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      07-13-2019, 09:07 AM   #89
MKSixer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
I agree with this statement. But trump bears as much responsibility for it as the democrats. He doesn't want to work with people. He is a divisive personality.

As for the unemployment, wages, economy, etc., those weren't trumps doing. The economy turned around under obama, and it has continued on essentially the same trajectory under trump. Also, the economy makes absolutely no difference in this equation. He doesn't get a pass for being a piece of shit because the economy is doing ok.

As for demeaning the government, i have read no end of posts on this forum from conservatives who are convinced the government is a bunch of deep state liberals who are hell bent on destroying the country. Ridiculous. Like, flat earth ridiculous.
You just lost all credibility when you said that the economic results were Mr. Obama's. Mr. Obama never had the economic growth that Mr. Trump has, indeed he stated that the days of 3% economic growth are over.

Please walk away from the emotional information processing that so many who hate Mr. Trump employ and look at objective realities. The country is doing far better economically under Mr. Trump and it's because of the roll-back of onerous regulations, compliance burdens and many other factors.

I wish you good fortune and peace. Your position on this is unreasonable and based on emotion and not facts.

Cheers-mk
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Last edited by MKSixer; 07-13-2019 at 09:25 AM..
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      07-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You just lost all credibility when you said that the economic results were Mr. Obama's. Mr. Obama never had the economic growth that Mr. Trump has, indeed he stated that the days of 3% economic growth are over.

Please walk away from the emotional information processing that so many who hate Mr. Trump employ and look at objective realities. The country is doing far better economically under Mr. Trump and it's because of the roll-back of onerous regulations, compliance burdens and many other factors.

I wish you good fortune and peace. Your position on this is unreasonable and based on emotion and not facts.



Cheers-mk
ok...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#3cc789c175ef







GDP graph from https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/spinning-gdp/:



Edit: Also, to be clear, I said the economy turned around under obama, I didn't say that obama turned the economy around. I think presidents generally get more credit/blame for the economy than they deserve. I don't think Bush deserves all the blame for the shit show the economy was in when he left, and I don't think trump deserves much credit for the continued positive economic trends that were ongoing when obama left office.

Last edited by cjb762; 07-13-2019 at 11:02 AM..
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      07-13-2019, 11:08 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You just lost all credibility when you said that the economic results were Mr. Obama's. Mr. Obama never had the economic growth that Mr. Trump has, indeed he stated that the days of 3% economic growth are over.

Please walk away from the emotional information processing that so many who hate Mr. Trump employ and look at objective realities. The country is doing far better economically under Mr. Trump and it's because of the roll-back of onerous regulations, compliance burdens and many other factors.

I wish you good fortune and peace. Your position on this is unreasonable and based on emotion and not facts.

Cheers-mk
ok...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/02/13/6-reasons-trump-did-not-inherit-a-mess-from-obama/#3cc789c175ef







GDP graph from https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/spinning-gdp/:
I think you're both giving too much credit to your respective favorite candidates for economic conditions under their presidencies. Obama inherited an economy in the midst of the economic collapse in 2008. It had no where to go but up. His fed (more to their credit than his own) lowered rates, spurring investment and growth and the economy recovered. To his credit he didn't do anything to stop the recovery. Trump inherited a growing economy, did a few things that boosted growth to a slightly higher rate, but to his credit he (and counter to the dem's pre-election apocalyptic warnings) did not cause it to reverse or collapse.

Both of them grew the economy at the expense of an ever growing debt burden. Everyone uses GDP as a measure of economic success, but it's a faulty measure. GDP is like your annual salary. 100k a year is great, and 200k a year is even better all else being equal, but if you have a million in debt at 100k a year salary and then grow it to 2 million in debt at 200k a year, that's not "better." Net worth is a much better measure because it takes earnings, spending, and debt accumulation into account. Unfortunately, there is no publicized national economic metric that corresponds to net worth or wealth.
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      07-13-2019, 11:18 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
I think you're both giving too much credit to your respective favorite candidates for economic conditions under their presidencies. Obama inherited an economy in the midst of the economic collapse in 2008. It had no where to go but up. His fed (more to their credit than his own) lowered rates, spurring investment and growth and the economy recovered. To his credit he didn't do anything to stop the recovery. Trump inherited a growing economy, did a few things that boosted growth to a slightly higher rate, but to his credit he (and counter to the dem's pre-election apocalyptic warnings) did not cause it to reverse or collapse.

