twin turbo vs single turbo...

AlBel1214 · 10-22-2008, 08:09 PM

Would the 135 engine with a single large turbo be any better??
:iono:

fmxomar · 10-22-2008, 08:23 PM

what do you mean by "better"

BilletDesign · 10-22-2008, 08:25 PM

it will be awsome just wait till the tuners take part aka as ppls warrenties expire . waiting to see what stock internals can handle and fuel system. its gonna be sick guys!!!

AlBel1214 · 10-22-2008, 08:31 PM

I mean better as in better oppurtunities for torque and HP with tuning...

never · 10-22-2008, 10:22 PM

Depends on the RPM you want to make your power at.

clived · 10-23-2008, 03:05 AM

Why not just change the two existing turbos for something slightly larger instead of throwing away the lag-reducing benefits and going for one monster?

ben14142001 · 10-23-2008, 03:29 AM

1 big turbo = lag city, but crazy power up high (Check modified Supras)
Our turbos are parallel and the same size, I believe, which makes it a very lag-free set-up. A sequential set-up, used originally in Supras, has a smaller turbo that spools at lower RPM's and a bigger turbo that spools at higher RPM's. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, and honestly, with the numbers we see out of tuning out engines, I'm not sure why anyone would want to replace the turbos for stock set-ups. With a tune, intercooler, downpipes, exhaust and intake you should be running fairly ridiculous numbers.

-Ben

Bahraini135 · 10-23-2008, 05:13 AM

Just waiting to see someone with balls to do the 1st single turboed N54 :P This engine could be the next 2jzgte

123D-M · 10-23-2008, 05:25 AM

I would like to see a sequential twin turbo set up like in my 123d. No turbo lag!

My old Subaru Legacy B4 had a sequential twin turbo and it was fantastic although it did have a bit of a 'flat spot' between the turbos. Every now and then if I changed up at the wrong rpm I would land there and there would nothing for a second or two.

However, I'm sure the engine management computers now can well take care of that. Certainly there is no 'flat-spot' in my diesel.

BerkTechnology · 10-24-2008, 09:20 PM

Our tubos are asymetrical. One is larger than the other.

Lag is non-existant on our cars because these are litterly the smallest turbo's I have ever seen. But that's what makes them great to drive around town. Instant boost on tap.

The size of your turbo really depends on what kind of driving you do. Personally I only care about what happens from 3500 to redline. But if you're mostly doing spirited driving on the streets and around town, the small but ultra responsive stock twins are just the thing.

audi2bmw1 · 10-25-2008, 11:25 AM

you've confirmed this?^^^^ im pretty sure they both have the same sizes on both the cool and hot side...

TT1351 · 10-25-2008, 11:49 AM

Basically smaller turbos spool up quicker then 1 big turbo, which keeps turbo lag to a minimum.
Fran

esses · 10-25-2008, 01:46 PM

Pretty sure they are parallel twin; one is powered by cylinder 123, the other by 456, and they spin in opposite directions.

Mad Dragon · 10-25-2008, 01:50 PM

Both turbos are the same size.

spankrorie · 10-25-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phiberglass

N52 turboed

Why would that even cross your mind? Do your homework homie!

mkiiieustyle · 10-26-2008, 11:54 AM

to me it would depend on what you are looking for, if it's a straight drag car or a @ick swinging contest then try and go for a single turbo setup i've seen i think 1 done on a 335i by a tuner. if you are doing road coarse, auto cross or even drifting then the power that basic bolts and a tune can bring with these engines is more than enough....... but thats just my oppion.

Mark M · 10-30-2008, 09:58 AM

I am not an engineer. But I do consider myself a logical person.

Wouldn't ya think the engineers over there at BMW would have played around with various scenerios? One giant, two small, 1 small and one large, etc?

Just my 2 cents, but I am sure those engineers tried these things out and settled on what we have in the 135 because it was the best fit for the designated applications of the design.

Not trying to hinder you armchair theorists and backyard wrenchers....but as others have said..with an improved tune and some other small stuff this car has awesome capabilities!

esses · 10-30-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark M

I am not an engineer. But I do consider myself a logical person.

Wouldn't ya think the engineers over there at BMW would have played around with various scenerios? One giant, two small, 1 small and one large, etc?

Just my 2 cents, but I am sure those engineers tried these things out and settled on what we have in the 135 because it was the best fit for the designated applications of the design.

