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      01-19-2010, 04:11 PM   #89
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Joy Is Indulgence.

Last edited by SCOTT26; 01-19-2010 at 05:51 PM.. Reason: Asked to remove image
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      01-19-2010, 04:18 PM   #90
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nice tease, Scott!

Looks like the mouth is wide-open to get all the air it can get.. no fogs, just lots of air ducts..
Please say those are 313 wheels on it.

Last edited by amdmaxx; 01-19-2010 at 04:45 PM..
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      01-19-2010, 04:20 PM   #91
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That would be 1st for an M car..

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Originally Posted by matt View Post
i think this means no quads....
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      01-19-2010, 04:23 PM   #92
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For $50k+ BMW can & should make them forged and light!
I am praying for M1 to not have run-flats.

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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
You can't compare aftermarket wheels to BMW factory wheels. The factory's engineering limits simply won't allow them to shave that much weight. The factory M3 wheels are about 50lbs with tires. There's no reason to think BMW will stray from the norm with this car when it comes to wheel manufacture.
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      01-19-2010, 04:24 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
I don't know about that.
The standard 135i doesn't handle as well as the 335i Coupe.
The 135i understeers more, has a higher center of gravity and doesn't have quite as good weight distribution, plus has skinner tires and shorter wheelbase.
It all adds up to decreased handling.
The 135i FEELS more tossable, but a lot of that is due to it's lighter weight and shorter wheelbase (which again isn't great for actual handling either, but sure does make a car feel light on it's feet and tossable.)

I'd say they'll make it similiar to the M3, but if anything a bit less balanced and buttoned down. The M1 would NEED the carbon fiber roof to help lower it's center of gravity to have a chance, and even then, it may not be enough with how tall the 1 series coupe is.

Either way, I don't think BMW wants to pull off a Porsche by making their bread winner 3 series (and the iconic M3) be upstaged by it's little/cheaper brother.
Do you have any actual track time to show those characteristics to have a significant impact on performance? Lap time from a variety of tracks with a balanced straight and corners will give good indication whether or not these characteristics make a difference.

I have heard these sentiments from journalists, who have unique driving style and come from different background. Not sure is whether the short wheel base and slightly higher center of gravity do actually impact track time by a significant amount compared to the 335i. Based from we have seen there's not a huge performance difference between the 135i and 335i. 135i may lean and understeer more, in the end the result is similar. We all have seen tout, rigid, small cars make good times with some man handling.

Carbon fiber roof helps, in reality I think its more of a gimmick than a main component to M3's handling capabilities. There are better bang for buck in terms of improving 135i's performance than CF roof, first being removing the standard moon roof.
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      01-19-2010, 04:25 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
For $50k+ BMW can & should make them forged and light!
I am praying for M1 to not have run-flats.

It would be nice, but I don't think it's going to happen. I would expect the setup to be very similar to what's on the M3 right now. That does mean no run flats though.
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      01-19-2010, 04:26 PM   #95
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You have your central duct which will allow air a , priority for the High Performance Intercooler. Brake air ducts will provide cooling for the six piston (cermamic?) brake discs , on the bonnet there is an additional two ducts one for cosmetic symmetery the other for air. Two air intakes on the front wings bring the typical M look with the bar that incorporates the side indicator light now placed on top instead of striking through.
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      01-19-2010, 04:32 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You have your central duct which will allow air a , priority for the High Performance Intercooler. Brake air ducts will provide cooling for the six piston (cermamic?) brake discs , on the bonnet there is an additional two ducts one for cosmetic symmetery the other for air. Two air intakes on the front wings bring the typical M look with the bar that incorporates the side indicator light now placed on top instead of striking through.

The ducts in the hood for air intake sound interesting, and that likely means a hood that can be retrofitted to the 135i.
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      01-19-2010, 04:51 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Joy Is Indulgence.
The headlights look different
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      01-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #98
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I wish we could see the outer edges. Perhaps they were blurred on purpose.
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      01-19-2010, 05:21 PM   #99
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This is very interesting! The headlight shape is definitely different.
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      01-19-2010, 05:29 PM   #100
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The current.
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      01-19-2010, 05:33 PM   #101
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Time will tell.
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      01-19-2010, 05:33 PM   #102
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Very cool, and it actually kinda sounded like a snow mobile.lol sure was moving like one in that stuff.
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      01-19-2010, 05:48 PM   #103
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It's an E82. No change to the current car , the front wings are a few mm wider.

Deliberate or intentional?
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      01-19-2010, 06:17 PM   #104
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Scott appreciate the info as always. It's kind of sad that I'm thinking that 3306lbs and 340HP (345PS) just in not enticing enough for me. I understand that there are much more to the package, but why can't the M1 be faster than the M3, like the M3 is faster than the M5?

This is a blatant compromise, unless the N55 is just not as flexible as the N54 (which is highly doubtful). What else was compromised, if so?
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      01-19-2010, 06:22 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Sco but why can't the M1 be faster than the M3, like the M3 is faster than the M5?

This is a blatant compromise, unless the N55 is just not as flexible as the N54 (which is highly doubtful). What else was compromised, if so?

I don't understand that either. The smallest, lightest car in the group should be the fastest.

I like the M3, but it's just gotten to big and heavy with this last generation. The M1 is the perfect opportunity to make that right again, and they seem to be holding back, either to protect the M3, or because the car is being rushed and there isn't time (or money possibly) to develop an engine that makes more sense, and put this car at the top of the lineup where it belongs.
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      01-19-2010, 06:26 PM   #106
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M1 headlight shape looks the same as E82.
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      01-19-2010, 06:28 PM   #107
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Does anyone know if BMW will actually have a factory or company sponsored M1 for motorsports? They have the M3 (FIA GT2, FIA GT4, ALMS, FIA LM), 3-series (FIA WTCC), M6 (Grand-Am), and Z4 (FIA GT3, ADAC 24hr races) models used for various levels of motorsports. The M1 seems sporty enough for a level of competition.
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      01-19-2010, 06:45 PM   #108
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The Purpose behind the M1 is to not concentrate on power solely but produce a car which is more entertaining and more thrilling to drive than cars that will probably cost twice as much or three times and so on.

M1 is purely about driver focus and torque. Two elements that are going to make this a very exciting car. It's a car that is going to be full of characteristics, It is also going to be a car that will be realistically affordable.
Such a concept will be successful in the largest M market , North America.

It also within BMW's drive to produce exciting cars on compact platforms.
The recession told us that consumers were willing to downsize for the right product and we seen that in the 1er. Although there is the trend for "downsizing" in the US it is down to Gas prices which are driving US consumers to smaller compact models. However the added concern amongst everybody is if Gas prices fall to normal levels then American consumers will go back to larger cars. With the M3 overlooking the M1's shoulder it will be positioned not to outclass that car in terms of power.
Which is why it will be in the mid three hundreds.

If there is a car that will define M "The Next chapter" for a new generation it will have to be the M1 , it is really going to bring a lot of new customers to the BMW brand. It will be the equivalent of a must have laptop , tv , ipod etc
An Indulgement you just have to get.
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      01-19-2010, 06:50 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Do you have any actual track time to show those characteristics to have a significant impact on performance? Lap time from a variety of tracks with a balanced straight and corners will give good indication whether or not these characteristics make a difference.

I have heard these sentiments from journalists, who have unique driving style and come from different background. Not sure is whether the short wheel base and slightly higher center of gravity do actually impact track time by a significant amount compared to the 335i. Based from we have seen there's not a huge performance difference between the 135i and 335i. 135i may lean and understeer more, in the end the result is similar. We all have seen tout, rigid, small cars make good times with some man handling.

Carbon fiber roof helps, in reality I think its more of a gimmick than a main component to M3's handling capabilities. There are better bang for buck in terms of improving 135i's performance than CF roof, first being removing the standard moon roof.

No I have never taken my 2 335i's or a 135i to a track.
However, physics and automotive design dictate those points as factual.
Further, as you stated, many automotive journalists have tested both the 135i and 335i coupe on several tracks, and as you stated, they are pretty even (the 335i wins some, the 135i wins others) but what is not even is their comments regarding balance and driveability. The 135i almost always gets comments about understeer and not as planted as the 335i.

The reason for a lot of that is the points I made.
The reason for the fact the 135i in many ways can equal the 335i coupe's lap times is the fact it's 150 or so pounds lighter, that cancels out much of it's short comings of center of gravity, weight distribution, shorter wheelbase, and skinnier tires.

Consider this: How much quicker around a track do you think a 335i coupe would be if they removed 150 lbs of weight from it?
Or vice versa, how much slower do you suppose it would be if they raised it's weight up, gave it skinnier tires, and shifted it's front wheels back and inch or two?
Again the simple reason the 135i can pretty much match the 335i coupe in track times with it's short comings of the above points is because it also has 150 lbs less weight to carry around offsetting most of those points.

I agree, bang for the buck the CF roof is not the biggest deal and the cost would probably be $1k plus for that. The sunroof adds ~44 lbs to the roof of the M3, the CF roof drops another ~22 lbs over the non CF roof.
So, the difference in weight of a M3 with the CF roof and one with a sunroof is ~66 lbs. All of which on the worst possible place for handling, braking, and acceleration.
So if you are a track junkie, saving 22 lbs with a CF roof may well be worth it, and clearly if performance is top priority, the option to NOT have a sunroof is even more important.
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      01-19-2010, 06:50 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Purpose behind the M1 is to not concentrate on power solely but produce a car which is more entertaining and more thrilling to drive than cars that will probably cost twice as much or three times and so on.

M1 is purely about driver focus and torque. Two elements that are going to make this a very exciting car. It's a car that is going to be full of characteristics, It is also going to be a car that will be realistically affordable.
Such a concept will be successful in the largest M market , North America.

It also within BMW's drive to produce exciting cars on compact platforms.
The recession told us that consumers were willing to downsize for the right product and we seen that in the 1er. Although there is the trend for "downsizing" in the US it is down to Gas prices which are driving US consumers to smaller compact models. However the added concern amongst everybody is if Gas prices fall to normal levels then American consumers will go back to larger cars. With the M3 overlooking the M1's shoulder it will be positioned not to outclass that car in terms of power.
Which is why it will be in the mid three hundreds.

If there is a car that will define M "The Next chapter" for a new generation it will have to be the M1 , it is really going to bring a lot of new customers to the BMW brand. It will be the equivalent of a must have laptop , tv , ipod etc
An Indulgement you just have to get.
Good info Scott, but how much torque are we talking about here? Additionally, is the handling gonna be on par with the M3 or has it been compromised, like some have stated, to avoid it upstaging the M3? If the aim is "driver focus" then it should be as good as it can be without any compromises.
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