Both of them grew the economy at the expense of an ever growing debt burden. Everyone uses GDP as a measure of economic success, but it's a faulty measure. GDP is like your annual salary. 100k a year is great, and 200k a year is even better all else being equal, but if you have a million in debt at 100k a year salary and then grow it to 2 million in debt at 200k a year, that's not "better." Net worth is a much better measure because it takes earnings, spending, and debt accumulation into account. Unfortunately, there is no publicized national economic metric that corresponds to net worth or wealth.
Agreed. And you must have started this before I posted my edit at the bottom re: not giving presidents a lot of credit/blame for the economy...
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      07-13-2019, 01:53 PM   #93
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@MKSixer I kinda like prancing. Salad, I'm afraid to watch
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      07-13-2019, 02:22 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
ok...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#3cc789c175ef







GDP graph from https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/spinning-gdp/:



Edit: Also, to be clear, I said the economy turned around under obama, I didn't say that obama turned the economy around. I think presidents generally get more credit/blame for the economy than they deserve. I don't think Bush deserves all the blame for the shit show the economy was in when he left, and I don't think trump deserves much credit for the continued positive economic trends that were ongoing when obama left office.
He writes hit pieces against Mr. Trump. Read the rest of his writings.

We agree somewhat on the credit but the creeping regulatory strangulation had a negative effect on the economy. Everyone who isn't a Trump hater recognizes that the economy is doing better under Mr. Trump. We are at, effectively, full employment. The lowest rates in 51 years. Why is everyone trying to talk down the economy.
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Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...
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      07-13-2019, 02:46 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post


He writes hit pieces against Mr. Trump. Read the rest of his writings.

We agree somewhat on the credit but the creeping regulatory strangulation had a negative effect on the economy. Everyone who isn't a Trump hater recognizes that the economy is doing better under Mr. Trump. We are at, effectively, full employment. The lowest rates in 51 years. Why is everyone trying to talk down the economy.

So are you saying you think the numbers in the article/graphs are wrong?

I'm not talking down the economy, I'm basically saying this:

1. The economy was good and improving before trump took office.

2. The current state of the economy is due to a large number of factors, and any contribution personally made by any president is fairly minimal.

3. Any argument that we should ignore or excuse a politicians moral, ethical, or legal failings because the economy is "doing good", is a poor argument.
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      07-13-2019, 08:40 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
I agree with this statement. But trump bears as much responsibility for it as the democrats. He doesn't want to work with people. He is a divisive personality.

As for the unemployment, wages, economy, etc., those weren't trumps doing. The economy turned around under obama, and it has continued on essentially the same trajectory under trump. Also, the economy makes absolutely no difference in this equation. He doesn't get a pass for being a piece of shit because the economy is doing ok.

As for demeaning the government, i have read no end of posts on this forum from conservatives who are convinced the government is a bunch of deep state liberals who are hell bent on destroying the country. Ridiculous. Like, flat earth ridiculous.
Oh..please...
The Democrats have been so eager to help fix immigration. Notice how much legislation they are working on behalf of the american people...Wait..they aren't 189 investigations on trump and his family for the past 2.5 years on how many times any of them get up in the middle of the night to pee. Going and harassing trump family when they go out to eat. What are folks like you gonna' do when CNN goes out of business. They are in business bc of liberal donors. Good luck to you.
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      07-13-2019, 10:48 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
I agree with this statement. But trump bears as much responsibility for it as the democrats. He doesn't want to work with people. He is a divisive personality.

As for the unemployment, wages, economy, etc., those weren't trumps doing. The economy turned around under obama, and it has continued on essentially the same trajectory under trump. Also, the economy makes absolutely no difference in this equation. He doesn't get a pass for being a piece of shit because the economy is doing ok.

As for demeaning the government, i have read no end of posts on this forum from conservatives who are convinced the government is a bunch of deep state liberals who are hell bent on destroying the country. Ridiculous. Like, flat earth ridiculous.
Oh..please...
The Democrats have been so eager to help fix immigration. Notice how much legislation they are working on behalf of the american people...Wait..they aren't 189 investigations on trump and his family for the past 2.5 years on how many times any of them get up in the middle of the night to pee. Going and harassing trump family when they go out to eat. What are folks like you gonna' do when CNN goes out of business. They are in business bc of liberal donors. Good luck to you.
I know I know

They will switch over and get their brainwashing at MSNBC
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      07-15-2019, 10:29 AM   #98
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vandalism.html

I cannot think of one past president in my memory, Republican or Democrat, who would be this petty to do something like this. However, I can without a doubt see Trump doing this for this simple reason just because he is this childish and petty.


Sir Kim’s Iran memo was sent in May 2018, after Mr Johnson – who was then Foreign Secretary – had been dispatched to Washington to make a last ditch plea to President Trump not to abandon the nuclear deal with Iran designed to prevent the regime from building an atomic bomb.

Despite a frantic 26 hours of meetings with Trump’s closest advisers, it became clear that the President was not going to change his mind.

After Mr Johnson returned to London, Sir Kim told No 10 in a ‘diptel’ (diplomatic telegram) that Mr Trump’s Administration was ‘set upon an act of diplomatic vandalism’. The Ambassador wrote that Mr Trump appeared to be abandoning the deal for ‘personality reasons’ because it had been agreed by his predecessor Barack Obama.

Sir Kim suggested there were splits among the President’s closest advisers and said the White House lacked a ‘day-after’ strategy on what to do following withdrawal from the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, as the deal was called.



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