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      07-11-2019, 09:31 PM   #1
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Frustrated: Here's why the 135i is NOT a good track car choice...

... I admit, I'm a little sour right now. My N55 has been sort of a pain in the butt and I've worked through issues with JB4, had to replace the DME (see JB4), and put MHD on which causes the car to chronically go into limp mode. I've pretty resigned myself to running stock tune FBO on track and while I'm eeking out slightly better lap times, the question still comes to mind: IS the 135i a good choice for a track car? I just don't think so after a year and half of ownership and a broken car currently sitting in the garage.

ALL TRACK CARS WILL BREAK

If you go into the game with this in mind, it's not only a true statement but something to consider when choosing a car for HPDE, let alone racing. The 135i is shown to make decent power with it's little turbo, has a host of upgrades available, but with stock cooling it just can't handle the heat of tracking. I got into a discussion with a guy at the track with a 2013 who "never has any problems" and figured I must be crazy. Well, we were running about 10+ seconds a lap difference in lap times (I would lap him every session) so I didn't think that was a fair comparison- he's just not sending it as hard.

My current issue is still unofficially diagnosed as rod bearings. In fact, there is so much copper in my oil filter I'm surprised I haven't (yet) hear a massive rod knock from a disintegrated or spun bearing. I'm stock power, stock cooling and run either Liquid Moly 5w40 or Rotella T6 5w40 in a pinch and change the oil and filter every 3rd track day.

HOW DID I GET HERE?

Well, I was having a great day on 7/1 at NYST with the new Nankang AR1's. I was hitting over 1.4g's in a few turns (I have wang, splitter and hood extractors) and setting PB fast laps when everyone else was 2 seconds off their best in our club. I was chasing down a supercharged e92 M3 track car (and caught him). I decided to let him lead and that's when things got too hot... the car began to over heat and I backed off... too late, 4 turns later it was dead on the side of the track. Wouldn't start, couldn't get into Neutral (DCT) and we had to drag it off the track to a safe spot so the next session could go out. (I did put on the handbrake and only one tire was still on the tarmac). 2 hours later I went to retrieve it when the track was cold and it started up, I limped it to the pits. Oil level was fine, coolant level was fine, nothing out of the ordinary, no noises, etc.

I swapped wheels, packed the car for the 4 hour drive home. No CEL's (I have a new DME so I assume everything is working because it definitely hates the MHD Stage 2+ tune and goes into limp mode on 3 cylinders within 3 laps - new plugs, new coils btw, gapped correctly, etc). So I get an hour into the drive and I'm meeting my friend with a 1999 M3 track car with 202,000 miles on his trailer. We're meeting for dinner and to caravan back and my car started making a noise like a stuck lifter, within the last few miles before I got to our meetup spot. We send a vid to a couple BMW mechanics and they all advise not to drive the car... duh. So we trailer it home, me driving his M3 race car now for the remaining 3 hours. One of the conti slicks blows out on the PA Turnpike, so that's a sketchy moment but we change the wheel and I made it home.

DIAGNOSIS

Next day we pull car off the trailer at my house and coincidentally there is no noise again... it went 100 feet into my garage. I pulled the filter and it's copper-fest 5000. In fact, I bet the oil pickup is also clogged and the filter being so clogged caused the lifter ticking. Solid.

So, Now I have to save up $2500 for the rod bearing job *if* the motor is salvageable. We won't know until I tow it to the shop and he pulls the oil pan, etc.

I've had a lot of headaches with this car, and in the same amount of time my friend with a Supercharged BRZ who tracks 2x as much and is faster than me has had 1 problem with his car - a trans bearing and put in a used trans for $500.

Is it just me... or are these cars not a good choice for a track car? Help me stay positive below, share your experiences, etc... If the car is fixable, we are FOR SURE doing the CSF 7046 Rad and ER Oil Cooler (single side). I have the BMS Thermostat by pass which helps on the street, but not really on the track.
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      07-12-2019, 08:43 AM   #2
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You've spent a ton of money on go fast parts, but nothing on cooling? I understand you're frustrated, but just about any car that you plan to drive on track will need upgrades to the cooling system. Have you monitored your temps with MHD?
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      07-12-2019, 10:04 AM   #3
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Engine is probably scrap. Oil starvation doesn't just kill the rod bearings. The intake cam is probably wrecked as well. Crankshaft is probably too toasted to have it machined back to a usable tolerance... Stay on the lookout for a used engine. They pop up frequently in the $2-3k range. You can have it swapped in an afternoon in your driveway...

