BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-11-2010, 08:25 PM   #133
Papa13
Go Gators!
Papa13's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
1,621
Posts

Drives: e82 / e90 / e53 / e46
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa / SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 135i  [0.00]
Dyno?
__________________
e90 M-Tech 330i JB/Terra / e82 n54 135i AW/CR 420rwhp 444rwtq - RIP
e53 X5 4.8is M///BLUE/M///SUEDE - 357whp 369wtq - The Snow Beast!
n54 135i JB/CR JB4 FBO - Tc Kline D/A Coils - 11.5 @ 122mph 1/4 mile
18' Blue/Black SEL Premium R-Line 4 Motion Tiguan - Mods on order
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 10:08 AM   #134
Buzz135
Private
4
Rep
64
Posts

Drives: 135
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: norcal

iTrader: (0)

I have seen the Brracing 135 on the track and this guy knows how to make speed. He has one fast 135.
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 10:37 AM   #135
AlBel1214
Major
AlBel1214's Avatar
52
Rep
1,118
Posts

Drives: past 135i, now c6, future M3??
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philly

iTrader: (0)

^^^ Not the point... the fact you put out a product and in 4 months can't show some comparison numbers is what the issue is...
__________________

-----LS3 C6-----
z51 suspension, NPP dual mode exhaust(wild2mild),20% tint, zr1 replica wheels, gloss black fender stripes
R.I.P SGM 135i w/ some mods
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 02:47 PM   #136
Monster335is
Waking up from hybernation
Monster335is's Avatar
10
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: 2012 335is
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Monica

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlBel1214 View Post
^^^ Not the point... the fact you put out a product and in 4 months can't show some comparison numbers is what the issue is...
Agreed they're asking 1500 for their system, yet somehow they can't show any dyno sheets proving why their system is worth it??? FAIL
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 03:25 PM   #137
Papa13
Go Gators!
Papa13's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
1,621
Posts

Drives: e82 / e90 / e53 / e46
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa / SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 135i  [0.00]
Dyno?
__________________
e90 M-Tech 330i JB/Terra / e82 n54 135i AW/CR 420rwhp 444rwtq - RIP
e53 X5 4.8is M///BLUE/M///SUEDE - 357whp 369wtq - The Snow Beast!
n54 135i JB/CR JB4 FBO - Tc Kline D/A Coils - 11.5 @ 122mph 1/4 mile
18' Blue/Black SEL Premium R-Line 4 Motion Tiguan - Mods on order
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 03:43 PM   #138
hamo26
Private First Class
Canada
14
Rep
155
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2006
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

I didnt spend time looking thru all the replies, but if someone really wants this design, have they thought of making it themselves? it seems very do-able. you just need to purchase those gold heat resistant foil, some plastic boards, a tool that cuts plastic boards, and some rubber seal/silicone and a glue gun and 2 intake filters. you will probably save yourself atleast $1200.
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 03:52 PM   #139
kirby135i
Lieutenant
United_States
15
Rep
506
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: here

iTrader: (1)

true, u can get the STETT chargepipe and tial BOV on the E90 group buy for under $500
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2010, 03:56 PM   #140
///M1
Brigadier General
///M1's Avatar
United_States
271
Rep
3,164
Posts

Drives: Many
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North of 7K RPM

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamo26 View Post
I didnt spend time looking thru all the replies, but if someone really wants this design, have they thought of making it themselves? it seems very do-able. you just need to purchase those gold heat resistant foil, some plastic boards, a tool that cuts plastic boards, and some rubber seal/silicone and a glue gun and 2 intake filters. you will probably save yourself atleast $1200.
Yes, this guy did, exactly what Dinan has, just the home solution

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...3538&highlight
__________________
2011 BMW E82 1///M: AW, all options; Renntech, Akrapovic, Forge, P3, RevoZ CF bits, many mods
1988 BMW E30 M3: Hennarot, S14, stock
2018 Porsche 991.2 GT3: PtS, CXX, LWBS, PCCB
1998 Porsche 993 C4S: Zenith Blue, last aircooled widebody, Bilstein PSS10, Fister II + Fabspeed exhaust
2008 Audi B7 RS 4: Sprint Blue, Audi Exclusive Euro Bucket Interior, Premium+Titanium, many mods
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2010, 11:34 PM   #141
Jettafanatic
Private First Class
Jettafanatic's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

iTrader: (2)

Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Yes, this guy did, exactly what Dinan has, just the home solution

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...3538&highlight
I have been following this from a distance, and wanted to see where it went, but I just wanted to remind people of a few things before we go bashing companies / prices on first knee-jerk reaction and start getting demanding of Dynos and start incendiary posts...

1) If there were no people out there thinking "out of the box", there would be no aftermarket.

2) The cost of something has to do with much more than just the cost of material: R&D, time planning / developing / fabricating / testing cannot be given a fixed $ amount.

3) IF one wants to pass judgment, one must first do his research carefully:
"you just need to purchase those gold heat resistant foil, some plastic boards, a tool that cuts plastic boards, and some rubber seal/silicone and a glue gun and 2 intake filters. you will probably save yourself at least $1200."
There are multiple fallacies here:

A] As you can see from this picture: there seems to be a metal ( Aluminum with TIG welding?) Box which has been cut / welded and then modified to result in their version. No plastic boards / rubber seal here.

B] "save yourself at least $1200": you don't even know the price of the kit yet... per their own words: "Will post pricing soon...but we can sell today (price today is $1,500 for complete kit, in any powder coated color), but hope to bring the price down by simplifying the kit a little, and optmizing the kit (drive out some costs), and will release in multiple forms (complete kit, or without charge pipe and BOV) and kits that can be upgraded a piece at a time." Consider they mentioned, if I read correctly, that was with Charge Pipe and BOV , and considering a SETT CP with BOV is $565 retail, the airbox itself would probably be significantly cheaper than 1500.

C]The Dinan CF intake: is $999. No one seems to question their claim that their "cold air intake force feeds the 3 liter turbocharged inline 6 with greater volumes of cool, oxygen rich air for substantial power gains by utilizing [their] secondary carbon fiber intake. The system is so effective that the carbon fiber inlet air temperature is a full 40 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the incoming air from the stock inlet. ". You want to prove to me that the incoming air at 60 MPH from in front of the grill is 40F higher than that at ground level? What planet would that be on?
Also, I think the claim that "Due to the increased airflow from our intake, the power-curve is extended into the higher RPM’s for a noticeable change" is accurate ( see my other posts on AFE VS DCI VS OEM Box on the Forums ) in that the stock air box has that strange squarish restriction from the post-filter area to the velocity stacks... having and additional entry point eliminates that restriction ( which the point behind this guy's work : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...3538&highlight ) hence more pull at higher revs ( i.e. why I like the BMS DCI design) which is likely the point of the dual filter design on the ASR box. And while I applaud Mr. 5's ingenuity, having done something similar myself, the stock box and his hose are not that great at isolating from Heat and if there is no constant monitoring of what the extra tube may rub against / what may perforate it, there will always be this nagging fear that something may get sucked in through a possible generated hole behind its filter and straight down the velocity Stacks... then down to the Engine. Not likely to worry about that with AR Design's box.

4) Another alternative to the AR box is the Gruppe M Intake which is based on the same idea ( i.e. utilize the stock pick-up from the grille) and isolated the heat / place bigger air filter ) but that will run you in the $1400-$1500 range, if you can get one, and you don't fall for the fake knock-offs that prop up on Ebay occasionally...

5) The post was not about a final product ready to sell, but obviously was to gauge interest / see if it could be sold ( feasibility study of sorts ) that given the less than positive remarks on this board probably led to consideration of canning of the project and diversion of time / effort to other projects...
I am not surprised not to see dynos as I, in the same position, would have said "forget about it" and canned the project.

I think a little more patience, a little less harassment, a little more encouragement, may lead to better response from the Tuners out there and a better chance of more innovative products for us to benefit from.
Feel free to disagree.
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2010, 11:42 PM   #142
Jettafanatic
Private First Class
Jettafanatic's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

iTrader: (2)

Oh, and one more thing: let us not forget that in general there seems to be a "plenum effect" from closed boxes which results in Torque usually lost from CAIs / cones etc. system. The gain in flow in the form of HP can be at the expense of Torque ( Mr. % says so himself in the permutation she did to get to his box). In fact, I find very curious AFE's dual Intake design in that the two are not connected by just a plastic piece: that is actually hollow and connects the two ducts' flow ... one wonders is they came to that by testing and trying to mimic the fact that with the stock OEM box the velocity stacks collect air from a common area.. as the Gruppe M, as the Dinan, as the ASR box...
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.

Last edited by Jettafanatic; 03-14-2010 at 11:42 PM.. Reason: typo
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2010, 11:50 PM   #143
jeremyc74
Banned
United_States
76
Rep
5,970
Posts

Drives: '08 135i Montego/Terra
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Evansville, IN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jettafanatic View Post
2) The cost of something has to do with much more than just the cost of material: R&D, time planning / developing / fabricating / testing cannot be given a fixed $ amount.

Sure it can. I do it every day of the week.

But that's beside the point. The real problem here is "Where is the testing?" How are we supposed to know this thing doesn't actually LOSE power?

Are we supposed to take someone's word for their seat of the pants feel on something like this? If it's been extensively tested, where are the dyno sheets? I don't know of any other reasonable way to do this kind of testing, so in this case it simply hasn't been done.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'll pay a premium for something that works well, but you better be able to demonstrate that it does before you start asking for my money, and I damn sure don't want to hear excuses about why it can't be done. If you're going to be in the business of selling perofrmance parts, you better not get offended when people ask you to prove that they ACTUALLY perform.

Fabrication and materials on this thing will be under $500. If these guys are paying more than that for it, they need to find another sheetmetal shop to deal with. That means there's about $1000 to cover testing and development cost in EACH unit. If they sell 5 of them they've more than covered the cost of building a prototype and a couple of trips to the dyno to see how it performs.

I shocks the hell out of me to see people get behind something like this with absolutely no data whatsoever backing it up.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2010, 12:44 AM   #144
brracing
brracing's Avatar
United_States
23
Rep
194
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, 135i, Mini Cooper S -
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (1)

Just to add some salt on this thread....here is a post from TODAY about results the ASR 135i had, w upgraded turbos....AND....what...what did I see under the hood, the ASR closed intake system....this is very serious performance indeed.

TOP SPEED runs currently being held in Florida. The event is all about seeing how fast your car will be at the end of a 1 mile stretch. Starting from stand still.

I just got word that the ASR 135 just did 177mph! By comparison, a GTR with full bolt-on mods did 171mph.

The 135 has the following mods:

Stg 3 mods
Meth injection
ASR upgraded turbos
Procede v4 @ 19psi

Just to make it clear, this is NOT a top speed run. This is just how fast the car is going by the 1 mile mark. To put this in perspective, this is faster than a C6 Z06 and only a few mph off a C6 ZR1. Serious territory for a car that is shaped like a top hat.

See the other post about this run by ASR.

We are playing w other elements to make the system easier to build, and cheaper...but we believe in the design....this is what building a solid solution is all about...testing, testing, testing....
Bruce
BRracing
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2010, 07:47 AM   #145
rsjean
satch
rsjean's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,040
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sonoran Desert, Tucson AZ

iTrader: (3)

Lot's of passion. Lot's of "War and Peace" length posts. But not much focus on what the simple issue is and has been all along.

Why no dyno tests complete, documented and posted to help substantiate impressive claims that would justify an impressive price tag?

And discussions about the performace results of a 135i that has many, many mods of which This Intake may or may not be a contributing factor is interesting but not germane.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2010, 08:42 AM   #146
AlBel1214
Major
AlBel1214's Avatar
52
Rep
1,118
Posts

Drives: past 135i, now c6, future M3??
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philly

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjean View Post
Lot's of passion. Lot's of "War and Peace" length posts. But not much focus on what the simple issue is and has been all along.

Why no dyno tests complete, documented and posted to help substantiate impressive claims that would justify an impressive price tag?

And discussions about the performace results of a 135i that has many, many mods of which This Intake may or may not be a contributing factor is interesting but not germane.

Yeah seriously... this whole thread could be put to bed with a few simple words...

Stock airbox on stock car- HP/TQ
Aftermarket air box on stock car - HP/TQ

the END...
__________________

-----LS3 C6-----
z51 suspension, NPP dual mode exhaust(wild2mild),20% tint, zr1 replica wheels, gloss black fender stripes
R.I.P SGM 135i w/ some mods
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2010, 09:47 AM   #147
escobar929
Brigadier General
escobar929's Avatar
154
Rep
4,528
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hollywood, FL

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2020 M2 CS  [10.00]
2020 M240i  [0.00]
more than power gains/losses i would like to see the diff in air temps and air flow, too see if in fact more cooler air is going in as they say

no doubt this would have to be the case if it made more power
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2010, 07:04 AM   #148
Migsboyfresh
Donde esta la biblioteca?
Migsboyfresh's Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
184
Posts

Drives: like fernando alonso
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evifytrihteno View Post
So how is this better than the $129 solution BMS offfers? Does paying over 10x as much give me 10x the horsepower?
+10000
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2010, 02:43 PM   #149
Papa13
Go Gators!
Papa13's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
1,621
Posts

Drives: e82 / e90 / e53 / e46
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa / SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 135i  [0.00]
Dyno?
__________________
e90 M-Tech 330i JB/Terra / e82 n54 135i AW/CR 420rwhp 444rwtq - RIP
e53 X5 4.8is M///BLUE/M///SUEDE - 357whp 369wtq - The Snow Beast!
n54 135i JB/CR JB4 FBO - Tc Kline D/A Coils - 11.5 @ 122mph 1/4 mile
18' Blue/Black SEL Premium R-Line 4 Motion Tiguan - Mods on order
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2010, 04:26 PM   #150
JBW
Lieutenant
United_States
41
Rep
436
Posts

Drives: 2010 135i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England, USA

iTrader: (3)

Subscribed.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST