Tail Light Issue, not LEDs.

[Rev Todd]

So I've got a 2009 with stock standard tail lights, with you know, good old fashioned light bulbs in them. They don't work. I've found that I have no power at the end of the harness where it clicks into the housing, so I was figuring that it must be a bad fuse. But it isn't. I checked every single fuse in the whole panel, and they all work. So I'm a little stumped. What's wrong?

The rear fog lights work, and every other light on the car works. I am getting the "lights out" notification on the dash... so at this point I'm guessing it's the switch... but it's just a guess, and seems odd considering the front parking lights do work.

A friend does have an OBDII reader, but I'm not sure if that would do any good in a situation like this.

Any suggestions?

[magalhaes]

Perhaps check the Footwell Module (FRM). It controls lighting (among other things), and there are apparently frequent issues with it, so BMW extended the warranty in the US.

[02Pilot]

You'll need a BMW-specific code reader to access the FRM codes; OBD2 only covers emissions-related faults. No voltage certainly suggests the FRM is the likely cause of the issue.

[Rev Todd]

Hmm, I hadn't heard of the FRM... thanks for that tip. Sounds like a trip to a proper mechanic is in order. I've got to say, I'm a little surprised that even lighting has become complicated! But if the FRM is known for trouble, it sounds like the kind of thing I don't want to buy from a salvage yard, and of course a new one from BMW will be expensive.

Oh well... it's a good car otherwise.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Rev Todd

Hmm, I hadn't heard of the FRM... thanks for that tip. Sounds like a trip to a proper mechanic is in order. I've got to say, I'm a little surprised that even lighting has become complicated! But if the FRM is known for trouble, it sounds like the kind of thing I don't want to buy from a salvage yard, and of course a new one from BMW will be expensive.

Oh well... it's a good car otherwise.

If it's the FRM there is a warranty extension to 100,000+ miles on most 1ers.

[Rev Todd]

Wow! That's surprising! I'm always in favor of free repairs! I'm in Australia though, so I wonder if BMW has offered that to us folks Down Under. The car has 124,000 kms on it, about 76,000 miles.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Rev Todd

Wow! That's surprising! I'm always in favor of free repairs! I'm in Australia though, so I wonder if BMW has offered that to us folks Down Under. The car has 124,000 kms on it, about 76,000 miles.

BMWNA offers a "limited warranty extension" for the Footwell Module (FRM) up to 10 years/156,000 miles for us North Americans. I'm sure Australia has something similar.

[Rev Todd]

So I guess the next step is to find out if the FRM is the problem then. At least diagnosing that shouldn't be difficult.

[Gangplank]

You'll need to read the codes and see if there is an error code that comes up. A regular OBD reader probably won't work. Do you have the Carly app & adapter? Or a shop can do it.

Did you check the bulbs?

[Lexington]

This Perhaps?


2009 Bmw 1 Series Exterior Lighting Service Bulletin 288571

Action Number: 10035584
Service Bulletin Number: 288571

Report Date: Jun 01, 2010
Component: Exterior Lighting


Summary: Bmw: replace rear lamps or replace rear lamp seals. The seals on the rear lamps emit a gas that causes damage to the electrical connectors on the leds (light emitting diodes) inside the rear lamp. In some cases, the leds become inoperative.

[Rev Todd]

Here's the update... I got a friend who has a friend who runs a German car specialty shop, so I took over to his place this morning. Really strange... he hooked up his super computer to it and to the surprise of both of us found nothing wrong. As in, no codes or errors were coming up. He said that his machine can even fix short circuits in the FRM, and he ran that program on it and it came up empty.

The other weird thing that is happening is that the engine service warning has come on, and it won't reset. I tried to do it myself, and when I click "reset" the little clock spins around for a few seconds and then nothing actually changes. The mechanic used his computer to try to reset it as well, and no go. So it's like I've got some gremlins running around through my electrical system. I could have sworn I bought a German car, not a British one! LOL

[JimD]

I do not personally understand or accept the "BMW specific code" discussion of this thread. If your check engine light is on, there should be codes out the OBDII port. That is a U. S. requirement, not optional for manufacturers. They cannot put out some codes and not others. Any OBD code reader will find codes that are present. It may not give you an explanation of what the code is for but you should be able to find that via the internet. I have a separate code reader and a phone/tablet application called torque. I prefer the latter but neither has had any issue on any car. I've never read of an experience that I would agree justifies the brand specific code arguments supporting purchase of a specific brand of code reader.

I had a problem with the bulb - only - in one of my tail lights. I have a 2009 e88. I bought a new tail light for about $100 from parts geek. I've since seen an explanation and a youtube showing how a printed circuit in the tail light can be replaced solving the problem. That would be cheaper but the new tail light fixed the problem. I never got a check engine light from it, however.

[________]

Originally Posted by JimD

I do not personally understand or accept the "BMW specific code" discussion of this thread. If your check engine light is on, there should be codes out the OBDII port. That is a U. S. requirement, not optional for manufacturers. They cannot put out some codes and not others. Any OBD code reader will find codes that are present. It may not give you an explanation of what the code is for but you should be able to find that via the internet. I have a separate code reader and a phone/tablet application called torque. I prefer the latter but neither has had any issue on any car. I've never read of an experience that I would agree justifies the brand specific code arguments supporting purchase of a specific brand of code reader.

I had a problem with the bulb - only - in one of my tail lights. I have a 2009 e88. I bought a new tail light for about $100 from parts geek. I've since seen an explanation and a youtube showing how a printed circuit in the tail light can be replaced solving the problem. That would be cheaper but the new tail light fixed the problem. I never got a check engine light from it, however.

Maybe you just need to study a little more, no biggie.

PS: A light bulb will never trigger a check engine light.

[JimD]

Maybe you need to provide some evidence of your belief or consider changing your mind.

[________]

Originally Posted by JimD

Maybe you need to provide some evidence of your belief or consider changing your mind.

Hey man, you're the one saying a light bulb will trigger a check engine light, come with the evidence yourself

[rmac]

Gentlemen, I am pretty sure the the check engine light is associated with emission related issues only. Other issues may be displayed elsewhere on the dash depending on the design. Headlight out is pretty common, no doubt many other issues will cause a notification, but they will not trigger the "check engine" light.

[JimD]

The displays on your dash are designed by your car's supplier, BMW in this case. They can trigger the check engine light for anything they want. I am pretty sure there is no governmental regulation of the displays on your dash.

My comment about the BMW specific code reader comments is related to U. S. law establishing the OBDII system for codes on your car. There are regulations to be followed with minimum information required to be available for cars sold in the U. S.. There is a standard to be met. The only BMW specific thing that can be done is information in addition to the required data. But it still has to be formatted the same way and any OBDII reader will read it. It may not interpret the code but it will tell you what is stored. Most readers will also clear codes. But if the issue that triggered the codes is still present, it will come back. Depending on how big a deal the car manufacturer decided that issue to be, it may come back immediately or it may happen in a few seconds or minutes. Some things, like oxygen sensors in my experience, also work fine sometimes and then do not put out the right voltage and the check engine light appears. Reset and it may not come back for a month.

Anybody wanting to argue that a BMW specific reader is required needs to present some facts to back up what I believe to be an incorrect opinion. I've been driving and fixing cars longer than some of you have existed. It's easy to type nonsense into a computer but sharing nonsense just wastes peoples time.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by JimD

The displays on your dash are designed by your car's supplier, BMW in this case. They can trigger the check engine light for anything they want. I am pretty sure there is no governmental regulation of the displays on your dash.

My comment about the BMW specific code reader comments is related to U. S. law establishing the OBDII system for codes on your car. There are regulations to be followed with minimum information required to be available for cars sold in the U. S.. There is a standard to be met. The only BMW specific thing that can be done is information in addition to the required data. But it still has to be formatted the same way and any OBDII reader will read it. It may not interpret the code but it will tell you what is stored. Most readers will also clear codes. But if the issue that triggered the codes is still present, it will come back. Depending on how big a deal the car manufacturer decided that issue to be, it may come back immediately or it may happen in a few seconds or minutes. Some things, like oxygen sensors in my experience, also work fine sometimes and then do not put out the right voltage and the check engine light appears. Reset and it may not come back for a month.

Anybody wanting to argue that a BMW specific reader is required needs to present some facts to back up what I believe to be an incorrect opinion. I've been driving and fixing cars longer than some of you have existed. It's easy to type nonsense into a computer but sharing nonsense just wastes peoples time.

Working on a BMW with only OBD2 generic codes won't get you very far. Pretty much useless actually. We never use OBD codes at the dealer.

[JimD]

I don't really know what Canada does but I assume your cars still have a OBDII port - only because the volume of cars for BMW is much greater in the US. I have observed the techs at the local dealership reading information from my key fob and perhaps that is what you are referring to. That is an indirect way of getting the same information and does not change anything relative to the need for BMW specific code readers. There may be other ways to get the codes on BMW - that are admittedly BMW specific - but that doesn't say anything about the ability of a generic reader to find the same codes when hooked up to the OBDII port.

Simply put, I have seen zero evidence that a generic code reader fails to find anything triggering the check engine light on a BMW (or any other car). The OBDII port is also the entry point for coding cars including changing lots of things I have no business messing with. It allows you hook to the car's computer. It will thus also allow you to get information that is useful that has not triggered the check engine light.