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      04-30-2018, 10:22 AM   #23
ztx84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
WHAT?? you dont drive like that with your teammate though!!! I am more shocked nowadays when I dont see an accident caused by Vercrashin.
I ask myself what I would do if I was Verstappen... I'd move and close the door too. Its really easy for us to say "oh, you've got to leave room" but these guys are racers and I love watching them (when they don't crash). Ricciardo had to go for it, Verstappen had to try and defend and the inevitable result was a crash. Its just racing at the end of the day, they are both trying to be top dog at the team, and as soon as one backs off or gives in then that's it they are "number 2"... Its going to be great to watch them this season - the RBR chassis is brilliant, let down by the engine, but the battle between Ricciardo and Verstappen promises to be good theatre!!
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      04-30-2018, 10:37 AM   #24
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Any more crashes between the teammates in RBR camp, the team will lose valuable points and drop in constructors championship and millions of dollars in prize money.
Although RBR seems quite safe in P3, but they could've get much closer to Merc/Ferrari and they trip over themselves this season.

I still think Max is still racing with his instinct, not with his brain yet. With the amount of randomness going on this season, make sure you stay on track first, you will never know what you ended up with.

With the way he move, even if its legal, but think about the opponent behind that might crash into you. RIC in this case had committed to the inside when Max first moved to the right; and when Max moved back to cover the inside. His car had blocked half of the RIC front wing, and RIC lost half of his front downforce helping him to slowdown, and easier to lock up.
That all occurred the moment just before the braking zone.
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      04-30-2018, 11:06 AM   #25
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VES is approaching Crastor Maldonado-type numbers. He's a menace and needs to be spoken with ASAP.
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      04-30-2018, 11:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
Ric was waaay to optimistic, especially given who he was trying to pass.
Are you saying that Ric is not permitted to pass Max, or maybe nobody is permitted to pass him, because he will wreck you? What is this NASCAR?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztx84 View Post
... and Daniel came in far too hot… So they are both at fault.
No he did not come in too hot. He needed to use all of his momentum to execute the pass. He successfully faked Vercrashin into moving right, then moved left. His Highness then moved back left and caused the accident. It really is that simple.
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Max is clearly going through a learning process, he needs to sort out his finer judgement calls, modify his aggression a little bit, and then I think he will be unbeatable.
If he continues to have a seat in a competitive car. A few more incidents like these last few and he could be relegated to Toro Rosso. Worse, end up like Kubica with an injury that stifles his career. He's not invulnerable even if he drives as though he is.

I should qualify my Max comments. I think he has massive talent. But I see flaws too. If he fixes them he will be tremendous. If he doesn't he won't be.
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      04-30-2018, 01:19 PM   #27
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My opinion is that RIC took a risk and VES was a bit reckless (the entire race), and it resulted in a racing incident. It's a shame because I am a huge fan of RIC and his driving, but I think most could see it coming based on how the race had gone between the two RBR cars.

The RBR incident aside, anybody else surprised at Ferrari's tire strategy? Maybe I missed something, but I felt like they really made a mistake putting VET on the yellow softs. At this point they were more than half way through the race, and VET seemed to be managing his wear very well, and they already knew HAM was struggling with bringing the yellows up to temperature. It seemed like they could have put him on the ultra-softs (even if it meant extending the yellows further) which would have put him in a good position for the end of the race.
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      04-30-2018, 01:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Are you saying that Ric is not permitted to pass Max, or maybe nobody is permitted to pass him, because he will wreck you? What is this NASCAR?
No he did not come in too hot. He needed to use all of his momentum to execute the pass. He successfully faked Vercrashin into moving right, then moved left. His Highness then moved back left and caused the accident. It really is that simple.
If he continues to have a seat in a competitive car. A few more incidents like these last few and he could be relegated to Toro Rosso. Worse, end up like Kubica with an injury that stifles his career. He's not invulnerable even if he drives as though he is.

