BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read




 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-27-2016, 08:08 AM   #1
swagon
Major General
swagon's Avatar
No_Country
13484
Rep
8,148
Posts

Drives: F80 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

"1 M needed another year of development", says chief engineer

Quote:
... Frank Isenberg – the chief engineer behind both the 1 Series M Coupe and the new M2 – said he felt that there were some elements of the existing model he would have liked more time to iron out.

... “That tricky behaviour at the limit,” Isenberg said was the thing he didn’t want to replicate with the new M2.

... “On the other hand, this created a very special character,” he said.
Interesting read, see for yourself here.

What do you think?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 09:34 AM   #2
cc3
Major
622
Rep
1,333
Posts

Drives: 1M, GT4, M2 M140i G40
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon
Quote:
... Frank Isenberg – the chief engineer behind both the 1 Series M Coupe and the new M2 – said he felt that there were some elements of the existing model he would have liked more time to iron out.

... “That tricky behaviour at the limit,” Isenberg said was the thing he didn’t want to replicate with the new M2.

... “On the other hand, this created a very special character,” he said.
Interesting read, see for yourself here.

What do you think?
It is what makes the 1M a great car. Will be interesting to drive the M2 but looking like it will be predictable and easy to drive. Not to everyone's taste some like a bit of raw edge.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 09:37 AM   #3
1&done
Lieutenant Colonel
1&done's Avatar
United_States
247
Rep
1,585
Posts

Drives: 2011 VO 1M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Jupiter, FL

iTrader: (28)

Garage List
I am glad they didn't over think the 1M, an extra year of development would have given us piped in engine audio and a burnout button...no thanks...only thing I would've like is functional front fender vents...which apparently could've happened with more time.
__________________
///1M #643 of #740
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 09:47 AM   #4
CarJunkie
Colonel
CarJunkie's Avatar
United_States
2616
Rep
2,819
Posts

Drives: e82 1M, f87 M2cs
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tri-Cities, Washington

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2020 M2cs  [0.00]
2011 BMW 1M  [0.00]
A year of effort would have produced a diluted version of the machine everyone raves about and they would now be fetching 35k on the used market.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 09:56 AM   #5
IEDEI
Banned
United_States
1129
Rep
4,686
Posts

Drives: L'Orange
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW 1M  [8.40]
this is the best part of the 1M. it's engineered like an OLDER sports car....from a time when they didn't pour in money into r&d.

the 1M is not for people who want refinement or measure cars by Nurburgring lap times. It's for people who measure cars by enjoyment and enthusiasm. I think the majority of people just do not understand this simple point; particularly BMW 'fanboys'
Appreciate 2
      02-27-2016, 01:22 PM   #6
nachob
Brigadier General
United_States
2307
Rep
4,341
Posts

Drives: 2004 330i ZHP, 2022 Cayman T
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California

iTrader: (5)

Is there a no shit Sherlock category?

Perhaps. Duh category? I agree there should've been a little more work in the traction control which is too intrusive. But I agree that they would've also added comfort buttons and smokey burnout feature which would've compromised it. So i will take the twitchiness and imperfections that make it stand out. Which furthers my point that Pobst didn't understand the car. He said it was built by safety engineers which is BS. Tell that to the Stig that lost it in the track. Sorry Pobst doesn't get it. It's not a track rat and if you rate a gorilla by its ability to walk a tightrope he won't do very well. He will swing from the rope and have a blast instead!
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 01:32 PM   #7
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28918
Rep
13,048
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Frank Isenberg (key engineer behind the 1M + M2 project leader) also referred in the CAR interview (December 2015) to the 1M feistiness factor:
The 1M rode like it had ants in its pants, and you caught its oversteer more with punches than steering inputs. I ask [Frank Isenberg] if that feistiness was intentional, or a by-product of the M melting pot. «Byproduct,» confirms Isenberg. «We were still learning with the turbocharged engine. For the M2, the ride is much more compliant, and it’s not so tricky at the limit.» The big question, of course, is how M2 compares with M4, and which Isenberg prefers. «M2,» he answers without hesitation. «I like the smaller cars. The M2 might even be faster through a tight slalom.» Or around the Nürburgring. Officially, the M2 is good for a 7min 58sec, the M4 a 7min52sec. The 1M did 8min 15sec.
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
      02-27-2016, 01:41 PM   #8
cc3
Major
622
Rep
1,333
Posts

