NO DCT - 1M-Coupe !!!

[02fireman]

Take the 6MT and enjoy! There's a reason BMW put a manual in my 2OO2

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by as7920

Shame about auto. I would have liked the choice but was 99% set on manual despite M25 traffic here in London.

Thing I have to ask is why are you sitting in a car for 4-5 hours on a regular basis.

Is public transport that bad over there?

I think I too would be biased to auto if that were the case here

Here is the deal with public tranportation ( the Bus) in my neck of the woods (Annapolis, MD): Either, you lost your car, don't have a car, can't afford a car, too lazy to buy a car, can't borrow someone else's car, no issurance for a car, license is suspended or revoked, too many Driving Under the Influences, or you want to save money, or you are a crazy peron with a affinity for talking (and stalking) complete strangers...

In Baltimore, it's kinda the same deal, other than it's a convience ( I used to ride the bus in Baltimore during college). In and around DC, there is the Metro bus that goes too and from DC, and then there is the Metro rail as well. As far as the bus, read what I listed above, now imagine riding with said people, and the lunatics...who make M enthusiasts look like Sunday school patrons.

I think BMW did too much of a rush job, and depending on the results, hopefully this will be the last. I had been looking fwd to the 1 series since they did the beige color convertible Concept amost 8 yrs ago, and when the 135i came out, I immediately thought a M version would come out, one with all the goodies...at least give me the option of having icing on my cake...not just the cake and say, "You Vill Like It!!! It's "M" pure...."

Joy, is having my cake (with icing), and eating it too...

[niuniu]

^^ Sometimes the rawness that a car put together as quickly as this can have it exactly what will make it a great driver's car.

The next 1M is likely to be more refined I have no doubt, faster, more agile, more equipment - but I think this one will be the one to remember for a lot of reasons.

Will see though

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by niuniu

^^ Sometimes the rawness that a car put together as quickly as this can have it exactly what will make it a great driver's car.

The next 1M is likely to be more refined I have no doubt, faster, more agile, more equipment - but I think this one will be the one to remember for a lot of reasons.

Will see though

I agree. Not sure you can "rush" an M car. The body style was there already and they used many M3 parts. BMW will not put an M badge on a car (suv's not included) without it being deserved. If you listen to Segler's interview, you hear the passion for this car and the M brand overall. I think this the car is going to rock. Still have to decide on a manual or get a CPO M3. Not a bad problem to have!

[IS3andME]

Here is my thing, the V12 LM that won Lemans had a SMG-type gearbox, I believe the "illegal" V8 M3 GTRs did as well, the M3 GTS does as well, all these cars were by "M" and PTG (for the M3 race cars, excluding the GT2) all these cars were "M" pure and all of them are race cars, which you can't get more "involving" than those.
So, I'm starting to think that they either A) don't want it ti step on big brother's toes, especially after they evaluated the protype with DCT or B) they rushed it.
Remember that Porsche didn't originally offer the PDK in the 997.1 Turbo because it at the time couldn't handle the torque. But after the GT-R handed it's ass to it, Porsche MADE it work... Coincidently, the more "driver focused" cars, the GT3 and GT3 RS, the GT2 and GT2 RS are MT, but the 918 Spyder Hybrid is PDK...odd.

[shadrach]

Based on everything I've read from Scott's posts it appears we are lucky this car is even being built, and especially lucky in the U.S. that is going to be sold here. I'll take the car even if it has 3-on-the-tree, white bucket seats and an 8-track player.

[Smokey]

Some of the comments in this thread are funny as hell. Driving a stick is not that complicated, yes it requires skill, but it doesn't determine your manhood. I will buy one if it's really good regardless of transmission. What bothers me though is that the lack of two transmissions might actually point to a rushed job,which might hamper the performance of this M. I don't understand how cost could have been a major factor in not offering DCT. At this point, it seems quite reasonable to assume that the 1M will have one of two engines: the N54 or N55. Both of these engines have some form of DCT: the Z4 35is is powered by the N54 and comes with DCT; the N55 powered 135i comes with an optional DCT, so how much effort is required to port this transmission to the 1M? The only thing that makes sense to me is that BMW is trying to position this car as a driver's car, if not, then the lack of choice of in transmissions might actually point to cost cutting in other areas-- I hope am wrong, but we will find out soon enough.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by penny

I can understand those wanting DCT to shave a few tenths of a seconds and that it's a better technology. But for those wanting it because of traffic? C'mon! Why are you in an M? If you're afraid to be seen in a cheap DD, you're compensating for your lack in other areas.

