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      09-14-2007, 02:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zba857 View Post
No prob!:redface:

500bhp maybe. 500whp? Not on pump gas... and more like +20psi @6k

Depending on the stock system it would probably need 1500cc of meth injection to quell knock. Along with supporting mods: FMIC, intake, catless +3in TBE, colder plugs, clutch/flywheel, CF driveshaft, intercooler sprayer, custom tune, possibly bigger oil cooler and other ways to reduce heat, other monitoring devices w/ logging capability's, oh and not to mention a way of getting that power to the ground, etc..... Not for the faint of heart...

But like i said, its still all speculation at this point.. Obviously a lot of factors come into play. I don't have an N54 yet so i wouldn't know if there were some key bottlenecks... Ie: intake manifold, head design, head gasket, compression induced knock, and all those aluminum bolts. I am not too worried about the CR and wouldn't lower it for anything, but it will get more and more difficult to raise boost without some higher octane(meth, propane, race gas). There are supra guys that build 11-11.5:1 blocks in an effort to spool huge turbos and they get along just fine.
That's interesting, I was wondering about the high compression. I remember reading something about how the Direct injection allowed for higher compression without the problems typically associated with high comp. turbo motors.

I have alot of money set aside for this car, it will be my first project car. I was planning on using my 335i and now I have to wait again..........it's getting painful.
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      09-14-2007, 03:34 PM   #24
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About the high compression, assuming the block and internals are up to par with a substantial increase in cylinder pressures, a thicker headgasket to lower compression may be all that is needed to support higher manifold pressures without inducing knock.

Is there any data on the absolute strength of the N54 block/internals?
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      09-15-2007, 06:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335ito135i View Post
That's interesting, I was wondering about the high compression. I remember reading something about how the Direct injection allowed for higher compression without the problems typically associated with high comp. turbo motors.

I have alot of money set aside for this car, it will be my first project car. I was planning on using my 335i and now I have to wait again..........it's getting painful.
Im confused.. You are using your 335i as a project or you are waiting for the 135i? Is your goal 500whp? What is your plan for achieving this, if you don't mind me asking?

Imo the greatest advantage of DI is how fast it can get the fuel in the cylinder. The more time the fuel spends in the cylinder, the greater possibility for pre-ignition and detonation. The next greatest advantage is the fuel is injected in vapor form(a great side effect of how fast its injected) and atomizes very quickly with the intake charge.

Does anyone know if BMW uses individual cylinder knock control?


All this talk about motors and turbos has me excited for this
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/03/...-cycle-engine/

I can't wait to see what this technology is capable of.
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      09-17-2007, 05:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zba857 View Post
Im confused.. You are using your 335i as a project or you are waiting for the 135i? Is your goal 500whp? What is your plan for achieving this, if you don't mind me asking?

Imo the greatest advantage of DI is how fast it can get the fuel in the cylinder. The more time the fuel spends in the cylinder, the greater possibility for pre-ignition and detonation. The next greatest advantage is the fuel is injected in vapor form(a great side effect of how fast its injected) and atomizes very quickly with the intake charge.

Does anyone know if BMW uses individual cylinder knock control?


All this talk about motors and turbos has me excited for this
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/03/...-cycle-engine/

I can't wait to see what this technology is capable of.
335i is current car, selling it to an employee and going all out on the 135i.

My straight line accerleration goal is 11.9 ET at 4200 feet elevation.

I wonder it the Direct injectors/fuel pump used on the new V8 TT to be used in the next six series will work with the n54 so that larger turbo's can be added. Shiv vishnu says with procede v2.0 the injectors are already at 80-85% of their limit so new ones will be a must with bigger turbos.

A six series with TT V8 sure sounds sexy.
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      09-17-2007, 05:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335ito135i View Post
335i is current car, selling it to an employee and going all out on the 135i.

My straight line accerleration goal is 11.9 ET at 4200 feet elevation.

I wonder it the Direct injectors/fuel pump used on the new V8 TT to be used in the next six series will work with the n54 so that larger turbo's can be added. Shiv vishnu says with procede v2.0 the injectors are already at 80-85% of their limit so new ones will be a must with bigger turbos.

A six series with TT V8 sure sounds sexy.
Do you think 500whp is really necessary to obtain high 11's to low 12's? Get a set of DRs, PROcede V2, TBE, FMIC, new intake, shave off a couple hundred pounds, a custom tune, and a good launch should get us there at a fast track, if not definitely close!
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      09-17-2007, 05:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Italteen3 View Post
Do you think 500whp is really necessary to obtain high 11's to low 12's? Get a set of DRs, PROcede V2, TBE, FMIC, new intake, shave off a couple hundred pounds, a custom tune, and a good launch should get us there at a fast track, if not definitely close!
With all those mods and 93 octane (ecu automatically adapts up to 93) You'll only be at about 375-380whp on a dynojet. AT's lose 15% through drivetrain, MT's lose 13%. So on a AT 375whp=430 crank hp. If the oner with weight mods was 3200lbs=7.4 lbs per/hp. A zo6 at my elevation has 437hp weighs 3150=7.2lbs per/hp. (assuming 13.5% or 3% per 1000ft. elevation power loss).

Yes with all that plus 93 octane (good for 10whp with procede) at a fast track, 11.9 is possible with a 1.7 60 ft. But not on my slow ass, slippery 4200ft. elevation track. Not gonna happen. Zo6's run 12.6 here. My friend's 400awhp Evo MR runs 12.2. I think I'll need 500rwhp to do it. But I wanna do it while adding only moderate turbo lag, which seems possible based on the info I've gathered so far.

FWIW, I've beat my buddies m6 vert from 0-120 and my other buddies 300c srt8 from 0-120 many, many times, by a couple carlengths with e90 AT procede v1.4 otherwise stock except wheels/tires. Elevation kills these NA motors up here.
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      09-17-2007, 06:56 PM   #29
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Has anyone tried contacting Siemens directly for advise? or a dealer perhaps?
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      09-17-2007, 11:56 PM   #30
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335iti135i,

4200 feet? You ought to try driving at 7000 ft. altitude in a N/A car. :smile:
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      09-18-2007, 12:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo View Post
335iti135i,

4200 feet? You ought to try driving at 7000 ft. altitude in a N/A car. :smile:

I know, my best friend grew up in santa fe, he's 30, your age? He says there were alot of saab turbo in the area when he was growing up?
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      09-18-2007, 02:17 AM   #32
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I love Santa Fe! I want to go to St. Johns.:smile:
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      09-18-2007, 10:14 AM   #33
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335ito135i
I'm 65. There are tons of Japanese boost-buggys running around now.

zba857,
Yes, it's great place to live. Best summer weather of any place I've ever lived.
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      09-18-2007, 02:24 PM   #34
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for that crower engine, where would u get all that water?
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      09-18-2007, 03:02 PM   #35
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Separate reservoir. I would imagine that you would need to fill it when you gas up. Distilled water is necessary. You would be saving so much gas that a large tank isn't necessary for long trips
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      09-18-2007, 05:21 PM   #36
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hmmm pretty interesting, would be a hassle filling up 2 tanks at once tho.
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      09-18-2007, 05:28 PM   #37
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shit i wouldn't mind filling up 10 tanks if i was getting 40% better fuel efficiency
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      09-23-2007, 01:01 AM   #38
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just a few ideas!
10-12 lbs single mass light weight flywheel
with bigger turbos
what are safest and best to upgrade at this point turbo wise?

why not bore and/or stroke to get the higher rev band and a more helpful boost range say 7700 to 8200 rpm safely tested and pressure tested?
how can you keep air temps cooler for more punch in a hotter place?

altogether a light weight flywheel combined with bigger turbos and a bored/stroked out engine wouldn't you get similar performance to stock feel ? why not?
Just exploring my possibilities
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      09-23-2007, 06:38 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emos325 View Post
just a few ideas!
with bigger turbos what are safest and best to upgrade at this point turbo wise?
Safest is a hollow word w/ FI. If you use non-stock turbos you are going to need a way to monitor various systems. Since the computer isn't idiot proof it is hard to say how it is going to react to a different flow map. You can't just slap them on and be done with it.

I don't have whats necessary to see what compressor/turbine will fit in the stock CHRA and housings. If you got aftermarket manifolds and supporting mods,etc... a couple of GT25's would net you a significant increase in hp/tq
Quote:
why not bore and/or stroke to get the higher rev band
Increasing bore/stroke will lower your safe redline because that will increase piston velocities and mass. This will also perpetuate a sharper power drop on stock turbos, effectively shortening your power band. It would increase peak hp and tq, however it isn't exactly the best bang for the buck. It is pretty pricy when done properly and you wouldn't reap its benefits till you get some mammoth turbos.:smile:
Quote:
more helpful boost range say 7700 to 8200 rpm safely tested and pressure tested?
This wouldn't help with stock turbos because they are falling flat at 6krpm already. Extending your rev range will only increase the fall off. You can do it. You would just need Shiv, etc. to give you a 'chip'. Once again you wouldn't see a gain w/ it unless you had some moderately sized turbos.

Quote:
how can you keep air temps cooler for more punch in a hotter place?
You can spray the intercooler(safest way IMO) or you can inject h2o into the intake(distilled water only) or there is always direct port no2 injection(that will give you more punch in any weather!)

There is also various other ways of reducing air temps, ie: bigger intercooler, air-water intercooler, larger turbos, ceramic coating, thermal wrap, CAI, CF, ice in air-water reservoir, refrigerator for air-water, etc.

Keep in mind that you won't see huge gains from lowering the temp unless it is accounted for in the tune.
Quote:
altogether a light weight flywheel combined with bigger turbos and a bored/stroked out engine wouldn't you get similar performance to stock feel ? why not?
I am going to hold off on the LW flywheel for a while until i can see how it reacts to the setup. On some platforms the LWFW can increase the chance of stalling and warpage. It can also make heel/toe shifting more difficult(or easier, its platform specific)

IMO you don't modify your car with the intent of keeping the stock feel. Once you mod it alters the stock feel. This can be good or bad depending solely on your opinion.

regards
Zak
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      09-23-2007, 08:08 AM   #40
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thanks for all the info zak. i figured a lwfw with bigger turbos and bored with a longer rev band would allow a stockish feel while reaping extra gains and with PROcede and a custom tune i thought it would be a large gain. (with all other parts needed FMIC CAIetc.)
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      10-09-2007, 03:08 AM   #41
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for shits


N54 stock 10t's


my stock 9b's
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      10-09-2007, 05:06 AM   #42
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Wow.

:roundel:
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