Have you seen my thread over at spool street? I never bothered cross posting it here, but, I did post a few references to it over at 2addicts in a few "track oil starvation" threads that popped up.

I spun bearings at Pocono. No noise, no knocking, no warnings. The car rolled to a stop mid-corner:


This thread goes through what I found upon tear-down:
https://bmw.spool [delete this] street.com/threads/addressing-n5x-oiling-and-spun-rod-bearings-accusump-installed.4034/

Consider the fact that at 1.0g oil will ride up the side of the oil pan at a 45* angle. These engines have a pretty poor oil sump for performance driving. They are relatively shallow on one end and there is no baffle to keep oil from sloshing forward away from the pickup. N5x are mass produced street engines. They are not an M division performance engine. They do not get any special oiling provisions like the M2/3/4+ gets to handle 1.2g+. I'm pretty sure older BMW's are baffled at least...

With that being said, every street engine has oiling issues when abused at the track. Supercharged 86's are no exception. They pop left and right lol. Anecdotal experience from your friend means nothing. Very few street cars have oiling provisions for performance driving. LS engines, an engine praised by enthusiasts as being reliable, have the same issue. Some guys swap in the GM "batwing" oil pan from higher end models. Lotus drivers, who depend heavily on carrying high lateral g's, to be "fast," have the same issue. They swap in aftermarket baffled and deeper oil pans. Or, they retrofit the factory available solution which is an Accusump (oil accumulator). The 328i N20 race cars have developed a deeper and baffled oil pan to mitigate oil starvation on those engines (threads on addicts about it).

You'll find tons of threads about Lemon's racers looking to cure oil starvation in their $500 shit-boxes in order to make it through a season lol Lots of interesting solutions come out of those threads... but it's definitely eye opening if you're not well versed in what it takes to get an engine around a track in "race" conditions reliably. I've seen Lemons cars tear down engines mid-race and try to cement water jackets shut to make it through a race lol.

None of this is to say that a 135i is a bad car to track. Consider what you just said... your friend with a supercharged brz is faster than you. Now compare how much money you would have to put into one to get it to that point... A clean BRZ is going to run you more than a decent 135i. Lets say 13k vs 15K. Then add the $5k supercharger kit onto that. Then add the cost of other odds and ends he has done. His car would cost you at least $20k. That $7k difference will buy you a LOT of mods for your 135i to turn it into a track car. Now consider the BRZ/FRS power-train is made of glass. He's going to blow diffs, break axles, and kill transmissions with the extra power as the miles stack up. 135i is overbuilt in that regard.

What other cars have you really compared the 135i to? A corvette? Ok sure I'd love one... if you want to spend $30k that is. A Camaro 1Le? They look fun as hell, but, again $30k+ used still. A Porsche? I am sure they are real cheap for a track worthy one lol. Surely cheap to maintain too. Get my point? You think BRZ's with blowers don't have heating issues? Corvettes either? Go on the various forums and you'll see the threads about 300f+ oil temps and people saying it's normal don't worry about it LOL. There are plenty of threads about blown engines too. EJ engines in the Subaru's are notorious for blowing engines. So much so they have tried to file class actions. You really trust the subaru boxster engine in the FRS/BRZ? Techsport racing blew the diff in their car last season right off teh starting line at LimeRock. They keep engines and drive-train components on hand. Swapped in and got back into the race within the 40minutes to get their drive a point.

Now consider the work it takes to build off a cheaper platform... A civic? E36 bmw? A Miata? None of those cars are going to be punching at the same level as a 135i without massive work. A spec Miata is several seconds slower then me at several tracks I've been too in my 135i. Maybe not at HPDE, but, take a look at your local time trial results. The grass is always greener on the other side...

A used engine for these cars really isn't all that bad. Do some research and really think about what you want out of the car. Saying a $13k 135i isn't a good track car because it needs a few dollars put into it to be competitive with $25k+ cars like an E92 M3 feels like a bit of a jaded opinion to me based on your recent experience.