This makes no sense. Not everyone is going to track their car every weekend and drive a beater to work/school. Maybe not everyone can afford a beater after buying/leasing a car like the 1M. Having an ///M car isnt only about race times. Theres a large market of people, probably larger than the whole manual-elitist market, that enjoy having the power and stability of an ///M for when they want to take a spirited drive. Is that really a big deal?

Its evident why BMW has eliminated DCT for this car. If you believe its to "cater to the enthusiasts" then sorry, you have just been taken advantage of by BMWs Marketing team. DCT offers the technology to go beyond what a human can do when it comes to shifting, of course offering better times. Its possible that they were in a situation where the DCT 1M could have been stepping on the toes of the manual M3.

The biggest reason however, is BMWs creation of a new up-selling point for the M3. Offering it with DCT offers the "masses" a reason to spend more on an M3 for the comfort of gettting DCT. This strategy also further differentiates the M3 buer from the 1M buyer so as to not cannibalize M3 sales.

You macho-men who frown on automatic drivers forget your a very small portion of the population. This decision was not about you silly. Get over it.

[bz888]

What we need to understand is BMW is a business who's primary goal is to be profitable and provide a high return on capital.

Do you think they would come out and say, "We are not offering M-DCT because it will outperform the M3 and destabilise the M3 sales."?

Of course NOT! They will feed us stories like "Costs too Much" or "No Time to Develop" or "Trying to Reduce Weight".

We all know that the development time and cost excuse is NOT very convincing, since as mentioned earlier, DCT is offered with the N54 in the Z4 which is a RWD configuration.

Reduce Weight Argument? Well there are many simple ways to reduce weight before considering gearbox as an excuse. Options, Nav, Lightweight Materials etc.

Basically, they will add DCT to the 1M once the NEW M3 is on the market and the goal post has been moved.

I'm sorry, but this is plain internal politics and we get the bad end of the deal.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by Ash83

Great cars like Zonda, F1 come only with MT

Not so...


GT-R, 458, 430 Scuderia, Enzo, MP4-12C, etc. These are (or will be) great cars too. Saw a review of the LP570-4 in which the tester felt this car definitely is better with the eGear rather than the manual; it suits the car better. Those who have driven the M5 with the manual also feel SMG is the way to go. A car can still be genuinely engaging even with an automated transmission. With a DCT, you can do things you couldn't otherwise do in a manual, like shift up or down in mid-corner at the limit without loss of traction.

You're not a man unless you hand-crank your engine or jet your own carbs.

[penny]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

This makes no sense. Not everyone is going to track their car every weekend and drive a beater to work/school. Maybe not everyone can afford a beater after buying/leasing a car like the 1M. Having an ///M car isnt only about race times. Theres a large market of people, probably larger than the whole manual-elitist market, that enjoy having the power and stability of an ///M for when they want to take a spirited drive. Is that really a big deal?

You're absolutely right. You don't have to track every weekend or ever have to. It'll be a good fun car for everyday use. I was referring to some here that say they are in heavy traffic all the time. What's the point of owning an 1M, regardless of transmission, if you never see open roads? I sure hope you guys are exaggerating about the traffic in your city.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Guibo

With a DCT, you can do things you couldn't otherwise do in a manual, like shift up or down in mid-corner at the limit without loss of traction.

Isn't that what rev matching is for? I always thought you are supposed to downshift/brake (aka heel/toe) right before you enter a corner anyways.

[bz888]

Trust me, I don't think it's a space issue either. I am familiar with the Audi R-Tronic Gearbox. It's uses a standard 6 Speed MT Graziano Gearbox with Selector Actuators and control from Magneti Marrelli. The actuators and control unit would be the size of a medium size breakfast cereal box. Add some hydraulic lines and some fluid and your nearly done.

Besides, the 135i is available with DCT, hence i honest don't think "Space" is an issue. Fact is, BMW playing the 911 vs Cayman game!!

[Jaguar66]

I honestly think the reason for no DCT is as Scott explained. I believe the 1M car with a DCT will start to encroach on the M3s price. And to keep the interest in an entry level M car, they had to keep the cars price significantly lower than an M3s price. A highly optioned 135i already gets relatively close to the highly discounted M3s that are sitting around.

The initially released non discounted MT versions of the 1M are already going to start to get close to the discounted M3s. That would spell suicide for the 1M. People already think the 135i is too costly, especially a fully optioned one. If the DCT 1M costs as much as a manual transmissioned M3, BMW will lose, since the 1M won't be as attractive.

I really do believe it has to do with price structure getting closer to the M3.

[bz888]

Originally Posted by Guibo

Not so...