I should qualify my Max comments. I think he has massive talent. But I see flaws too. If he fixes them he will be tremendous. If he doesn't he won't be.
My friend ,I'm waiting patiently for a race in the rain ...Than we will talk further and Max too !
Do you remember Brazil ?

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      04-30-2018, 01:56 PM   #29
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Wow, can't believe no one pointed out the real 'idiot of the day'...hats off to Grosjean for taking himself out into a wall during a yellow
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      04-30-2018, 02:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztx84 View Post
Its really easy for us to say "oh, you've got to leave room" but these guys are racers. Verstappen had to try and defend and the inevitable result was a crash.
Complete bull. So every attempted pass inevitably results in a crash? There's nothing inevitable about a driver who consciously decides to make illegal moves to block any passing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstar93 View Post
My opinion is that RIC took a risk and VES was a bit reckless (the entire race), and it resulted in a racing incident.
What risk did RIC take? He had much more speed, and he was in-control enough to change from an outside to inside pass. To say this was a risk, is to admit that VER is too reckless to pass; and if so, he shouldn't be driving in F1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstar93 View Post
The RBR incident aside, anybody else surprised at Ferrari's tire strategy? Maybe I missed something, but I felt like they really made a mistake putting VET on the yellow softs. At this point they were more than half way through the race, and VET seemed to be managing his wear very well, and they already knew HAM was struggling with bringing the yellows up to temperature. It seemed like they could have put him on the ultra-softs (even if it meant extending the yellows further) which would have put him in a good position for the end of the race.
Vettel was once-again screwed by the safety car appearance, which put him in an unfavorable position, which couldn't have been predicted.
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      04-30-2018, 02:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
Complete bull. So every attempted pass inevitably results in a crash? There's nothing inevitable about a driver who consciously decides to make illegal moves to block any passing.


What risk did RIC take? He had much more speed, and he was in-control enough to change from an outside to inside pass. To say this was a risk, is to admit that VER is too reckless to pass; and if so, he shouldn't be driving in F1.


Vettel was once-again screwed by the safety car appearance, which put him in an unfavorable position, which couldn't have been predicted.
Well no... obviously not every pass should risk a crash, and most passes don't, but my point is if any driver doesn't try to hold position in a marginal overtake and basically says "after you sir..." then to my mind they should put away their helmet and give up racing. If it was me I'd have moved like Verstappen did to cover the inside line, but I appreciate that is a high risk move, and people might well disagree etc.
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      04-30-2018, 03:37 PM   #32
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Definitely the most entertaining race of the year thanks to Crash. Bumping his teammate several times in the course of the race just affirmed he's the man to watch as he could take out anyone at anytime. The immediate reactions of Horner and Newey was interesting as was Wolff's reaction to poor Bottas's blowout. Vettel looses his cool and his podium. Perez, Kimi and Hamilton all get lucky. If you think Crash might 'mature' into a champion (and I don't think this sport gives you that many years to emotionally grow up) he's probably going to be much more like Vettel than Hamilton.
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      04-30-2018, 04:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pseto View Post
Wow, can't believe no one pointed out the real 'idiot of the day'...hats off to Grosjean for taking himself out into a wall during a yellow
Eh, not unlike what Bottas did last year. Just that he was in between two walls instead of grass.
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      04-30-2018, 04:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pseto View Post
Wow, can't believe no one pointed out the real 'idiot of the day'...hats off to Grosjean for taking himself out into a wall during a yellow
Correction: Ericsson put Grosjean on the wall. lol.
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      04-30-2018, 04:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtxzptlk View Post
Correction: Ericsson put Grosjean on the wall. lol.
#BlameEricsson
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      04-30-2018, 04:54 PM   #36
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Folks......

Please no Senna/Max comparisons at this time.

Thanks.
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      04-30-2018, 05:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Folks......

Please no Senna/Max comparisons at this time.

