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      09-08-2017, 04:03 AM   #23
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I have the ER cooler. The design is really quite poor.
The lines connect on the bottom and sit ridiculously low (pressing against the bumper/undertrays).

Any oil cooler on the stock Thermo isn't ideal. I can still easily get above 120C with some spirited Street driving. In fact I don't think peak temps on the street have dropped at all. Highway cruising drops temps by a few degrees Vs oem cooler.

Need to do another track day to see if it makes a difference. If I can keep Temps below 130C I'll be happy.
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      09-08-2017, 04:11 AM   #24
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Is that the sports cooler? Or twin setup?
Heard they hang low from a few people over the years.
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      09-08-2017, 04:25 AM   #25
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Sport cooler.

Pretty sure twin is just a sport cooler on both sides, at least I've always assumed that was the case.
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      09-08-2017, 05:37 AM   #26
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If Yu run a bypass valve for the track it will be a decent improvement.
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      09-08-2017, 06:06 AM   #27
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      09-08-2017, 08:00 AM   #28
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T1M Dude you really need to learn the basics before you open your mouth

90 c is not optimal by any meanswhat so ever and its not marketing hype

Your giving bad advice to people reading this which most don't know any better

Using e85 which is hydroscopic to begin with higher than normal 110c is better 120c would be ideal

The problem with our bmw they where designed to nanny our cars because of the LL-01 oil standard and to keep our cars under 140
because the oil wont last 20000km oil change intervals

When racing or high performance oils are used its owners rarely run oil any longer than 5k in their engines so running higher than normal oil temps
matters to boil of the e85 out of our oils

If you ever changed oil from an engine that runs e85, it really reeks bad.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.ho...mperature/amp/


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Last edited by martymil; 09-08-2017 at 09:52 AM..
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      09-08-2017, 09:39 AM   #29
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Learn the basics before I open my mouth dude pull your head in.

I don't think we're going to agree on this. E85 is worse for oil dilution yes, however water doesn't need to be 'boiled off' as I said earlier water will evaporate even at room temp. E85 forms more acids via reaction with the blowby gases and combustion byproducts so you need an oil with a good TBN rating to neutralise them and probably also change it out more often. I ran E85 in my previous fun car, I have smelled the oil and after 5K or so it was obvious the oil smelled like E85. Ethanol boils at 78*c so the alcohol fraction is easily removed.

A lot of cars target 80-90*c at idle/cruise. Do some research if you don't believe me but Evo's, STI's, supra 2J's, GTR RB26's all target that range at idle/cruise and peak at 110-120*c with hard use. The engineers that designed those engines know a lot more than you do, and they made that decision. BMW engineers made a different decision for their own reasons and goals - the bigger picture needs to be considered. You tend to end very binary with your opinions but not everything is black and white.

For various reasons BMW run the oil hotter than many road going cars do. We also see a large amount of failures of gaskets, seals and plastics. Might be related might not, but basically everyone says woah, these cars run hot when they first move to them, so it's not just me. Coming from basically anything JDM the N54 oil temps are stupid high.

As always you're free to think and do what you please but your assertion that running oil at 80-90*c cruise temps is somehow terrible is incorrect. It's hot enough to remove water and ethanol, and the oils additive pack - especially the TBN - will deal with acids and such. Oil isn't just lubricating.

To health check your oil (which is a good idea, I use black stone labs in the US) you can take a sample and have them run it in a lab forbwear metals, fuel dilution etc and this will help determine a suitable oil change interval for your car, your fuel and your usage pattern/application.

That's all I'll say on this topic.
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      09-08-2017, 09:48 AM   #30
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STOP giving bad advice, 80-90 oil temps dude your delusional

at bare min temps for oil should be 104c

Speak to any racing team and you tell them what your saying here and they'll laugh you out of the shop

I think your getting mixed up with water temps

yes 80-90 water temps is ideal and 110 plus for oil temp

I don't run an oil cooler or thermostat in my 335 drag car to get the oil nice and hot quickly and aim for 120-130c oil temp

Higher oil temp/ lower water temp = more power
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      09-08-2017, 10:05 AM   #31
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Had you owned any of the cars I listed you'd know. They all run 80-90* oil temps at cruise. They do. Look it up. You're far too arrogant for your knowledge level and the fact you're used to being the loudest voice in the room and the last man standing does not make you right. It makes everyone else sick of your attitude and happy to walk away because you are annoying af.
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      09-08-2017, 10:11 AM   #32
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I've owned more cars and raced more cars then you most probably own in your lifetime.

If I sound arrogant good because I'am to people that give bad advice because they annoy the crap out of me.

I don't have to look anything up because I studied this shit 30 years ago and constantly up to date with current technologies.

Your arrogant by assuming that reading the internet makes your right because some moron wrote something that sounds good.
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      09-08-2017, 10:18 AM   #33
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T1M the Tool-man, Judy, you do use an inordinate amount of words telling people what they know or you think they know. Your assumptions, condescension and unbridled arrogance is laughable although bordering on the bizarre. You really can't deal with people disagreeing with your pomp. Move on and play with your toy.
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      09-08-2017, 11:11 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
I've owned more cars and raced more cars then you most probably own in your lifetime.

If I sound arrogant good because I'am to people that give bad advice because they annoy the crap out of me.

I don't have to look anything up because I studied this shit 30 years ago and constantly up to date with current technologies.

Your arrogant by assuming that reading the internet makes your right because some moron wrote something that sounds good.
Here we go, the old I've raced/owned more chestnut. You're the centre of the universe too I suppose. Save it.

We're discussing facts, Marty not opinions. You said cars do not target oil temps that low. I corrected you, and even listed some that do. To that you replied I was "delusional". The cars I listed do run those oil temps at idle/cruise, and most hit 110-120*C under typical full load. Obviously the more modified and powerful the higher they'll go without some big cores, ducting and water sprayers to assist. Despite those techniques, some like the R35 GTR will go higher on track when tuned. I'll use the R35 GTR as an example because it's a modern high output engine of the same era as the N54 and making roughly the same power stock as a tuned N54.

You state oil temps of 130*C-140*C are perfectly fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
Todays oils can handle huge temps and 130 or 140 is nothing for todays synthetics.
Yeah? Ok, well here's a link to the R35 GTR owners manual. I've extracted the bit about oil temps. Have a read, especially the parts in bold.

https://www.nissan-cdn.net/content/d...ner-manual.pdf

Page 26:

Mobil 1 (0W-40)

MAINTENANCE INTERVAL

. When the oil temperature stays below 110*C while driving
Change engine oil and engine oil filter at the same interval as Schedule 1 and
2 in the 2017 NISSAN GT-R Service and Maintenance Guide.

. When the oil temperature reaches between 110*C and 130*C while driving
Change engine oil and engine oil filter every 3,000 miles (5,000 km).

. When the oil temperature exceeds 130*C while driving
Change engine oil and engine oil filter immediately after stopping

So if the normal (ideal) scenario is that the engine oil doesn't exceed 110*C, then what must the oil be at while at idle/cruise? Lower than 110*C? My friends GTR sits at 92*C on idle/cruise for reference. But Marty didn't you say I was delusional?

Further, the Nissan engineers that designed one of the best modern engines don't think one of the best oils on the market can handle exposure to temps over 130*C well enough to allow you to even continue to use the oil once the temp was reached. They also reduce the OCI to 5000km if the oil sees temperatures between 110*C and 130*C.

Hang on, didn't you say those temps were, and I quote, "nothing for today's synthetics". Doesn't seem like that team of Japanese engineers agrees with you, Marty!

You going to accuse those engineers and Nissan for giving bad advice? Of being delusional? I thought you were up to date with today's technologies Marty? You must be right and they must be wrong!? Pfft what a laugh. You have no idea what you're talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
T1M the Tool-man, Judy, you do use an inordinate amount of words telling people what they know or you think they know. Your assumptions, condescension and unbridled arrogance is laughable although bordering on the bizarre. You really can't deal with people disagreeing with your pomp. Move on and play with your toy.
How cute, here'e the one man Marty fan club, posting right after in true fanboi fashion. If you want an example of laughable and bordering on the bizarre, look no further than yourself.


Like I said before fellas, enjoy your high oil temps and delusions about how totally fine and safe they are. Reality is temps like that are not safe on high output engines and we'd all do well to keep them more around the 110-120*C peak level. The guys in this thread want to discuss oil coolers, so that should be what is discussed here moving forward.
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      09-08-2017, 11:23 AM   #35
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Hey Jude..(excuse the pun), you go 'gal with that narcissistic diatribe (bet you been called that before). You'll probably want some rep for that. I'll be your huckleberry there bra.

On the lighter side. A little Alex Pope (another unfortunate pun) to entertain the wee hour.

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again....

Or in the words of O'Brien (a much older Jude - but he was ironic like),

"'We'll all be rooned', said Hanrahan"

Back to normal programming and self-appointed importance, right Jude? (Oh, almost forgot. Not to leave out what everyone thinks - what a gift!)
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      09-08-2017, 01:28 PM   #36
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There you go quoting what suits you best

Are we talking racing now or street use

in my books doesn't matter when talking hi tech synthetics like available today

here have a good read or buy some books from the link and have a more in-depth one

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...e-differences/

quote

Conventional mineral oils are comfortable up to about 260°F while the superior thermal qualities and shear resistance of synthetic oils still provides protection even above 300°F without viscosity breakdown
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      09-08-2017, 06:21 PM   #37
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Run a 40w oil keep temps below 130C and you'll be sweet.

Street use on a MT there is no need to touch any of the cooling system (unless maybe you've covered half the radiator with a fmic or pushing huge boost on upgraded turbos). Track use an upgraded cooler is recommended pretty easy to get to 135-140C in my experience.

Last edited by titium; 09-09-2017 at 02:26 AM..
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      09-08-2017, 11:15 PM   #38
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I thought this was part of the greater, mainly American forum with the tone of the above posts.

A lot of those engines you guys cited for comparison run relatively primitive stock engine management systems, back in a day when emissions restrictions were so much more lax so the desire to warm up an engine as rapidly as possible was not as great as it is today. A lot of engines never monitored oil temps until the advent of hydraulically operated VVT systems. For these reasons i doubt there was any oil temperature targets in their programming.

The references to the R35 GTR manual are probably written to suit a broad audience rather than a technically minded one.

Ie.
Oil temp up to 110*c: you are driving gently
Oil temp 110-130*c: You are probably driving enthusiastically, through fun roads or moderate track use. Or hot climate region. Change your oil more often.
Oil temp 130*c+: You are driving like a madman or in a hot climate. Or something is faulty. Take it to a workshop ASAP.

Last edited by juld0zer; 09-08-2017 at 11:50 PM..
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      09-09-2017, 03:18 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Hey Jude..(excuse the pun), you go 'gal with that narcissistic diatribe (bet you been called that before). You'll probably want some rep for that. I'll be your huckleberry there bra.

On the lighter side. A little Alex Pope (another unfortunate pun) to entertain the wee hour.

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again....

Or in the words of O'Brien (a much older Jude - but he was ironic like),

"'We'll all be rooned', said Hanrahan"

Back to normal programming and self-appointed importance, right Jude? (Oh, almost forgot. Not to leave out what everyone thinks - what a gift!)
I think you have a few screws loose chief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
There you go quoting what suits you best

Are we talking racing now or street use

in my books doesn't matter when talking hi tech synthetics like available today

here have a good read or buy some books from the link and have a more in-depth one

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...e-differences/

quote

Conventional mineral oils are comfortable up to about 260°F while the superior thermal qualities and shear resistance of synthetic oils still provides protection even above 300°F without viscosity breakdown
Marty, you refused to acknowledge that manufacturers target cruise oil temps in the 80-90*C range. You called me delusional for saying so, and that they would taget 104*C at a bare minimum. You were wrong.

Rather than dredge up older car stats, I linked you to and quoted from a Owner's Manual for the 2017 GTR showing they consider normal ceiling for oil temps is 110*C and your only reply is that I quote what suits me best - I am trying to demonstrate something to you of course I quote something that supports what I'm trying to say... Seems you can add how to support an argument with facts to the list of things you don't understand... it's all just noise and hearsay with you isn't it. Give it a rest mate, everyone on here knows what you're like and you've proved that again in this thread.

You and your lap dog make a great pair. Run your oil hot, whatever, no one here cares.

******************************

I think unless someone can suggest something better I'll grab the dual Mosselman cooler, and replace the standard main and auxillary radiators with the CSF rad.

Last edited by T1M; 09-09-2017 at 03:36 AM..
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      09-09-2017, 03:48 AM   #40
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Same for you run whatever you like but the gtr engine is not the same as bmw so compare apples to apples and no sardines

You call the gtr engine state of the art hahaha, this is when i stoped taking you seriously

You said oil brake down at or after 130c and this is not the case as proven

Just because nissan wants to baby their porcelain like cars but for a fact you will do more damage to a motor with 80 to 90 deg oil temps than you will with 110

I rarher run mine at 110 and change it more often like 5k at most

Actually i change mine at 2.5 to 3k when running e85 and my engine runs like a dream and when tested at blackstone labs the oil was perfect and they recommended to change at 7.5k intervals

And that was running at 120c with stock thermostat and as high as 140 in the peak of summer when i was running 330rwk on stock turbos and straight e85

In conclusion gtr tech is not bmw tech and our engines are built to take high oil temps and if you learned something from the links i posted the ideal temp is 104 to burn off contaminants so why would you want to run below that and cause impurities to mix in with the oil and get pumped around our engines and cause possible damage

Running 110c and changing your oil every 5k is the best compromise even by nissan engineers
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      03-26-2018, 12:24 AM   #41
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So... I'm in the market for an oil cooler upgrade. Is there any other options apart from the ER dual?
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      03-27-2018, 04:31 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyRickard View Post
So... I'm in the market for an oil cooler upgrade. Is there any other options apart from the ER dual?
PM K-Bag he has a oil cooler upgrade that he will probably sell as he's selling his car
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      04-03-2018, 07:05 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
Same for you run whatever you like but the gtr engine is not the same as bmw so compare apples to apples and no sardines

You call the gtr engine state of the art hahaha, this is when i stoped taking you seriously



In conclusion gtr tech is not bmw tech and our engines are built to take high oil temps

So you honestly believe your beloved n54 is far superior to a japanese made gtr engine (what you are referring to is the VR38DETT)???
No wonder nobody here takes you seriously...

The n54 is now where near anywhere close to a 30year old RB26DETT or 2JZ, let alone the VR38DETT. Whatever you are on, that stuff you smokin must be some strong sh%t!!!!
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      04-12-2018, 02:38 AM   #44
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Yeah PM me, I have a setrab cooler than needs to go
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