GT-R, 458, 430 Scuderia, Enzo, MP4-12C, etc. These are (or will be) great cars too. Saw a review of the LP570-4 in which the tester felt this car definitely is better with the eGear rather than the manual; it suits the car better. Those who have driven the M5 with the manual also feel SMG is the way to go. A car can still be genuinely engaging even with an automated transmission. With a DCT, you can do things you couldn't otherwise do in a manual, like shift up or down in mid-corner at the limit without loss of traction.

I totally agree!

I bet if you surveyed anyone that has OWNED not just driven an SMG II or SMG III or M-DCT or Ferrari F1 or F1 Superfast or Latest Gen E-Gear they would say this:

Good sequential manual gearboxes actually ADD MORE driver enjoyment. How bout the Snap in the Head when the next gear engages, or the incredibly consistent Launches using LC or the snap, crackle and pop you get between gear changes or the seamless, un-interrupted power delivery and the beautiful sound perfectly matched downshifts, etc etc?

Once again, each to there own, but seriously, if you haven't owned and lived with one, you can't cast judgement so easily!

[NavM]

Well said bz888.

It is a disappointment for me. I've driven manuals for 16 years. Owned nothing but a proper manual until I got the M5 nearly 2 years ago. I've come to like the SMG and DCT and I was looking forward to getting this car with M-DCT. I would have gotten it but the advantage of M-DCT in terms of performance, fun and its suitability for family use make it a necessity. I guess I'll have to wait until the next generation 1M arrives in 2014.

[Cornhusker]

If not dct im out. I'm too lazy to shift. I only drive fast 1% of the time. It's okay, I'll just wait for the 2014 model.

It's really ignorant to assume an individual's characteristics based on which transmission they prefer. I guess all the F1 drivers are weak and don't get laid much?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by bz888

Trust me, I don't think it's a space issue either. I am familiar with the Audi R-Tronic Gearbox. It's uses a standard 6 Speed MT Graziano Gearbox with Selector Actuators and control from Magneti Marrelli. The actuators and control unit would be the size of a medium size breakfast cereal box. Add some hydraulic lines and some fluid and your nearly done.

Besides, the 135i is available with DCT, hence i honest don't think "Space" is an issue. Fact is, BMW playing the 911 vs Cayman game!!

I love the cayman :P

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by Robert

I love the cayman :P

Superb car

[Future M1 owner]

I'll (again) bypass the whole manliness discussion and assumptions about DCT lovers not being able to operate a MT properly, and just reiterate that I'm disappointed that their expected fastest track/"clubsport" vehicle will not be made available with their fastest transmission option.

Note the use of "available" and "option", not "standard".

And I like (and track) MT's just fine, BTW.

Yes, even on a DD/stop-go vehicle.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Isn't that what rev matching is for? I always thought you are supposed to downshift/brake (aka heel/toe) right before you enter a corner anyways.

But your corner speed and exit speed may not always match the ideal engine rpm. With the DCT, you still downshift before the turn, but in the turn itself (and in technical sections with many consecutive turns of different radii), you can have more options than to "ride out" the section in whatever gear you chose going in.

Speaking of rev-matching on downshifts, most reviews of the automatic rev-matching feature of the 370Z (still a manual transmission) have been very positive. Goes to show that even when you remove what would appear to be another layer of mechanical involvement, there's still fun in driving the car, and fun in using a feature that should theoretically make it less fun. And fun is kind of the point in a car like that. It's not less fun. It's just a different kind of fun.

Originally Posted by bz888

Good sequential manual gearboxes actually ADD MORE driver enjoyment. How bout the Snap in the Head when the next gear engages, or the incredibly consistent Launches using LC or the snap, crackle and pop you get between gear changes or the seamless, un-interrupted power delivery and the beautiful sound perfectly matched downshifts, etc etc?

Indeed. These are some great quotes from Evo and Autocar on the GT-R and Scuderia:
"The twin clutch upshifts have more in common with automatic rifle fire than meshing cogs."
"Every time an upshift is actioned within a few hundredths of a second, you marvel at how such a feat can be acheived, and you also accept that you could never have done such a thing yourself. Consequently, you then accept that it brings an extra dimension to the driving experience."
"The way it goes through with a BAP! so loud it rips the air, the way it sounds just like a Formula 1 shift, the way it is as fast as Schuey’s 2004 F1 shift, all combine to make it one of the truly great automotive experiences."

[Breyton E36]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

I WILL NOT PURCHASE IT W/OUT DCT.

It is the best gearbox they make for a boosted car, period!

You are not shifting fast enough then, i have an STI so its MT and it never falls off boost when im hooting around.