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      10-08-2007, 09:31 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
You know Garrett, I was going to give your crap a pass - then, hell I got pissed enough that I told the moderators to throw either you or me out - since they've decided to stay out of it, I gotta take care of your pathetic drivel myself.

You and I are going to have a confrontation. I am calling you out - I challenge you to list your automotive credentials and supply references that can vouch for those credentials - I ain't taking the word of your homies either - your references must be from adults, verifiable (oh wait I got it, your industry experience is as a towel boy at the local car wash ; -). I'll be more than happy to supply at least 10 references for mine (adults also by the way).

I'll give you a bit of my credentials now so that you know what you're up against. I am a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (heck I even have a wonderful certificate for that one). I have had the good luck to cover a number of long-lead and short lead press events in the past 10 years for manufacturers as diverse as Toyota, Ford, Chrsyler, GM, MB, Subaru, Porsche, and BMW.

I've had driving sesions at the BMW PDC, at a rally school in Florida, at Spring Mountain Raceway, Road Atlanta, PPIR and Mont Tremblant. You don't even want to know the number of different cars I've driven in the past ten years (or the fact that I've driven Cobras at Romeo, a C6 Z51 at Milford and a really fun drive in a Dodge Charger police car at Chelsea). I've covered (as a journalist) the Indy 500, the Pike's Peak Hill Climb, and have attended more races then you are years old.

I have standing press credentials at SEMA and have covered the Pebble Beach Concours twice since 1999. I am currently working on a history of Front Wheel Drive (ever hear of Riley Brett, Harry Miller, Ben Gregory, Gregoire - nope didn't think you would have).

You can't afford to buy my automotive library - and since you're such an expert on 'sports cars' I would expect you to have a copy of 'Time and Two Seats' in your library (oh, sorry you've never heard of it have you). How about Pomeroy's 'Grand Prix' cars (oh, before your time - sorry). Any of Chris Nixon's books? (Nope, he's dead.) How about LJK Setright (nope, he's too hung up on Bristols - oh but they're basically BMWs so maybe you got something on that).

I look forward to you providing me with the details of your vast treasure store of automotive expertise. (It has to be better than your English grammer. Oh and the sarcasm is part of the package - since you're so hung up on it. ; -)

Oh and to make it worthwhile, why don't we put some money on it? Awaiting your reply.

Calling him out on his sources, automotive knowledge, experience with cars, or anything else having to do with what he has stated about the 135i is perfectly fine. Stating your own personal experiences and knowledge you have acquired in your years on this planet is also fine.

Saying he can not afford your automotive library is just tasteless, sarcasm or not. Went to far on that one hugo.

atr_hugo, kurichan, and Garrett if you guys would like to continue this arguement do so through PM I want to get back on topic here!




As stated earlier I do not see any reason as to why the 135i will not be any slower to 60. Only time will tell, though speculating is fun .
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      10-08-2007, 09:35 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
You know Garrett, I was going to give your crap a pass - then, hell I got pissed enough that I told the moderators to throw either you or me out - since they've decided to stay out of it, I gotta take care of your pathetic drivel myself.

You and I are going to have a confrontation. I am calling you out - I challenge you to list your automotive credentials and supply references that can vouch for those credentials - I ain't taking the word of your homies either - your references must be from adults, verifiable (oh wait I got it, your industry experience is as a towel boy at the local car wash ; -). I'll be more than happy to supply at least 10 references for mine (adults also by the way).

I'll give you a bit of my credentials now so that you know what you're up against. I am a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (heck I even have a wonderful certificate for that one). I have had the good luck to cover a number of long-lead and short lead press events in the past 10 years for manufacturers as diverse as Toyota, Ford, Chrsyler, GM, MB, Subaru, Porsche, and BMW.

I've had driving sesions at the BMW PDC, at a rally school in Florida, at Spring Mountain Raceway, Road Atlanta, PPIR and Mont Tremblant. You don't even want to know the number of different cars I've driven in the past ten years (or the fact that I've driven Cobras at Romeo, a C6 Z51 at Milford and a really fun drive in a Dodge Charger police car at Chelsea). I've covered (as a journalist) the Indy 500, the Pike's Peak Hill Climb, and have attended more races then you are years old.

I have standing press credentials at SEMA and have covered the Pebble Beach Concours twice since 1999. I am currently working on a history of Front Wheel Drive (ever hear of Riley Brett, Harry Miller, Ben Gregory, Gregoire - nope didn't think you would have).

You can't afford to buy my automotive library - and since you're such an expert on 'sports cars' I would expect you to have a copy of 'Time and Two Seats' in your library (oh, sorry you've never heard of it have you). How about Pomeroy's 'Grand Prix' cars (oh, before your time - sorry). Any of Chris Nixon's books? (Nope, he's dead.) How about LJK Setright (nope, he's too hung up on Bristols - oh but they're basically BMWs so maybe you got something on that).