Not trying to hinder you armchair theorists and backyard wrenchers....but as others have said..with an improved tune and some other small stuff this car has awesome capabilities!

Yes, there are volumes of reports and press releases about the development of the n54. The tiny Mitsubishi turbos we have were chosen to balance reliability, production cost, and fuel economy while keeping the engine within the hp/tq range that made sense in the model lineup and operating with minimal spooling (lag).

What the people here are talking about, I think, is a setup that no problem aspiring to out-perform an M6. "Designated applications of the design" goes right out the window. :biggrin:

jeremyc74 · 10-30-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark M

I am not an engineer. But I do consider myself a logical person.

Wouldn't ya think the engineers over there at BMW would have played around with various scenerios? One giant, two small, 1 small and one large, etc?

Just my 2 cents, but I am sure those engineers tried these things out and settled on what we have in the 135 because it was the best fit for the designated applications of the design.

Not trying to hinder you armchair theorists and backyard wrenchers....but as others have said..with an improved tune and some other small stuff this car has awesome capabilities!

The stock turbos have limitations, which seems to be right around 400RWHP. To go much beyond that reliably is going to require more boost, and that means larger turbos.

The goal of BMW's engineers is always a compromise of a lot of things, including cost, emissions, and fuel economy. Some of those things are less important to people who want to go very fast.

As for the single turbo, I'm thinking two slightly larger twins is the way to go. Either setup is going to introduce a little more lag than the stock setup, but I'm thinking the twins will be easier to package given the space we're working with.

The real question is how much power the block and head will stand, and how much overhead there is to exploit in the fuel system. I'm thinking it's going to cost a TON of money to go beyond 450WHP reliably.

