S/C plenum and auxiliary radiator do just fine at the track. The C7 Z06 was nowhere near spartan either.

Last edited by See5; 07-19-2019 at 02:14 PM..
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      07-19-2019, 02:13 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNorm4Life View Post
Ford is no doubt probably sweating about their GT500 price point... a lot of automakers and their engineers are probably saying WTF!
Porsche with the Cayman with similar base price and almost half the HP or its 911 with less HP and almost twice the price is shitting themselves right now






This is a game changer
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      07-19-2019, 02:13 PM   #127
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so how likely is that someone can actually buy at msrp?
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      07-19-2019, 02:14 PM   #128
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Lots of cars have random scoops appended to the door.

[IMG]https://photos7.motorcar.com/used-20...054-1-1024.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://wallpaperstock.net/wallpaper...s1/46328hd.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://st.automobilemag.com/uploads...around%7C0%3A0[/IMG]
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      07-19-2019, 02:15 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
This car is built like almost every other midengined car. Radiators up front. Its weight distribution is no different from any of the others either. Please stop.



What youíre looking at are probably driveline heat exchangers.



Early Z06s did overheat. Later Z06s with the higher S/C plenum and auxiliary radiator do just fine at the track. The C7 Z06 was nowhere near spartan either.


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      07-19-2019, 02:15 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
This car is built like almost every other midengined car. Radiators up front. Its weight distribution is no different from any of the others either. Please stop.



What you’re looking at are probably driveline heat exchangers.



Early Z06s did overheat. Later Z06s with the higher S/C plenum and auxiliary radiator do just fine at the track. The C7 Z06 was nowhere near spartan either.
Thanks for the clarification. To be fair, I didn't have any inside information like you do :-)
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      07-19-2019, 02:18 PM   #131
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Quote:
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so how likely is that someone can actually buy at msrp?
After a year or two steep discounts will likely be available just like every other Vette model.

Due to the radical design change of this platform, there's also no way in hell I'd buy the first model year. I could definitely see this being my next car in 3-4 years however. This looks like an absolute hit, and who else is going to give you this package for this kind of money? Sure as hell not BMW.
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      07-19-2019, 02:27 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
so how likely is that someone can actually buy at msrp?
After a year or two steep discounts will likely be available just like every other Vette model.

Due to the radical design change of this platform, there's also no way in hell I'd buy the first model year. I could definitely see this being my next car in 3-4 years however. This looks like an absolute hit, and who else is going to give you this package for this kind of money? Sure as hell not BMW.
If you do you don't mind less performance, 15k miles and 62.5% fewer cylinders, sure they do.

[IMG]https://www.cstatic-images.com/super...825b28ccba.jpg[/IMG]

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...5600/overview/
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