I look forward to you providing me with the details of your vast treasure store of automotive expertise. (It has to be better than your English grammer. Oh and the sarcasm is part of the package - since you're so hung up on it. ; -)

Oh and to make it worthwhile, why don't we put some money on it? Awaiting your reply.


WoW, thats a big e-penis you have there. Unfortunatly, I don't think flexing muscle on a forum is my style. You call it drivil, yet you felt compeled to respond?

Your response was a defense mechanism to shine the light on me and not on the subject matter at hand. Your attemp to character assasinate me has fouled. We are talking about the heritage of certain automobiles and the companies that make them. Remember?

Remember your inability to understand this and now your second attempt to make this personal, all the while your still trying to fathom DNA.

Hrre I will stroke your ego, yes as a journalist you've probably visited more venues than I have, or even races more cars. It's just a shame that you never understood the distinct engineering involved in many of those vehichles.

So do you still feel that Porsche and other manufacturers don't have DNA..?

How big is your e-penis again..?








-Garrett
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      10-08-2007, 09:36 PM   #69
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I'll bet anything that when that turbo kicks in, you won't care how fast you're getting to 60...
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      10-08-2007, 09:46 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
WoW, thats a big e-penis you have there. Unfortunatly, I don't think flexing muscle on a forum is my style. You call it drivil, yet you felt compeled to respond?

Your response was a defense mechanism to shine the light on me and not on the subject matter at hand. Your attemp to character assasinate me has fouled. We are talking about the heritage of certain automobiles and the companies that make them. Remember?

Remember your inability to understand this and now your second attempt to make this personal, all the while your still trying to fathom DNA.

Hrre I will stroke your ego, yes as a journalist you've probably visited more venues than I have, or even races more cars. It's just a shame that you never understood the distinct engineering involved in many of those vehichles.

So do you still feel that Porsche and other manufacturers don't have DNA..?

How big is your e-penis again..?


-Garrett
You didn't answer my question, what are your automotive credentials - answer up - you who must resort to 'penis' arguments. Sheesh, that's the best you got? As Bugs Bunny is want to say, "What a maroon".

Oh and by the way - you assasinate your character everytime you post. ; -)
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      10-08-2007, 10:19 PM   #71
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Garrett and atr_hugo: please take this to private messages. Any further posts by you guys regarding the same topic will be removed. Thanks.
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      10-08-2007, 11:07 PM   #72
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aww, i was just getting my popcorn out. .. to not make this post completely useless. I think someone made a thread stating that the 1er is going to be 200 lbs lighter than a 3er, and the 3er runs a claimed 4.8 by many mags. The 1er's 0-60 is probably gonna be around the 4.6 area.
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      10-09-2007, 01:53 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichiban View Post
aww, i was just getting my popcorn out.
Hehe, i was just about to ask where the popcorn smiley went?!

Quote:
I think someone made a thread stating that the 1er is going to be 200 lbs lighter than a 3er
Quote:
and the 3er runs a claimed 4.8 by many mags.
Quote:
The 1er's 0-60 is probably gonna be around the 4.6 area.
:hitcomput
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      10-09-2007, 07:07 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
You didn't answer my question, what are your automotive credentials - answer up - you who must resort to 'penis' arguments. Sheesh, that's the best you got? As Bugs Bunny is want to say, "What a maroon".

Oh and by the way - you assasinate your character everytime you post. ; -)


lol...

How many people have to vouch for their credentials to post on this forum and debate..? Why are you asking for mine? Why do my credentials matter to you..?

Your quips have nothing to do with the subject matter, they are centered around me. I'm glad my post spark your interest and i'm facinated that I matter so much to you, Unfortunatly, your post hold nothing of value to me and their venomious nature leaves alot to desire.




Anyways...


I think the 135i will probably run 4.8s in stock form with a few good launches. I think once people get some break-in on the n54 and it loosens up a tad, you'll see people using aftermarket mods such as PROcede and you then start to see 0~60 times of 4.3'ish with a conservative tune.
:iono:

Its hard to tell what effect the single exhaust will have on the performance of this 1'er and it still needs fatter shoes to get the best 0~60 times. Though (again) I cannot see the 135i being any slower than the 335i.





-Garrett
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      10-09-2007, 01:56 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrett
Hugo, if you cannot wrap your head around the term, it's simply because you not ment to. It goes along with your inability to respond in a just manner and bad use of sarcasm, your simply a dolt. Antagonizing me will only lead to some type of confrontation, which I kindly decline. Although, that alone won't resolve the fact you just don't understand! or.. have a keen eye for that level of engineering.
Garrett you are the one that attacked his intelligence,etc.. Why are you so surprised that he is asking how much you got?