On a side note, I've got parts from three different N55s in my garage right now with blown engines. 1 was extremely neglected with oil caked up everywhere. No surprise it failed. Seems like it ate a belt at one point too as the pan had been opened up recently and wire wheeled clean. Bearings pulled from all three engines seem to indicate oil starvation as the cause of failure, in my opinion. Main bearings all look really good which doesn't indicate the crank or engine casing is an issue, again this is my opinion. Our oil pump gear is keyed to the shaft so it's impossible to slip and lose pressure (unless you spin the crank hub). I don't think the oil pump, or its capacity to deliver oil, is an issue. I think either something causes pressure to drop at the rods (oil pressure leakage somewhere in the system), or, the pickup runs dry causing intermittent oil starvation. A pocket of air getting delivered to a bearing face for even a split second can result in the bearing smearing and welding itself to the crank... Fatigue of the bearings surface from accelerated wear/high load can also play a role. Below are some links to some pictures. Two different sets of bearings are presented. First set shows the rods along side the mains. Second set shows just some of the the rod bearings shells. The spun bearings are still welded to the crank and the mains are still in the block (haven't finished taking it apart). The "good" rod bearings from both sets are discolored and a bit shiny from accelerated wear, but, that seems to be fairly normal. There don't appear to be signs of any kind of misalignment or other issues like rod stretch on those rod bearings... just a few scratches on the surface meaning some foreign material passed through them. Maybe related to the spun bearings...:

https://ibb.co/Mp3JsV0
https://ibb.co/8xJ8q8T
https://ibb.co/xJzSYCf
https://ibb.co/mq9H2R9
https://ibb.co/s5vPgcN

Last edited by bbnks2; 08-29-2019 at 08:02 AM..
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      07-12-2019, 11:44 AM   #4
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Thanks for that info bbanks. What has been your solution?
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      07-12-2019, 12:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mKilgore View Post
Thanks for that info bbanks. What has been your solution?
I put in an Accusump. I'd like to also eventually mimic the M2/3/4 oiling system by installing a pump to transfer oil from the front of the pan to the rear too. If you read through that spool street thread someone did that on their Z4 track car. That is what BMW does. You can see that oiling setup in the "BMW S55 engine pdf." This way under braking and high G's you always have oil returning to the rear sump where the pickup tube is.

The other thing I am looking at with all these parts I have now is the oiling holes on the crank and bearings. Seems like the main bearings don't align with webbing oiling holes 100%. I may try to enlarge the oiling hole on the crank which feeds the rods and also boring out the crank bearings themselves so that the main bearing feed hole isn't obscured in any way. Not too sure there is any impact by the small overlap, but, It's all scrap parts so if I get a working engine out of all this stuff I'd be happy. Aftermarket King Bearings also overlap the oiling hole in the same way.

Last edited by bbnks2; 07-12-2019 at 12:40 PM..
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      07-12-2019, 12:59 PM   #6
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I found your write-up on spool street. Very good info and useful responses from most everyone. I do see what you are saying wherein the accusump is only fixing the symptom of low oil pressure, it is not really fixing the issue with the oiling system. I could have sworn that I saw one of the BMW racing teams (Turner or Bimmerworld) that had an N55 baffled oil pan, but I can't find it now. I must have been imagining it.

Regardless, just one more thing to add to the list of issues to address, unfortunately I'm sorry to the OP that it happened to you. Hopefully you'll keep this thread updated as you find out more news/info.
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      07-12-2019, 01:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mKilgore View Post
I found your write-up on spool street. Very good info and useful responses from most everyone. I do see what you are saying wherein the accusump is only fixing the symptom of low oil pressure, it is not really fixing the issue with the oiling system. I could have sworn that I saw one of the BMW racing teams (Turner or Bimmerworld) that had an N55 baffled oil pan, but I can't find it now. I must have been imagining it.

Regardless, just one more thing to add to the list of issues to address, unfortunately I'm sorry to the OP that it happened to you. Hopefully you'll keep this thread updated as you find out more news/info.
Vac makes an N54 oil pan baffle. People have put them into the N55 pan with slight modifications. The pans are virtually identical outside of some small changes.
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      07-12-2019, 02:37 PM   #8
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I really don't think the N55 has any real issues many other cars don't as was said in great detail above.

If it makes you feel any better, I have a '97 M3. It has gone through two different iterations of LS swap. First engine was a '98 LS1, stock long block, 409 whp. Made it 3 autocross runs before oil starvation ended it's life. No aero. Added a Improved Racing baffle to the oil pan and the next LS1 lived for an entire season, and is still alive in another car today.

Second version, LS3 based, 504whp, big aero (APR GT1000, 8" splitter, etc.) 315s on 18x12s. Baffle, 1.5 quarts overfilled. Any long corner it is down to 15psi oil pressure. Car will be getting a dry sump next season, but I really can't run it on track until one is installed. Not a huge deal as it is 99% a hillclimb car (don't really see long enough cornering loads for it to be an issue), but the oiling issues are preventing me from running any time attack events until it is addressed. Also had to add two -12 AN lines to the center of both valve covers to catch cans to prevent it from puking all of its oil out within the span of two laps (pools in front and rear of covers).

Just pointing out like above all platforms have their issues that need to be addressed before they can be reliable on track.
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      07-12-2019, 02:44 PM   #9
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Arrow get an Accusump...

Geez, that's a lot of metal in your oil filter. Yeah, one would think your engine is toast along with all of your oil cooling system components.

Seven years ago I toured Mannhart Racing GmbH in Wuppertal, Germay...

euro 1Addicts visit Manhart Racing GmbH...
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732251


They recommended changing rod bearings every year for track or a serious road car with all the bolts ons. They also designed special new coolers... water, oil and intercoolers to keep temps under control. They also said to run TWS(M3) 10W60 engine oil but I think that's over the tops. But that is what they recommended.


For any track car... I would run a Canton Racing accusump. This keeps an extra few quarts of oil in your oiling system.... but more importantly it maintains oil pressure when your engine oiling system sucks air during cornering. The Canton Accusump can save your engine from internal damage. You can also use it to pre-pressurize your engine on cold starts. IF you look at a race car... most have an Accusump.

Name:  Canton Accusump ctr-24-016_w.jpg
Views: 5768
Size:  19.0 KB








Early N55's engine ECU's were unstable for tuning. I don't think they became stable enough were they wouldn't go into limp mode until the end of the 2nd model year: late 2012 builds. Just FYI. Peter from TuningWerk(Munich) told me that years ago. He knows his BMW's.


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      07-12-2019, 03:27 PM   #10
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I couldn't agree more. Anyone who thinks this is a good track car is either crazy, not driving hard or for very long, or you've modified the car to such a ridiculous extent its 135iness is only vestigial.
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      07-12-2019, 04:44 PM   #11
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Buy an 8th gen Civic Si. Lap all day, check the oil, drive home. Do it again next week, and again, and again, and again.
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      07-12-2019, 05:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mKilgore View Post
You've spent a ton of money on go fast parts, but nothing on cooling? I understand you're frustrated, but just about any car that you plan to drive on track will need upgrades to the cooling system. Have you monitored your temps with MHD?
I monitored them with the JB4 connect prior to removing that. The difference between stock hood and vented hood was significant on track (Up to -20 degrees as well as IAT's dropping a bit, but it's just getting hot out now) and lead me to believe I didn't have to run out and get a bigger radiator. Oil temp was always my concern.

The oil temps are always about 260-270 on track.

Even though the engine died, not a drop of coolant was lost. Power steering fluid is another story, unrelated... but an AGA tank is for sure in the future plans.
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      07-12-2019, 05:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Engine is probably scrap. Oil starvation doesn't just kill the rod bearings. The intake cam is probably wrecked as well.
I wanted to tell you I found your article on Sp00lStr33t the day after my car broke. I have been through many track cars and motor issues (Subaru, Porsche, etc). That's why expressed my caveat and said I was frustrated and discouraged (and broke). I have still have a Porsche but after grenading my last one I'm not going to risk this one (M96 in both).

The Accusump is definitely a great idea, and you have a much better handle on the oiling system issues than I do. I definitely did not go into this thing thinking it would be flawless, but you never know when something's gonna go. I'm glad it was not in dramatic, block-windowing fashion.

Also, at least it's not an S55. In our club 3 guys have had spun crank hubs in the last 4 months. M2CS, M3 and M4. All running bigger tunes.

I know BRZs will break as well... it just seems like the cost of replacing parts is less. I honestly don't know if this is true, but it "seems" like it. I love a lot about the 135i, and it tends to be one of the faster 1's out on the track any given day. (on stock power pretty much all season +the FBO mods). Also, lighter weight and lower CG go a long way in the track game.

So, it sounds like I shouldn't even waste the money with anything other than a replacement motor. I haven't dropped the oil yet so maybe I'll do that and see what kind of bigger chunks make it out.

When I made spreadsheet of everything the car would need (and I bought it with many of the parts that are on it), the cooling was at the top... but I think oil starvation has been the silent enemy like you said. NYST is 18 turns in 2.2 miles, and definitely puts the hurt on components. I'll check out all the stuff you guys have added to this thread and formulate a plan for resurrection.
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      07-12-2019, 10:14 PM   #14
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I've know of 3 local blown N55 engines on track and almost no examples of N54 on track engine failures.

Mostly due to oil issues, the M2 has a different oil pickup setup - I plan to baffle my N54 oil pan but have 4k+ track miles with no issues.
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      07-12-2019, 10:27 PM   #15
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In my last track day a N55 broke down due to oil starvation so this is top of my list right now.

bbnks2 i read the thread that you mention above. Could you please put more info about the Accusump that you install

Last edited by Sancs; 07-12-2019 at 10:51 PM..
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      07-13-2019, 08:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
I've know of 3 local blown N55 engines on track and almost no examples of N54 on track engine failures.

Mostly due to oil issues, the M2 has a different oil pickup setup - I plan to baffle my N54 oil pan but have 4k+ track miles with no issues.
Just Google n54 track oil starvation... people have been blowing up n54s at the track since 2008. Both n54s I've seen at the track windowed their blocks. Almost every local n54 owner that talks down on n55s in the various Facebook groups has recently blown an engine. I wont name anyone but one of the guys is currently searching for a crankshaft for a seized engine. Another threw a rod put the side of his block. But yeah... only n55s fail.

Let's not turn this into an argument about which engine is shittier. They both use the same rod bearing clearance and shells. Loading of the rod bearings might be different due to the way we tune n55s for gobs of torque at low rpms... that's literally the only thing that might cause n55s to fail more than n54s. Everything else is virtually the same. Hold both in your hands and try to say one will fail more than the other...
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      07-13-2019, 12:15 PM   #17
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My N54 hanged itself- not really a secret that they will wipe bearings. Happens to plenty of them, and my new motor's bearings were not that pretty for 40k miles. RB jobs are really cheap insurance, especially since a failure can take your turbos too.

Somebody really needs to hook up a oil pressure sender up to the N54 and get the data to put this to rest.
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      07-13-2019, 02:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
I've know of 3 local blown N55 engines on track and almost no examples of N54 on track engine failures.

Mostly due to oil issues, the M2 has a different oil pickup setup - I plan to baffle my N54 oil pan but have 4k+ track miles with no issues.
Just Google n54 track oil starvation... people have been blowing up n54s at the track since 2008. Both n54s I've seen at the track windowed their blocks. Almost every local n54 owner that talks down on n55s in the various Facebook groups has recently blown an engine. I wont name anyone but one of the guys is currently searching for a crankshaft for a seized engine. Another threw a rod put the side of his block. But yeah... only n55s fail.

Let's not turn this into an argument about which engine is shittier. They both use the same rod bearing clearance and shells. Loading of the rod bearings might be different due to the way we tune n55s for gobs of torque at low rpms... that's literally the only thing that might cause n55s to fail more than n54s. Everything else is virtually the same. Hold both in your hands and try to say one will fail more than the other...
Not trying to argue lol, just speaking to personal experience... Same oil pan/pickup design on both engines?

Bummer dude.
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      07-13-2019, 04:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
Not trying to argue lol, just speaking to personal experience... Same oil pan/pickup design on both engines?

Bummer dude.
The manual pans are 99% the same. Cant speak for the autos.

The pickup tube and windage tray on the n55 is revised but that's got nothing to do with anything. It sits in the same place in the pan.
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      07-13-2019, 11:34 PM   #20
gmx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
I've know of 3 local blown N55 engines on track and almost no examples of N54 on track engine failures.

Mostly due to oil issues, the M2 has a different oil pickup setup - I plan to baffle my N54 oil pan but have 4k+ track miles with no issues.
What turns seems to kill them, right handers?
Please post pics of your baffle when you do it
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      07-16-2019, 01:12 PM   #21
beattiecj
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Damn, sorry to hear about your car NYST is a cool place.

Not sure what your plans are with the car now, but def get an Oil Cooler if you keep on tracking it gives you I think another .5 quart of oil and run it stock or with the BMW PPK. This is how I run my N55 DCT its been solidly reliable, and I am not pussy footing around Lime Rock, NJMP or Mid-Ohio in the car. If you want times holla a PM and I'll send you what I have.

I think this car is capable, it obviously has its weaknesses like almost every other car if you are to take it to the track. Though this car with 200TW tires, a decent suspension setup and good pads is relatively quick compared to others such as e92M3s, Caymans and corvettes for a much lower price point overall and keeping all creature comforts. I debate all the time if I should sell the car and get an M3, C6, BRZ bleh bleh... but the cost of re-investing in a car just adds up and the overall performance for track days does not make sense.

Good luck, hope you are able to salvage the motor.
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      07-16-2019, 02:52 PM   #22
Ginger_Extract
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Buy an 8th gen Civic Si. Lap all day, check the oil, drive home. Do it again next week, and again, and again, and again.
Have you been watching my videos? LMFAO.

At this point, I am going to get my 2010 Civic Si down to comparable lap times as my heavily modified 135i with the stock 200hp engine.

The 135i is just a terrible platform for serious tracking, unless your budget is fucking enormous.
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