10-22-2008, 08:09 PM	#1
AlBel1214 Major 52 Rep 1,118 Posts Drives: past 135i, now c6, future M3?? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	twin turbo vs single turbo... Would the 135 engine with a single large turbo be any better?? :iono: __________________ -----LS3 C6----- *z51 suspension,* *NPP dual mode exhaust(wild2mild),20% tint,* zr1 replica wheels, gloss black fender stripes** R.I.P SGM 135i w/ some mods
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10-22-2008, 08:23 PM	#2
fmxomar Major 94 Rep 1,245 Posts Drives: bmw 135i Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: san diego, ca iTrader: (15)	what do you mean by "better"
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10-22-2008, 08:25 PM	#3
BilletDesign Private 7 Rep 78 Posts Drives: 2008 e90 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: s. florida iTrader: (0)	it will be awsome just wait till the tuners take part aka as ppls warrenties expire . waiting to see what stock internals can handle and fuel system. its gonna be sick guys!!!
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10-22-2008, 08:31 PM	#4
AlBel1214 Major 52 Rep 1,118 Posts Drives: past 135i, now c6, future M3?? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	I mean better as in better oppurtunities for torque and HP with tuning... __________________ -----LS3 C6----- *z51 suspension,* *NPP dual mode exhaust(wild2mild),20% tint,* zr1 replica wheels, gloss black fender stripes** R.I.P SGM 135i w/ some mods
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10-22-2008, 10:22 PM	#5
never driver 1 Rep 142 Posts Drives: not a 135 anymore Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Depends on the RPM you want to make your power at.
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10-23-2008, 03:05 AM	#6
clived Captain 39 Rep 812 Posts Drives: Evolved 1M Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Why not just change the two existing turbos for something slightly larger instead of throwing away the lag-reducing benefits and going for one monster? __________________ 2019+ BSM M2C 2011-2012: VO 1M Coupe, many toys, Evolve Stage 3. 2008-2011: 135i M Sport Le Mans Blue / Lemon / HGSL. Evolve OBD remap - 390bhp. Also in the family: X3 M40d / Audi S4 (V8)
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10-23-2008, 03:29 AM	#7
ben14142001 Captain 27 Rep 707 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Nashville iTrader: (1)	1 big turbo = lag city, but crazy power up high (Check modified Supras) Our turbos are parallel and the same size, I believe, which makes it a very lag-free set-up. A sequential set-up, used originally in Supras, has a smaller turbo that spools at lower RPM's and a bigger turbo that spools at higher RPM's. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, and honestly, with the numbers we see out of tuning out engines, I'm not sure why anyone would want to replace the turbos for stock set-ups. With a tune, intercooler, downpipes, exhaust and intake you should be running fairly ridiculous numbers. -Ben
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10-23-2008, 05:13 AM	#8
Bahraini135 First Lieutenant 28 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 09 M-Packaged 135i Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 11.85@116.4mph ... [10.00]	Just waiting to see someone with balls to do the 1st single turboed N54 :P This engine could be the next 2jzgte __________________ '73 240z Triple-Carbed '03 350z Supercharged '09 135i Twin-Turbocharged *11.85@116.4mph*
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10-23-2008, 05:25 AM	#9
123D-M Captain 32 Rep 930 Posts Drives: BMW 123d M-Sport Coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Madrid, Spain iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Citroen DS19 P ... [0.00] 2009 123D M-Sport C ... [10.00] 2009 Mazda6 [0.00]	I would like to see a sequential twin turbo set up like in my 123d. No turbo lag! My old Subaru Legacy B4 had a sequential twin turbo and it was fantastic although it did have a bit of a 'flat spot' between the turbos. Every now and then if I changed up at the wrong rpm I would land there and there would nothing for a second or two. However, I'm sure the engine management computers now can well take care of that. Certainly there is no 'flat-spot' in my diesel. __________________ 2009 123D Coupe \| Sedona Red \| Black Boston Leather \| Brushed Aluminium Trim \| Tinted Windows \| M-Sport Package \| 6M \| Comfort Access \| Heated Seats \| Navigation \| Park Distance Front & Rear \| USB \| Bluetooth \| Voice Control \| Efficient Dynamics \| Rain & Light Sensors \| Xenon Lights My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/
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10-24-2008, 09:20 PM	#10
BerkTechnology Lieutenant Colonel 223 Rep 1,565 Posts Drives: Fast Join Date: May 2008 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (1)	Our tubos are asymetrical. One is larger than the other. Lag is non-existant on our cars because these are litterly the smallest turbo's I have ever seen. But that's what makes them great to drive around town. Instant boost on tap. The size of your turbo really depends on what kind of driving you do. Personally I only care about what happens from 3500 to redline. But if you're mostly doing spirited driving on the streets and around town, the small but ultra responsive stock twins are just the thing.
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10-25-2008, 11:25 AM	#11
audi2bmw1 Lieutenant 21 Rep 513 Posts Drives: 09 montego 135i/acura vigor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: IN iTrader: (0)	you've confirmed this?^^^^ im pretty sure they both have the same sizes on both the cool and hot side... __________________ 09 135i montego blue 6speed..RR catch can,CDV,DCI intakes,stett charge pipe and tial bov, the above mods are not installed on my car, i just want to seem cool Devils own water/meth dealer-PM me for info former car/ 2001 audi TT ~290bhp :w00t:
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10-25-2008, 11:49 AM	#12
TT1351 Captain 508 Rep 929 Posts Drives: 135, GTS, E30 M3+ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (2)	Basically smaller turbos spool up quicker then 1 big turbo, which keeps turbo lag to a minimum. Fran
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10-25-2008, 01:46 PM	#13
esses • 19 Rep 709 Posts Drives: like I stole it. Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (1)	Pretty sure they are parallel twin; one is powered by cylinder 123, the other by 456, and they spin in opposite directions. __________________
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10-25-2008, 01:50 PM	#14
Mad Dragon . 27 Rep 932 Posts Drives: 2010 GTI Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: MD iTrader: (0)	Both turbos are the same size.
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10-26-2008, 11:54 AM	#16
mkiiieustyle Private First Class 10 Rep 151 Posts Drives: mk3 vr6 jetta, soon to be 135i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: va beach iTrader: (0)	to me it would depend on what you are looking for, if it's a straight drag car or a @ick swinging contest then try and go for a single turbo setup i've seen i think 1 done on a 335i by a tuner. if you are doing road coarse, auto cross or even drifting then the power that basic bolts and a tune can bring with these engines is more than enough....... but thats just my oppion.
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10-30-2008, 09:58 AM	#17
Mark M Major 240 Rep 1,288 Posts Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA iTrader: (0)	I am not an engineer. But I do consider myself a logical person. Wouldn't ya think the engineers over there at BMW would have played around with various scenerios? One giant, two small, 1 small and one large, etc? Just my 2 cents, but I am sure those engineers tried these things out and settled on what we have in the 135 because it was the best fit for the designated applications of the design. Not trying to hinder you armchair theorists and backyard wrenchers....but as others have said..with an improved tune and some other small stuff this car has awesome capabilities!
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