The fact of the matter is... When you talk all big like you know it all... People are going to wonder how you came to the point of infinite knowledge.

Of course his 'quips' have nothing to do with the subject matter... The second part of your post is the first ON topic thing you have written! You instigated this whole ordeal!

Please this isn't an attack or a fanboi atr_hugo post.. Im just trying to help you realize that your shit stinks too so we don't have to run into this again.

No harm no foul..



I think 4.8's are definitely possible. Especially since they lowered the official time of 5.3(same as e92) which we knew was bogus. But really it's not going to be much faster(could be slower) than the 335i. If you follow the 1/4 mile weight estimate. -100lbs=-0.1sec Then the 80lbs "is" going to make a .08 sec difference throughout the whole 1/4 mile. The -80lbs will hurt the 0-60 and the smaller tire contact patch isn't going to help either. I doubt the exhaust is going to effect power output.

/benchracing

Zak

Ps. Thats the last time you will see me bench race
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      10-09-2007, 05:58 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zba857 View Post
Garrett you are the one that attacked his intelligence,etc.. Why are you so surprised that he is asking how much you got?

The fact of the matter is... When you talk all big like you know it all... People are going to wonder how you came to the point of infinite knowledge.

Of course his 'quips' have nothing to do with the subject matter... The second part of your post is the first ON topic thing you have written! You instigated this whole ordeal!

Please this isn't an attack or a fanboi atr_hugo post.. Im just trying to help you realize that your shit stinks too so we don't have to run into this again.

No harm no foul..



I think 4.8's are definitely possible. Especially since they lowered the official time of 5.3(same as e92) which we knew was bogus. But really it's not going to be much faster(could be slower) than the 335i. If you follow the 1/4 mile weight estimate. -100lbs=-0.1sec Then the 80lbs "is" going to make a .08 sec difference throughout the whole 1/4 mile. The -80lbs will hurt the 0-60 and the smaller tire contact patch isn't going to help either. I doubt the exhaust is going to effect power output.

/benchracing

Zak

Ps. Thats the last time you will see me bench race


A civil retort on his part would've indicated intelligence... no?


The one problem I do have with the 135i is that it's not a true dual exhaust like the 335i. We know some over at E90Post.com are getting 4.3s (0~60mph) with PROcede, I'm just wondering if there is a point in which the 1'er will will struggle due to this limitation.

Not that I'm after total acceleration but I do like effeciency.

So, for those who are looking to maximize their output might want to ponder that shortcomming aswell.

I will be happy if in stock from the 135i pulls a 4.8s





-Garrett
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      10-09-2007, 06:28 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
A civil retort on his part would've indicated intelligence... no?
So what can you conclude about yourself here?
Quote:
The one problem I do have with the 135i is that it's not a true dual exhaust like the 335i.
DE is overrated and off topic
Quote:
We know some over at E90Post.com are getting 4.3s
via accelerometers
Quote:
Not that I'm after total acceleration but I do like effeciency.
Efficiency would require the least ammount of parts possible. Resistance being equal; 1 pipe is more efficient.
Quote:
I will be happy if in stock from the 135i pulls a 4.8s
Now there is something we can agree on.:w00t:
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      10-09-2007, 07:11 PM   #78
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Zak - unlike some folks, who shall remain nameless, I am going to abide by the moderator's instructions. After all it is the civil thing to do. ; -)

"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." John Locke
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      10-09-2007, 07:35 PM   #79
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The N54 uses a typical inline 6 firing order. In cylinder order, they fire in this sequence, cyl 1, 5, 3, 6, 2 ,4. That means that a true dual exhaust split between cylinder groups 1-3 and 4-6 will provide the best possible scavenging (I believe that's true for turbos as well).

The 120 degree separation of firing pulses in the two banks is the reason for that effect (120 degrees of crank rotation -think of it as a unit of time). The exhaust pulse is creating a vacuum behind it which helps scavenge.

Someone with better knowledge of 'exhaust velocity in a 6 cylinder inline engine' should chime in here.

That said, I do believe that the further back you can keep this exhaust a true dual the better it will be (and Garrett you were onto this one - and see I do have some engineering knowledge ; -).
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      10-09-2007, 08:03 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
The N54 uses a typical inline 6 firing order. In cylinder order, they fire in this sequence, cyl 1, 5, 3, 6, 2 ,4. That means that a true dual exhaust split between cylinder groups 1-3 and 4-6 will provide the best possible scavenging (I beleive that's true for turbos as well).