Drives: 1M, GT4, M2 M140i G40
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Frank Isenberg (key engineer behind the 1M + M2 project leader) also referred in the CAR interview (December 2015) to the 1M feistiness factor:
The 1M rode like it had ants in its pants, and you caught its oversteer more with punches than steering inputs. I ask [Frank Isenberg] if that feistiness was intentional, or a by-product of the M melting pot. «Byproduct,» confirms Isenberg. «We were still learning with the turbocharged engine. For the M2, the ride is much more compliant, and it’s not so tricky at the limit.» The big question, of course, is how M2 compares with M4, and which Isenberg prefers. «M2,» he answers without hesitation. «I like the smaller cars. The M2 might even be faster through a tight slalom.» Or around the Nürburgring. Officially, the M2 is good for a 7min 58sec, the M4 a 7min52sec. The 1M did 8min 15sec.
Have to say I care little for so called lap times. They are all done on different days etc. I just like a car that suits me. I hate all the nannies and cars built so that 99% of the population can drive them safely. That's why I love the 1M
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 04:17 PM   #9
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28918
Rep
13,048
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
"1M needed another year of development", says chief engineer
And you know what ? Luckily it did not get that year !

See for example here: http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bm...ther-m-models/
(BMW 1 Series M Coupe now worth more than other models that were nearly twice as expensive new - BMW's rare, high-performance 1M Coupe is actually worth more now than it was when new, an unprecedented feat)
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 05:22 PM   #10
eeghie
Kind of a big deal
300
Rep
1,674
Posts

Drives: an 1M not often enough
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: between Unlimited and Hard to Get

iTrader: (0)

- The source is mis-quoted; "All this to put together maybe could have used a year more development I think,” Isenberg said."

- The allowable drift angle of the mdm mode, is parameter in the E8X-E9X platform that can be altered in a minute (certainly less then a year) by coding.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 06:27 PM   #11
Dee Pee
Captain
Dee Pee's Avatar
176
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: '11 AW 1M, ‘24 718 GTS
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
A year of effort would have produced a diluted version of the machine everyone raves about and they would now be fetching 35k on the used market.
Those are called 135i M-Sport models buddy!
Not a bad car, but I'm glad I rolled the dice and got a 1M.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 07:39 PM   #12
Yeineken
Colonel
Yeineken's Avatar
United_States
1298
Rep
2,090
Posts

Drives: '11 135i M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
'11 135i  [8.20]
'16 Ford Hatchback  [0.00]
'15 X5  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Frank Isenberg (key engineer behind the 1M + M2 project leader) also referred in the CAR interview (December 2015) to the 1M feistiness factor:
The 1M rode like it had ants in its pants, and you caught its oversteer more with punches than steering inputs. I ask [Frank Isenberg] if that feistiness was intentional, or a by-product of the M melting pot. «Byproduct,» confirms Isenberg. «We were still learning with the turbocharged engine. For the M2, the ride is much more compliant, and it’s not so tricky at the limit.» The big question, of course, is how M2 compares with M4, and which Isenberg prefers. «M2,» he answers without hesitation. «I like the smaller cars. The M2 might even be faster through a tight slalom.» Or around the Nürburgring. Officially, the M2 is good for a 7min 58sec, the M4 a 7min52sec. The 1M did 8min 15sec.
Have to say I care little for so called lap times. They are all done on different days etc. I just like a car that suits me. I hate all the nannies and cars built so that 99% of the population can drive them safely. That's why I love the 1M
The M2 and M4 lap times are DCT as well which lowers the significance of the lap time against at Manual car. Also for only being 17secs behind with DCT v Manual proves something in my book.

Wonder how the Manual M2 v 1M reviews will favor.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 09:19 PM   #13
Shroom
Second Lieutenant
44
Rep
218
Posts

Drives: 1M, 2012 X5M, AMG E 63 S Wagon
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Is there a no shit Sherlock category?