Thanks.
Remember Senna.
Leaving us only the memory of his talent 24 years ago tomorrow.
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      04-30-2018, 06:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Remember Senna.
Leaving us only the memory of his talent 24 years ago tomorrow.
24 years ago, unbelievable. That horrible weekend was 24 years ago? Remember it so well unfortunately.
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      04-30-2018, 07:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztx84 View Post
Well no... obviously not every pass should risk a crash, and most passes don't, but my point is if any driver doesn't try to hold position in a marginal overtake and basically says "after you sir..." then to my mind they should put away their helmet and give up racing. If it was me I'd have moved like Verstappen did to cover the inside line, but I appreciate that is a high risk move, and people might well disagree etc.
You keep advocating for making illegal moves. It's not a matter of choice; it's following vs violating the rules. Rules exist to prevent crashes. Yes, there are plenty of "racing incidents", but intentionally making a double move is not one. If you're a fan of violating the rules of racing, I wouldn't boast about it.
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      04-30-2018, 07:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pseto View Post
Wow, can't believe no one pointed out the real 'idiot of the day'...hats off to Grosjean for taking himself out into a wall during a yellow
And blaming it on someone who wasn't even close to hitting him! I've never overcome his recklessness at Spa 2012. I can't believe he still has a seat.
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      04-30-2018, 08:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtxzptlk View Post
Correction: Ericsson put Grosjean on the wall. lol.
I died when he said that guess he missed the 50 cameras filming him
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      04-30-2018, 08:31 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
Vettel was once-again screwed by the safety car appearance, which put him in an unfavorable position, which couldn't have been predicted.
Somehow Max took him out again, but without being anywhere near him this time!
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      05-01-2018, 09:26 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
In lap 40 ,Ricciardo was in the slipstream behind Max . Ricciardo braked too late and his brakes locked up .
Of course , during the race there was also lack of team orders from Horner ...Later after the race Horner said , We have to make sure it doesn't happen again and he blames both !
From what I saw was...The whole race was actually a mess !
Agreed ... the whole race was a mess. Entertaining and frustrating all at the same time. Definitely wasn't a boring race.

Although I truly do like Max both as a driver and as a person ... he's gotta learn to be a better team mate. Racing your team mate in good sporting fun is one thing, but he banged wheels with Danni and quite frankly, did 2 moves on him, which caused the crash (perhaps 1.5 moves).

Max darn well knew that sliding back to the racing line would impede Danni's ability to pass. In all honestly, I believe Max should have a couple points taken off his super-license because of it. He's just gotta lean ... one move is ONE move. He has a long history of this (before F1) and it seems that he didn't learn.

Regarding team orders ... I understand Horner's lack of giving team orders ... but he should've told Max to calm down and if Danni has a chance to pass, not to race him that hard. Max has took Danni out last season by hard racing (something Danni hasn't forgotten ... and won't let Max forget either. Although he's a good guy and does it in a "ball-busting" way).

Heck, even the announcers were bringing up how this reminded them of Perez and Ocon. It was the same result between Perez and Ocon and Seb and Webber ... heck Ham and Rosberg ended up with the same result ... and look what happened between Seb / Webber and Ham / Rosberg ... it ended up splitting the team in two and put way too much pressure on the team. Ham and Rosberg didn't have a clue that Niki Lauda was looking to replace both drivers if it happened again. If Red Bull seriously wants to resign Ricci ... they'd better do something and quick ... it's obvious that he already has one foot out the door; and quite frankly, I don't blame him.

Last edited by N52UNED; 05-01-2018 at 09:36 AM..
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      05-01-2018, 10:21 AM   #44
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In the Turbo 6 era Mercedes' dominance have made it pretty boring and the most entertaining thing about F1 was Crashtor. This year we finally have close competition between Ferrari-Mercedes-Red Bull plus the added bonus of seeing Crashtor 2.0- what a time to be an F1 fan

Gut feeling is he'll crash out of at least a third of the races. I just hope he doesn't take out the other 5 with him so they can race each other.
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