The 120 degree separation of firing pulses in the two banks is the reason for that effect (120 degrees of crank rotation -think of it as a unit of time). The exhaust pulse is creating a vacuum behind it which helps scavenge.

I do believe that the further back you can keep this exhaust a true dual the better it will be (and Garrett you were right on this one - and see I do have some engineering knowledge ; -)

Aye, but I'm wondering at what point the characteristic of the 135i exhaust cease to be efficient and become a bottleneck.

I think we will find out once people start using aftermarket tune (PROcede, Xede, SSTT, etc). But, then-again there will be aftermarket exhaust for the 135i...






-Garrett
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      10-09-2007, 08:20 PM   #81
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Interesting... I thought that a lot of the high speed gas scavenging benefits were nullified after the turbine.. I know that the optimal situation post turbo is just a dump. Can you extrapolate?
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      10-09-2007, 09:37 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Aye, but I'm wondering at what point the characteristic of the 135i exhaust cease to be efficient and become a bottleneck.

I think we will find out once people start using aftermarket tune (PROcede, Xede, SSTT, etc). But, then-again there will be aftermarket exhaust for the 135i...




-Garrett
An aftermarket exhaust is much easier to predict then a 0-60 time :tongue:. There will DEFINITELY be multiple manufacturers out there making it. Already spoken with one company who is looking into making DPs for the car. Again only time will tell (5 months WOOO!)
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      10-09-2007, 09:39 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Oh and by the way - you assasinate your character everytime you post. ; -)
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      10-09-2007, 09:46 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
The one problem I do have with the 135i is that it's not a true dual exhaust like the 335i.
That goes into the "so what" column.

Quote:
I'm just wondering if there is a point in which the 1'er will will struggle due to this limitation.
No.

It should not be a limitation because the turbos are small size, low pressure units.

I'd bet that if you raise boost on this car to a point where exhaust flow becomes an issue, you're going to have serious engine durability problems, especially considering all the e9x's that are overheating.

This engine, in factory tune, already appears to be overtaxed in terms of heat. I'd be pretty careful about pushing it too much further unless you're willing to roll the dice on the cost of an engine replacement.

By the way, at what point are the post turbo exhaust manifolds merged on this car? Does anyone know? Do we know the pipe diameter? I suspect that a freer flowing muffler and freer flowing cats are the only reasonable exhaust mods that would make sense on this car if flow ever really becomes a problem.
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      10-10-2007, 07:01 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zba857 View Post
Interesting... I thought that a lot of the high speed gas scavenging benefits were nullified after the turbine.. I know that the optimal situation post turbo is just a dump. Can you extrapolate?
That's something I need to do some digging on - somewhere around the den is a decent book on turbocharging (nice Gale Banks big block on the cover ; -). Maybe it'll have a more definitive answer than I can give. And somebody around here probably has some extensive exhaust engineering in their past.

My experience with turbos has been singles on four cylinders so that's why I hedged a bit on my previous post. Somone on this board has had to have some experience with exhaust setup on the 335i - it's be interesting to have them chime in.
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      10-10-2007, 08:40 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurichan View Post
That goes into the "so what" column.


No.

It should not be a limitation because the turbos are small size, low pressure units.

I'd bet that if you raise boost on this car to a point where exhaust flow becomes an issue, you're going to have serious engine durability problems, especially considering all the e9x's that are overheating.

This engine, in factory tune, already appears to be overtaxed in terms of heat. I'd be pretty careful about pushing it too much further unless you're willing to roll the dice on the cost of an engine replacement.

By the way, at what point are the post turbo exhaust manifolds merged on this car? Does anyone know? Do we know the pipe diameter? I suspect that a freer flowing muffler and freer flowing cats are the only reasonable exhaust mods that would make sense on this car if flow ever really becomes a problem.

Sorry, but the 335i folk have already reached that limit, I am just wondering how much sooner the 135i will encounter it inefficiencies due to the 135i reduced exhaust sytem.
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      10-10-2007, 08:42 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
That's something I need to do some digging on - somewhere around the den is a decent book on turbocharging (nice Gale Banks big block on the cover ; -). Maybe it'll have a more definitive answer than I can give. And somebody around here probably has some extensive exhaust engineering in their past.

My experience with turbos has been singles on four cylinders so that's why I hedged a bit on my previous post. Somone on this board has had to have some experience with exhaust setup on the 335i - it's be interesting to have them chime in.

You guys talking about the X-pipe design and wether or not that type of Fluid Dynamics works on turbocharged exhausts..?

Answer is: No.





-Garrett
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      10-10-2007, 12:21 PM   #88
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Thanks Hugo.. I appreciate it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
You guys talking about the X-pipe design and wether or not that type of Fluid Dynamics works on turbocharged exhausts..?
Not quite..
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