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      07-20-2019, 04:48 AM   #177
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The new Vette looks badass! I've never been into them but I might have to grow out my mullet and go for it

If this is the direction that BMW is going my next car after this ///M4 could be a Chevy.

Here's what the radical G80 M3 will look like! BIMMERPOST renderings https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1635123
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      07-20-2019, 05:39 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
I am skeptical about reliability and quality. The exhaust temps on this base Stingray are as high as the current ZR1, according to Chevy. How is this thing not supposed to heat soak during a track day in hotter weather? All for the sake of having rear storage for the targa tops or golf bags instead of additional heat dissipation at the rear. Are their engineers that good that they were able to work around this? It has been described as a "packaging miracle," but there are no free lunches in the world of engineering. Where have other compromises been made?

The interior is gross, yet again. Higher quality materials and less plastic - sounds great, but what about the claustrophobic seating arrangement with what seems like an even taller "wall" between the driver and passenger seats closing you in? And the crooked auxiliary tablet thingy just to the right of the steering wheel and the equally unsightly "spine" made of black plastic buttons? At least Porsche can disguise their buttons a bit better and not have them be a focal point of the interior space. A square steering wheel that would suck to live with on a daily basis... no, thank you. I'll take my steering wheel round and functional all day over this gimmicky thing. Porsche and BMW still do round wheels for a reason! The seats look legit in terms of lateral support, but that's the only appealing thing I can come up with for this interior.

Styling is subjective, but the front and rear look too much like the C7 for me to be excited. I just see this car as a mid-engined version of what Chevy already had, which, again, scares me from a potential reliability and serviceability nightmare perspective. The side scoops look cool, but the fact that they are also a part of the door makes me wonder how much they'll stick out and how easy it will be to bash them into my garage walls, parked cars, etc.

I will reserve final judgment for when real owners start providing feedback on track day performance, real world reliability, livability, etc. For now, I just see it as a car that has a lot to prove before I can jump on the "supercar for Supra money" bandwagon.
Man, you need to get over to Joe's Custom Trucks and pick a "Piss on Chevy" sticker for the back glass of your 2-series.
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      07-20-2019, 05:46 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Considering I just started a new job, I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a new car just yet. Maybe by the time I am Chevy will offer the ability to assemble my own engine on the C8. 🔧

Side benefit is I'd be buying American instead of supporting Germany, a country that won't even stop doing business with Iran and Russia. 🇺🇸
And pay for the privilege? That's one thing I never understood...you pay to build your own motor.
I see a value in assembling my own engine. As a gear head, I think that is cool as hell!
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      07-20-2019, 05:50 AM   #180
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I have struggled with vettes.

Drawn to the 1st and 2nd gen z06 and then I sit in one and.....ugh.....Pontiac Sunbird interior. Gross.

Now the C8 is a different animal.

I am trying to reconcile my lust for this car......


Of course no way in hell I am buying a Chevrolet product with a new from the ground up Tremec DCT. I'll let someone else do quality control on that. And I'll let the dealer mark up die down. And the Gods of depreciation do their job.

But I have been looking at Caymans....and this represents an incredible value compared to the Cayman. Of course it is highly unlikely to have the Porsche feel and quality interior....but we can hope!!!

So Maybe 4-5 years out? Have to check back in this thread and see what I end up.

Hope Chevy got the quality right
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      07-20-2019, 05:52 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Mvy View Post
Yes. You spend your entire time inside the car so if the interior is not nice, its a problem to me. Looks like the C7 took care of a lot of the concerns I had with the interior. Cant wait to see this car!
I drive one way to work 80 miles, about 1 hour 50 minutes each way, so about 20 hours a week. My daily is mostly my 2006 E90, which is a base 325i with a sport package covered in beige Sensatec. Some how for the past 12 years I've been able to survive driving it. I also have a '08 E86 Z4 with the extended leather interior and M-sport seats. I drive that once a week. I have to say I feel no different after the drive in either car. I mean, I'm not sitting ass-naked on the seat and both cars have leather steering wheels...

As long as the seats and driving position are comfortable and the interior is rattle-free, what does it really matter?
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      07-20-2019, 05:58 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I see a value in assembling my own engine. As a gear head, I think that is cool as hell!
I'd much rather pay to do the factory engine program for my Corvette than do Euro Delivery on a M4. Drive around Eurotrash for a week, then wait 2-months for delivery.
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      07-20-2019, 06:01 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
You seem like one of those that would never be satisfied, no matter what they did, even if it was better. You'd find some way to rationalize what you have as "better". The base trim is obviously not meant to go up against a much higher class vehicle, but the higher trim levels should hold their own just fine. You seem to think that the entire cockpit should be CNCed out of one piece of aluminum, inlaid with diamonds, plated with 24K gold and padded with goat leather or something. Either that or you are jelly?

Speaking about chassis disadvantages and exotic engineering, it'll be interesting to see how porsche answers this, if they can. As they push the rear-engine layout faster and faster, it takes more and more exotic engineering to make it compete with more optimal setups, like mid-engine for one. This is no doubt why the 911 RSR went mid-engine. The basic rule here is that you can make something inherently worse as fast or faster, it just takes more money and engineering to do so, which drives up the cost. Active suspension, rear steering wheels, and so on. IME, they should put a 911 style body on the cayman and call it good, but the new C8 should require them to take some more drastic steps, like hybrid drive in the 911 with electrically powered front wheels or something. If you are going to bring up a bunch of negative stuff about a mid-engine chassis, lets talk about a rear-engine chassis and the moment of inertia...
Stop putting such a negative spin on things...
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      07-20-2019, 06:07 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Considering I just started a new job, I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a new car just yet. Maybe by the time I am Chevy will offer the ability to assemble my own engine on the C8. 🔧

Side benefit is I'd be buying American instead of supporting Germany, a country that won't even stop doing business with Iran and Russia. 🇺🇸
And pay for the privilege? That's one thing I never understood...you pay to build your own motor.
I see a value in assembling my own engine. As a gear head, I think that is cool as hell!
Oh, I don't disagree. But IIRC isn't it something like $5k? Not worth it...not even remotely IMHO. Not when all you're doing is doing the labor yourself. If anything, it should cost LESS. Maybe a marginal charge, but not that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'd much rather pay to do the factory engine program for my Corvette than...Drive around Eurotrash for a week
Well, we know who you voted for.
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      07-20-2019, 06:30 AM   #185
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Visualizer is working again...

Not really considering an LT3 package, and I hate the centering stipe on the wheel, so it is looking like I'd pick the black interior. The high wing option is a bit much, plus you're going to have to lift things over whatever wing you have on to access the trunk. For me that means the "regular" Z51 package wing would be my setup.
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      07-20-2019, 06:33 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by NEfan508 View Post
Little Miller is turning 14, the m2 is going to be his... but let's not get into that again please

I'll take the new grand sport for sure, looks good, can't wait to hear about it in test reviews

Edit: I told my wife I'm going to Quirk Chevrolet to put a deposit down, she said what color would you get honey? WHITE of course, she texted me this pic soon after lol, as you wish she said get what you want Mr. midlife crises
I always say the car hobby is cheaper than a 20 year old girlfriend......maybe that's why my wife doesn't complain too much about it.
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      07-20-2019, 06:47 AM   #187
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Noticed that the engine builder program was only for Z06 and ZR1 models with the C7. I guess the base motor wasn't hand built? Wonder if the new LT2 will even be part of the program. Maybe it's not special enough.
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      07-20-2019, 06:55 AM   #188
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I guess it’s time for me to replace my C7. I will get another 2LT package, may spring for the M-Sport, I mean, Z51 package.
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      07-20-2019, 08:13 AM   #189
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Stretching pretty far to compare this to the Fiero in any way shape or fashion beside sit being made by GM and being a midengined 2 seater.

As for the wing, the base model is wingless.
Probably not the right thread here to discuss this, but since a few have decided to try to infer the C8 will be a POS in the light of the Fiero, I thought some truth would be nice. I'm quite familiar with the Fiero development because I was studying manufacturing engineering at the time of its development and I am a car geek on the side... and my brother owned from new, the first year 2M4, which I had a lot of time with behind the wheel.

First off, the Fiero was intended to be a low-priced commuter car, not a mid-engine sports car. To make it low-cost, GM part-binned a lot of the hard parts of the chassis to avoid expensive redevelopment of those sections. The front suspension was taken from the then nearly defunct Chevrolet Chevette. The rear drive was from the engine cradle up, the front drive Chevrolet Citation.

But the Fiero was quite innovative for the time and a significant achievement in the view of automotive history. GM developed an entirely new frame manufacturing technique called at the time a "Space Frame". The Fiero was completely drivable without the body panels attached. The Fiero pioneered use of plastic and plastic fiber reinforced panels (something called SMC - sheet-molded compound) for auto parts, which included new paint technology. GM's idea of the Fiero using the newly developed space-frame technology was the panels merely fastened to the frame, allowing inexpensive and rapid change over to body redesigns. Most of the industry now uses the plastic body panel technology originally conceived and developed for the Fiero.

But again keep in mind the time at which the Fiero was developed and the economic situation in the late 1970's. GM as usual was strapped for cash, coming out of significant engineering challenges during the early 1970's for fuel consumption and emission mandates by the US Government. This lead to reuse of the Citation and Chevette parts (GM engineers at the time wanted to develop new components instead). The Citation and Chevette parts were where the Fiero earned it POS status. Midway into the Fiero production, GM had addressed the front end by redesigning the Chevette-based suspension and the rear engine cradle from the Citation was redesigned.

The long-in-the-tooth GM Iron Duke used in the Citation was known to starve the crank bearings due to a low oil capacity of the engine for the Fiero configuration. The rods would let go, hole the block, and cause an engine fire by oil dumping on the exhaust manifold. GM corrected the sump capacity, which solved the problem (it didn't help that owners ignored checking the engine oil level). Buy the 1986 model year, the Fiero, especially in GT trim with the V6, was a pretty decent car. It's 5-year production run sold 370,000 cars; decent numbers for such a niche car.

GM's spaceframe production technology spawned the Saturn Car company and production of the Pontiac Transport and its Chevy and Oldsmobile cousins, and other offshoots of the 1st-gen U-body platform.

Considering the C8 uses just 1 carry-over part from the C7, it's difficult to compare the C8 to anything close of the significantly part-binned Fiero. Being the C8 is the start of a new platform for GM, much as the Fiero was in the late 1970's I'd argue that CAD and CAM technologies have so far advanced since the 1970's,the modern engineering practices of today create much better and successful chassis designs right out of the box. I think it is fair to say bth the C8 and Fiero are significant milestones for GM, but to infer the C8 will be a POS as the Fiero is perceived to be, is pretty disconnected IMO.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 07-20-2019 at 07:51 PM..
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      07-20-2019, 08:28 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Noticed that the engine builder program was only for Z06 and ZR1 models with the C7. I guess the base motor wasn't hand built? Wonder if the new LT2 will even be part of the program. Maybe it's not special enough.
I think the LT1 was built in Tonawanda engine plant in New York state IIRC. Assuming the LT2 will come from there too. Maybe you can get a production line job there...
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      07-20-2019, 09:54 AM   #191
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This really spoiled the Supra's plans. Totally shifted my focus for my next car purchase, how can any enthusiast say no to a DCT Mid Engine 500hp car for 60k?
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      07-20-2019, 09:56 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
You seem like one of those that would never be satisfied, no matter what they did, even if it was better. You'd find some way to rationalize what you have as "better". The base trim is obviously not meant to go up against a much higher class vehicle, but the higher trim levels should hold their own just fine. You seem to think that the entire cockpit should be CNCed out of one piece of aluminum, inlaid with diamonds, plated with 24K gold and padded with goat leather or something. Either that or you are jelly?

Speaking about chassis disadvantages and exotic engineering, it'll be interesting to see how porsche answers this, if they can. As they push the rear-engine layout faster and faster, it takes more and more exotic engineering to make it compete with more optimal setups, like mid-engine for one. This is no doubt why the 911 RSR went mid-engine. The basic rule here is that you can make something inherently worse as fast or faster, it just takes more money and engineering to do so, which drives up the cost. Active suspension, rear steering wheels, and so on. IME, they should put a 911 style body on the cayman and call it good, but the new C8 should require them to take some more drastic steps, like hybrid drive in the 911 with electrically powered front wheels or something. If you are going to bring up a bunch of negative stuff about a mid-engine chassis, lets talk about a rear-engine chassis and the moment of inertia...
You are inferring quite a bit about me based on my comments. "Jelly" about what? If I like the new C8, I will buy one. That simple. However, as it stands now, I don't know enough about how it will perform under real world conditions and remain skeptical and cautious.

Your analogy to Porsche is totally irrelevant. I never said anything negative about the mid-engine setup. Only about my skepticism over this new C8. And Porsche doesn't need to do anything "drastic" to the 911 platform to keep up with the C8. They've been achieving sub-3 second 0-60 times for nearly a decade now. Also, let's talk again about "inherently worse" engine layout when the future top-dog C8 blows the GT2 N'ring time away. Holding true to the rear-engine layout and evolving it over time is more confidence inspiring than switching to an all-new layout like going from front-engine to mid-engine with what appears like a minimal R&D budget for Chevy. The RSR only went mid-engine because of racing regulations and the insane rear diffuser aero requirements necessary to remain competitive in a few particular racing series.

I'm still not sure what your point was, other than trying to take a cheap shot at me for expressing my thoughts and opinions.
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      07-20-2019, 10:07 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post

Your analogy to Porsche is totally irrelevant. I never said anything negative about the mid-engine setup. Only about my skepticism over this new C8. And Porsche doesn't need to do anything "drastic" to the 911 platform to keep up with the C8. They've been achieving sub-3 second 0-60 times for nearly a decade now. Also, let's talk again about "inherently worse" engine layout when the future top-dog C8 blows the GT2 N'ring time away. Holding true to the rear-engine layout and evolving it over time is more confidence inspiring than switching to an all-new layout like going from front-engine to mid-engine with what appears like a minimal R&D budget for Chevy. The RSR only went mid-engine because of racing regulations and the insane rear diffuser aero requirements necessary to remain competitive in a few particular racing series.

I'm still not sure what your point was, other than trying to take a cheap shot at me for expressing my thoughts and opinions.
Oh come on, don't be ridiculous, you brought up the mid-engine chassis and how it must have all sorts of disadvantages and how GM can't possibly overcome these with design. I have a bridge to sell you on the topic of the RSR...Speaking of drastic, Porsche DID have to do something drastic, they had to come out with the new GT2 and GT3, in 2017, the Z06 was beating the GT3 around Nurburging. Easily beats the Turbo S. That's not even the highest level for GM, so you can bet cars like the ZL1 and Z06 have forced Porsche to respond with even faster models, but it comes at a cost, especially with an inherent disadvantage like a rear engine chassis. It's still possible to make it faster...it just takes a lot more money, it also makes it easier for your competitors to match the performance when they re-design
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      07-20-2019, 11:24 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Oh come on, don't be ridiculous, you brought up the mid-engine chassis and how it must have all sorts of disadvantages and how GM can't possibly overcome these with design. I have a bridge to sell you on the topic of the RSR...Speaking of drastic, Porsche DID have to do something drastic, they had to come out with the new GT2 and GT3, in 2017, the Z06 was beating the GT3 around Nurburging. Easily beats the Turbo S. That's not even the highest level for GM, so you can bet cars like the ZL1 and Z06 have forced Porsche to respond with even faster models, but it comes at a cost, especially with an inherent disadvantage like a rear engine chassis. It's still possible to make it faster...it just takes a lot more money, it also makes it easier for your competitors to match the performance when they re-design
Mid engine will always be advantageous to a rear engine. Porsche themselves know this and have been limiting the cayman because of it.
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      07-20-2019, 12:30 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Oh come on, don't be ridiculous, you brought up the mid-engine chassis and how it must have all sorts of disadvantages and how GM can't possibly overcome these with design. I have a bridge to sell you on the topic of the RSR...Speaking of drastic, Porsche DID have to do something drastic, they had to come out with the new GT2 and GT3, in 2017, the Z06 was beating the GT3 around Nurburging. Easily beats the Turbo S. That's not even the highest level for GM, so you can bet cars like the ZL1 and Z06 have forced Porsche to respond with even faster models, but it comes at a cost, especially with an inherent disadvantage like a rear engine chassis. It's still possible to make it faster...it just takes a lot more money, it also makes it easier for your competitors to match the performance when they re-design
I'm sorry you have such reading comprehension issues. You are putting words in my mouth and claiming I was generalizing on all mid-engine chassis with your "all sorts of disadvantages" accusation above. The only comments I made were in regards to this C8 and how I am skeptical about how Chevy will fare going from front-engined to mid-engined, and I even used Chevy's own claims and statements about the C8 to provide context around my concerns. Why are you so butthurt over this? I have no brand prejudice against Chevy. Just concerns and reservations about this new Corvette. Who knows, one day I might end up buying one (I cross-shopped the C7 Grand Sport against my M240i), but as of now, I stand by my comments and observations. Quit crying over what I think or the fact that Porsche currently makes the faster car. "Had" to come out with the new GT2 and GT3? More like WERE going to come out with it. Just as they will with the 992 generation.
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      07-20-2019, 01:15 PM   #196
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ze-comparison/

Quote:
We compare the C8 Corvette's dimensions to those of the existing mid-engined field to see how it stacks up.

The C8 is larger and heavier than nearly all of today's mid-engined cars, but its generous dimensions yield impressive passenger and cargo space.

A claimed ability to blast to 60 mph in under three seconds puts the C8 on par with many exotics that are vastly more expensive.
Part of the reason the C8 a few inches too long probably due to racing. They need a longer wheel base, longer body for aerodynamics to be competitive in Le Mans racing.
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      07-20-2019, 02:03 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
The new Vette looks badass! I've never been into them but I might have to grow out my mullet and go for it

If this is the direction that BMW is going my next car after this ///M4 could be a Chevy.

Here's what the radical G80 M3 will look like! BIMMERPOST renderings https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1635123
Good lord that thing is hideous. The grills are an absolute abomination, and the rear looks like a Lexus. The current M3/M4 and 8 series are the peak of BMW styling, this thing is a huge step back imho.
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      07-20-2019, 02:11 PM   #198
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