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      05-03-2018, 09:46 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
You are right about the reduced downforce . And that was because Daniel was in Max his slipstream . But by the reduced downforce of the slipstream , he had lack of grip from his front tires and his brakes locked up like crazy !
That's why we can see all the smoke from hell coming from his brakes BEFORE the collision , and before he SLIDED into Max.

You guys seem also to forget , that they came from the straight at topspeed and the apex was VERY NEAR (left 90 turn) was only 100 meters in front of them !
This was not the right place , and not the right moment to try something like an overtake !
*IF* Daniel could pass Max . He was not able to make it , at that speed through the left turn .

AMEN !
You're doubting Daniel's ability to make that manoeuvre stick?...Daniel...Ricciardo...
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      05-04-2018, 12:09 AM   #90
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Both drivers were at fault.

There...done.
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      05-04-2018, 12:14 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
You are right about the reduced downforce . And that was because Daniel was in Max his slipstream . But by the reduced downforce of the slipstream , he had lack of grip from his front tires and his brakes locked up like crazy !
That's why we can see all the smoke from hell coming from his brakes BEFORE the collision , and before he SLIDED into Max.

You guys seem also to forget , that they came from the straight at topspeed and the apex was VERY NEAR (left 90 turn) was only 100 meters in front of them !
This was not the right place , and not the right moment to try something like an overtake !
*IF* Daniel could pass Max . He was not able to make it , at that speed through the left turn .

AMEN !

I get it. You're a Max fan. But that doesn't excuse you not accepting the truth.

Just before entering the braking zone, Dani was pointing directly at an approximate 2 car width gap and was not in Max's slipstream. Fact.

Daniel was travelling faster. Fact

Daniel also has a supernatural feel for the brakes and demonstrated this repeatedly in previous races. You've witnessed this, right?

The collision was caused as a direct consequence of Max moving directly in front of Daniel and not leaving a car width gap. Fact.

Most pundits believe that Max moved more than once to defend and opinion is that this wasn't right.

(I believe that the only reason that Charlie hasn't penalised Max is that it was an offence that meant the RB Team lost *everything* already and that the Team need to sort this out. Penalising Max would penalise the RB Team further when they have already experience a significant loss themselves, so it would be harsh to penalise the Team even further.)

Finally, if anybody has the skill to overtake on the inside at turn 1, Daniel is top if that list at the present moment.

I'm not getting into debate about who is the better driver. They're both amazing. But the fact is that Daniel was the faster on the day. He'd already passed Max once. Brilliantly. Despite Max's clumsy antics. That wheel bash was totally out of order. Daniel was indisputably the faster.

It was Max's move that "stole" Daniel's downforce and caused the collision by leaving the faster car nowhere to go. He ought not to have done that. Particularly against a team mate.

Peace dude

Mark H
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      05-04-2018, 07:54 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium
You are right about the reduced downforce . And that was because Daniel was in Max his slipstream . But by the reduced downforce of the slipstream , he had lack of grip from his front tires and his brakes locked up like crazy !
That's why we can see all the smoke from hell coming from his brakes BEFORE the collision , and before he SLIDED into Max.

You guys seem also to forget , that they came from the straight at topspeed and the apex was VERY NEAR (left 90 turn) was only 100 meters in front of them !
This was not the right place , and not the right moment to try something like an overtake !
*IF* Daniel could pass Max . He was not able to make it , at that speed through the left turn .

AMEN !
Maybe you didn't watch the race after VES crashed out. But Bottas showed how to handle a situation where the car behind will overshoot the corner.

VET came in very late and didn't make the corner but Bottas didn't move in the braking zone, didn't cause a crash and didn't lose his place.

So it's a moot point of Daniel was or wasn't going to make the corner, VES didn't know how to handle the situation and caused a crash where others are able to race a lot more intelligently.
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      05-04-2018, 09:05 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
... ... ...

Brawn's assessment:
"But I would like to highlight a technical point. Once Daniel had settled for his line, and Max had changed direction blocking that line, the Australian became a passenger.

"The downforce loss experienced by Ricciardo in the wake of Verstappen's car would have made it unstoppable.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...-in-baku-clash

I don't know why anyone is still arguing that Max made 2 moves (although the second move was more like a slide into position --- but still the 2nd move as he didn't keep the same racing line he established when he made the 1st move)

Even Brawn, who knows more about F1 racing than anyone on these boards combined, even eluded to that fact when he stated " and Max had changed direction blocking that line" ... which clearly is the 'I don't want to access total blame' for Max maneuvering his car a second time.


Let's not forget that these drivers are extremely conscious of where their cars are on the track ... Max knew what he was doing by sliding back to the preferred racing line. In every sport athletes "bend" the rules a bit to gain an edge, and Max has made a very successful racing career bending these rules. The difference is when an F1 driver does this and is unsuccessful ... it causes a crash or at least risks someone's life. There's no "Red Cards" given in F1.


The best thing to happen due to the crash is .... we are all still talking about it. This is something that every sport wants --- constant discussions regarding their sport. For good or for bad.

Last edited by N52UNED; 05-04-2018 at 09:12 AM..
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      05-04-2018, 11:39 AM   #94
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With the amount of "agree to disagree" discussion going on after this race, I know this season is going to be great!
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      05-04-2018, 12:10 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
With the amount of "agree to disagree" discussion going on after this race, I know this season is going to be great!
Yeah ... Right On!

I just hope Ferrari doesn't shit the bed like the last year ... and Red Bull keeps the DNF's to a minimum. Renault has the promise of Force India of last year ... perhaps Hulk can get a bit more fire under his ass and challenge Carlos a bit more --- even though I'm sure Carlos will be heading to Red Bull principle team when Danni Ricci leaves at the end of the year (assuming he probably will).

Hopefully Seb takes the championship to keep things even between him and Ham for next season. Two 5x Champs going at it will be quite a sight. Plus I'd really like to see the end of Merc run for a bit. Without Ham and Nico going at it ... Merc's dominance has become quite monotonous.


*** Has anyone heard anymore about the Ham/Merc - Seb/Ferrari switch for next season? I'm of the mind that it's just scuttlebutt garbage ... but you never know when Ferrari is involved.
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      05-04-2018, 02:34 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
With the amount of "agree to disagree" discussion going on after this race, I know this season is going to be great!
We will see. Now the race for car updates begins.

Plus, not to jinx any team...but reliability has not been tested. 1 or 2 untimely DNF's can ruin a season.
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      05-04-2018, 06:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
I get it. You're a Max fan. But that doesn't excuse you not accepting the truth.

Just before entering the braking zone, Dani was pointing directly at an approximate 2 car width gap and was not in Max's slipstream. Fact.

Daniel was travelling faster. Fact

Daniel also has a supernatural feel for the brakes and demonstrated this repeatedly in previous races. You've witnessed this, right?

The collision was caused as a direct consequence of Max moving directly in front of Daniel and not leaving a car width gap. Fact.

Most pundits believe that Max moved more than once to defend and opinion is that this wasn't right.

(I believe that the only reason that Charlie hasn't penalised Max is that it was an offence that meant the RB Team lost *everything* already and that the Team need to sort this out. Penalising Max would penalise the RB Team further when they have already experience a significant loss themselves, so it would be harsh to penalise the Team even further.)

Finally, if anybody has the skill to overtake on the inside at turn 1, Daniel is top if that list at the present moment.

I'm not getting into debate about who is the better driver. They're both amazing. But the fact is that Daniel was the faster on the day. He'd already passed Max once. Brilliantly. Despite Max's clumsy antics. That wheel bash was totally out of order. Daniel was indisputably the faster.

It was Max's move that "stole" Daniel's downforce and caused the collision by leaving the faster car nowhere to go. He ought not to have done that. Particularly against a team mate.

Peace dude

Mark H
Of course I'm a Max fan...
But no worries , I love Daniel 2 !
Peace my friend *God bless Red Bull* !
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      05-04-2018, 06:41 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
With the amount of "agree to disagree" discussion going on after this race, I know this season is going to be great!
I agree. Like I said...*The Thrill is on* !
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      05-04-2018, 06:45 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax240 View Post
Maybe you didn't watch the race after VES crashed out. But Bottas showed how to handle a situation where the car behind will overshoot the corner.

VET came in very late and didn't make the corner but Bottas didn't move in the braking zone, didn't cause a crash and didn't lose his place.

So it's a moot point of Daniel was or wasn't going to make the corner, VES didn't know how to handle the situation and caused a crash where others are able to race a lot more intelligently.
I watched the whole race . And I saw the situation .
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      05-04-2018, 06:51 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteckba View Post
You're doubting Daniel's ability to make that manoeuvre stick?...Daniel...Ricciardo...
Check this out....


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