"It's not a track rat and if you rate a gorilla by its ability to walk a tightrope he won't do very well. He will swing from the rope and have a blast instead!
:thumbs:

Perfect!
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 10:57 PM   #14
Iceman21
Private First Class
Iceman21's Avatar
27
Rep
171
Posts

Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pin

iTrader: (0)

I think they call it flawed genius.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2016, 11:45 PM   #15
-cj-
Captain
Canada
197
Rep
796
Posts

Drives: '20 X5MC | '20 Z4
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (3)

Don't forget that the newer cars use newer tyre design (pss vs ps2)
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2016, 05:26 AM   #16
FairfaxM3
Private First Class
45
Rep
189
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, 1M, F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

I love my 1M exactly as it is.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2016, 12:07 PM   #17
Win
Private First Class
Win's Avatar
United_States
42
Rep
110
Posts

Drives: AW 1M
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

iTrader: (0)

German engineers letting loose, not overthinking it = F'N AWESOME.
Appreciate 1
      02-28-2016, 01:24 PM   #18
vasmir
eh
vasmir's Avatar
129
Rep
331
Posts

Drives: 2011 E82 M, 2016 F25
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FairfaxM3 View Post
I love my 1M exactly as it is.
Concur.
Took the 1M on a backroads drive through southeastern VA this Sunday morning... reminded me of why I love this thing.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2016, 08:14 AM   #19
kikcaffine
Private
47
Rep
99
Posts

Drives: 1m
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post

But I agree that they would've also added comfort buttons and smokey burnout feature which would've compromised it. So i will take the twitchiness and imperfections that make it stand out.
Bingo, prime reason why I didnt buy an M2 last Thursday.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2016, 06:13 PM   #20
bdaddylo
Major
bdaddylo's Avatar
United_States
168
Rep
1,479
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
For those who have forgotten, M still stands for motorsport. IMO if you ask any M engineer's take on the 1M, they will tell you the same as Isenberg said which is they didn't finish it. M engineers don't want to build half ass cars and yes they use Nurburgring track times to gauge the quality of their work. The design intent was not to build a gorilla; however, this was the outcome due to the lack of funding by BMW. If they had more time, the 1M would have handled similar to the M2 with regards to traction and track manners.
__________________
_______________________

1991 E30 M3/Brilliantrot
2017 F80 M3/AW
Appreciate 0
      03-01-2016, 02:47 AM   #21
eeghie
Kind of a big deal
300
Rep
1,674
Posts

Drives: an 1M not often enough
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: between Unlimited and Hard to Get

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
... IMO if you ask any M engineer's take on the 1M, they will tell you the same as Isenberg said which is they didn't finish it. ...
Starting the 1M project, whilst knowing there would be an extra year for development, might have resulted in a notably different car. I'm not sure if I'd liked that car more.

I'd argue that the M engineers also feel they finished the 1M design perfectly in the available time and budget. It might have had better tires and bespoke dampers, but more importantly Isebergs statement is pure hypothetical: the extra development year would have meant that the 1M would have missed the E8X platform's LCI train; Then the 1M would have never existed in the first place! And for that i'm most exited they did not use that extra year.

Last edited by eeghie; 03-01-2016 at 03:01 AM..
Appreciate 0
      03-01-2016, 11:20 PM   #22
bdaddylo
Major
bdaddylo's Avatar
United_States
168
Rep
1,479
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by eeghie View Post
Starting the 1M project, whilst knowing there would be an extra year for development, might have resulted in a notably different car. I'm not sure if I'd liked that car more.

I'd argue that the M engineers also feel they finished the 1M design perfectly in the available time and budget. It might have had better tires and bespoke dampers, but more importantly Isebergs statement is pure hypothetical: the extra development year would have meant that the 1M would have missed the E8X platform's LCI train; Then the 1M would have never existed in the first place! And for that i'm most exited they did not use that extra year.
When the Chief Engineer of the project states that the design could have used another year of development, I'll interpret that as not being finished. We all know the story why they weren't able to finish which had to due with the lack of investment from BMW. Adding another 6 to 12 months to the project would not have caused any production issues. Leipzig was pumping out the E82 well into 2013. The 1M IMO did have bespoke spring and dampers (i.e., not the same as the M3). The engineers tried to tune the suspension, but obviously weren't able to sort everything out hence the traction shortfalls. It is what it is and I still love the car.
__________________
_______________________

1991 E30 M3/Brilliantrot
2017 F80 M3/AW
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST