Intake that doesnt make performance worse

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by dcafs

Fouling of the sensors by oiled filters was extensively tested by K&N and debunked.

Very eye-opening video :eyebulge: about high airflow testing which you guys might appreciate.

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/2MAFSensorVideo.htm

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/4MAFSensorVideo.htm

BTW...I do not endorse K&N products in any way. I have the BMS dual cone intake and I think it rocks. I just redirected the stock CAI snorkel to shoot the cold air uptake from the front grills directly onto the cones.

Sure there is a bit of heatsoak when the car is standing still....but this is true of any true CAI system due to the radiant heat affecting the tubing via conduction. Once the car is moving, the cold airflow overcomes the conduction effect.

Sorry to disagree, but I know many many people who have suffered the dreaded K&N MAF sensor failure.

[never]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Sorry to disagree, but I know many many people who have suffered the dreaded K&N MAF sensor failure.

Are the people who experience issues having problems after they install the factory oiled K&N or is it after they do a cleaning and re-oiling?

[ChrisK]

Both. I'm sure many people over oil their filters...that's a given. personally, I have never had a problem with a K&N drop-in and sensor failure.

My complaint has been K&N lets too many particulates into my engine. That's another discussion.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by Crowley

has anyone with the RR intake done before and after dynos? Just wondering ..

Crowley

NO, NO, and again NO...and that is a problem with ALL of these filters. I have yet to see a true independent dyno on ANY of them (with just the intake alone tested on a stock vehicle)

[ChrisK]

I WOULD love to see that!

[dcafs]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Sorry to disagree, but I know many many people who have suffered the dreaded K&N MAF sensor failure.

Seems to me that unless some of the people you know actually performed a chemical analysis to look for contamination from air filter oil, then all anyone can say with certainty is that their MAF failed. The cause being air filter oil is at most speculation.

If the oil contaminates the sensors, then all of the oiled air filter products being offered should be prone to the same fate. AFE, BMS, K&N, RR etc, as they all use an oiled filter.

In those video clips it was apparent that many of the auto dealers were falsely blaming the aftermarket parts market out of ignorance and as an easy way out of warranty claims. Dealers don't do chemical spectrometry either....they just look at your performance intake and blame that instead.

Hey...that kind of sounds familiar doesn't it?

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by dcafs

Seems to me that unless some of the people you know actually performed a chemical analysis to look for contamination from the air filter oil, then all anyone can say with certainty is that their MAF failed. The cause being air filter oil is at most speculation.

If the oil contaminates the sensors, then all of the oiled air filter products being offered should be prone to the same fate. AFE, BMS, K&N, RR etc, as they all use an oiled filter.

In those video clips it was apparent that many of the auto dealers were falsely blaming the aftermarket parts market out of ignorance and as an easy way out of warranty claims.

Hey...that kind of sounds familiar doesn't it?

Umm...RR uses a dry filter buddy...

[dcafs]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

Umm...RR uses a dry filter buddy...

Thanks for the put-down! You certainly make a compelling point!

[adrean8j]

^^^Wasnt meant to be a put down...just a correction my fellow 1addict

[Brandon26pdx]

Gruppe...not sure what kind of filter element they ship it with though.

[dcafs]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

^^^Wasnt meant to be a put down...just a correction my fellow 1addict

Thank-you for that correction, but the picture of the RR intake (taken from their website) definitely shows a K&N oiled filter. You may notice the red hue indicating the presence of filter oil. Therefore, I am puzzled by your statement that their filter is dry.


Not to be anal, but in my experience when debating an issue and someone refers to you as their "buddy", it is not usually intended as a gesture of friendship, so I take that label with a grain of salt and as such, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Sorry, but I'm sensitive to that....it's not your fault.

I am just offering my opinion about intakes and debating them based on as much fact and logic as possible......in no way do I claim to be right about any of this so I apologize to those who have experienced a faulty sensor and firmly believe an oiled filter was the cause.

I just have to wonder whether the dealers blame these aftermarket air filters out of convenience and spread more rumour than fact about them.

I love my BMS dual intake...but initially I was against oiled filters and the heatsoak potential of an open element design. I have to admit though that turbo compression probably raises the intake temperatures a lot more than the engine bay does, and BMW states that the stock intercooler lowers the intake air temperature by up to 80 degrees C. That means that even the stock CAI design needs an intercooler to drop the temperature and density of the intake air. So what does that tell you about cold air intakes on turbocharged engines?

[adrean8j]

My answer about the RR intake was said because of this quote:

Originally Posted by Adam@Riss Racing

The K&N we are testing tomorrow will be DRY. We're going to test both and give results. The filter is pretty big so the test should go well. We've had the intake installed on one of our Vishnu V3 cars and the thing pulls hard. The owner had Dual Cones but said the throttle response was better and was very smooth. Will try to get a dyno in the afternoon. Thanks!

BTW if you thought that this debate had a negative overtone then I could understand that you thought I was being cynical. I personally never thought it was at that level...but to each their own...

[ChrisK]

Seems to me that unless some of the people you know actually performed a chemical analysis to look for contamination from air filter oil, then all anyone can say with certainty is that their MAF failed. The cause being air filter oil is at most speculation.

If the oil contaminates the sensors, then all of the oiled air filter products being offered should be prone to the same fate. AFE, BMS, K&N, RR etc, as they all use an oiled filter.


I have four friends, each has an identical car. Two replace the stock filter with a K&N drop-in and have sensor problems. Also given different oils, air flow, and design...I wouldn't make the assumption that if one mfg causes problems they all should. :iono:

[ChrisK]

"Wasnt meant to be a put down...just a correction my fellow 1addict"

"Thanks for the put-down! You certainly make a compelling point!"



Listen you guys!!! :biggrin:

We are only having this discussion because we are a bunch of sick, anal 1 addicts!

:drinking:

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by dcafs

I have to admit though that turbo compression probably raises the intake temperatures a lot more than the engine bay does, and BMW states that the stock intercooler lowers the intake air temperature by up to 80 degrees C. That means that even the stock CAI design needs an intercooler to drop the temperature and density of the intake air. So what does that tell you about cold air intakes on turbocharged engines?

Umm...If you have a good CAI design you also need a better IC to get the most out of it? (BTW I am NOT a pro on engine design and turbo's) Just figured I would venture a guess...LOL:biggrin:

[never]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I have four friends.

You should try getting out more! :wink:

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by never

You should try getting out more! :wink:

I know many people, I have four friends :wink:

[sp0nger]

EVERY time i drive with my buddy he makes the blow off valve WOOOSH sound every time i shift.. its HILARIOUS

he tells me all the time put a bov on this thing

..then i just call him a ricer

[Johnnyr135]

I switched out my AFE intake for a Riss intake today and I am so glad that I did. It feels amazing

[dcafs]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I WOULD love to see that!

Well here you go.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014

The results would suggest that the Intercooler more than offsets the hot air drawn in by open filter intakes as compared to temperatures experienced with the stock BMW cold air intake.

So I reiterate my previous point which was if the stock cold air intake does such a good job then why is there an intercooler to begin with?

To quote BMW's own technical paper..."The charge air is greatly heated when compressed in the turbocharger, making it necessary for the air to be cooled again in an intercooler".

BMW's own literature states that the stock intercooler reduces intake temperatures by up to 80 degress celsius. That's 176 fahrenheit! "The charge air heated in the turbocharger by its component temperature and by compression is cooled in the intercooler by up to 80 C"

[audi2bmw1]

big intercooler(s),water injection,better intake gaskets(thick insualted or special material) are far better at cooling temps than any intake will ever do on a turbo charged car...the turbo creates a ton of heat as is. and are you guys positive our 135i's are MAP based instead of MAF based....as i dont have my 135i yet i cant pop the hood and look...

[mistermojorizin]

yea no MAF. we havea TMAP sensor