Comparison: BMW 135i vs Subaru WRX STI

[IrvRobinson2]

I keep seeing this debate all over the web so I decided to make a little comparison. It's not much but you have something to add, go ahead

http://www.edbmw.com/blog/2007/09/10...ubaru-wrx-sti/





Price:
BMW 135i - around $33,000-$34,000
Subaru WRX STI - $33,495
Subaru Advantages:

• sport seats with 2-tone suede, very good supporting sport seats
• LSD
• Brembo Brakes with Super Sport ABS
• AWD
• 2008 model equipped with heated seats and navigation system

BMW 135i Advantages:

• same HP but a twin-turbo engine
• less weight 3274 lbs vs 3351 lbs for the Subaru STI
• M-sport suspension
• nicer body style
• free maintenance for 4yrs/50,000 miles

[atr_hugo]

Good points Irv!

Let's list disadvantages for both (only one per reply, please):

Disadvantage: Subaru, BIG HONKING WING :wink:

[GAL]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see these cars as being totally different. I see the 135i as more of a road car (road racing), while the STI is a rally car, (off road, dirt road etc.) They might be in the same price range,but to compare them, is not fair to either. Now I know certain magazines will compare them, but I see them as two separate types of cars, each having their distinct advantagements over the other, due to what they were built to do. I put the 135i in the same class as the 350z, and the G37, and others like it that are road cars. Just my opinion. To me that is like comparing a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, to a Corvette. Yes both have remarkable performance, but built for different purposes. The 135i is in a completely different class, than the STI.

[IvtecEM]

I like the subie STI, i think its a great car but it's a A$$Hole magnet, "EVERY BODY WANTS TO RACE U" and for the money your buying just performance.

The 135i has the power and much more, It looks good outside and i bet the interior on the bimmer wont be cheap lookin like on the STI. PLUS AS IM GETTING OLDER I KINDA WANNA UPGRADE TO SOMETHING LIKE BIMMER AFTER ALL MY OLD HIGH SCHOOL PARKING LOT LOOKS LIKE A STI & EVO DEALERSHIP, GET THE POINT............

[Victor.L3IchibanM3]

Originally Posted by IvtecEM

I like the subie STI, i think its a great car but it's a A$$Hole magnet, "EVERY BODY WANTS TO RACE U" and for the money your buying just performance.

The 135i has the power and much more, It looks good outside and i bet the interior on the bimmer wont be cheap lookin like on the STI. PLUS AS IM GETTING OLDER I KINDA WANNA UPGRADE TO SOMETHING LIKE BIMMER AFTER ALL MY OLD HIGH SCHOOL PARKING LOT LOOKS LIKE A STI & EVO DEALERSHIP, GET THE POINT............

yea good point.. I hate the ppl who drives damn ricers

[Robert]

Dont like the subbie's styling and interior. The interior is still significantly behind its Japanese counterparts. 135i's styling isn't as sexy as the new A5 or 335i but it's not as outlandish as the sti.

[Sixspeed J]

Having owned a Sti I can tell you first hand that there is really no comparison in the two besides price points. The Sti had several downfalls such as the interior, look at me wing, etc. But that is not what it is all about is it?? It has a purpose and comfort and amenities wasn't one of them.

For me I guess I have come to a place in my life where I want a well rounded car. I want something that is nice to look at, more comfortable, better resale value, a step up in luxury, and still hauls ass:biggrin:.

[damian]

I'm guessing the new STi will outperform the 135i at least a little bit. There is supposed to be a decent HP boost over the '07 version. 135i definitely has the edge in styling, paint, interior, etc.

[1ster]

I wouldn't say that the Subie has better brakes just because they're Brembos. We won't know until the tests come rolling in, but the 135i's brake set-up is 6 piston fixed calipers front, 4 piston fixed calipers rear. Don't be so quick to assume the Subie's are better.

Also, the biturbo in the 135i is a monster. Don't count on the Subie being faster in the quarter mile.

[damian]

Originally Posted by 1ster

Also, the biturbo in the 135i is a monster. Don't count on the Subie being faster in the quarter mile.

I don't know, I'm guessing it will be pretty tight. Previous year STi's did 0-60 in around 4.7 and the 1/4 in just at or above 13, and this one is allegedly lighter and has a boost in power.

What are the 335i's respective times, for comparison's sake?

[joelk]

i just can't get past the looks of the subaru.

..even if it's a second faster...

[ducati]

No one really knows what the 2008 STI will be. There is some possibility of "softening" of the WRX degrading the raw brutality of the STI.

We also, of course, have no idea what the 135 will be like in the real world--IMO it all rides on the suspenders and the effectiveness of the DSC+ "e diff." The rest we get in the 335.

That said, I can compare the 2007 STI to the 2007 BMW 335i.

STI Advantages:
1. AWD system with 3 LSD's and an electronically controlled center diff (yes it has 4 diffs) has more grip than any RWD car will. This tremendous grip can be put to use on the varying road surfaces of the street, making it very, very quick in the real world.
2. Suspension is very well-sorted for the road. It's stiff, but surprisingly comfortable.
3. Handling is quite neutral IF you drive it as an AWD car needs to be driven (which is to say, differently than a RWD car).
4. Brakes are VERY good, and track ready out of the box
5. Tires are very sticky, track ready out of the box but still very useable on the road.
6. Car has a very raw and purposeful feel to it, which makes it quite engaging to drive
7. Engaging power delivery. You have to chase it a bit, as it doesn't come on hard until the midrange. But it hits hard and hangs on. It feels very quick, and it's fun to hammer.
8. Flat-four motor sounds great, if you like the uneven backbeat of boxers.

STI Disadvantages:
1. Exterior design and "JDM tuned" look. You either like this or you don't, but suffice to say it does attract attention of both the wanted and unwanted variety. Not as much attention as my old Phoenix Yellow Type R Honda, but enough.
2. Interior design is very 90s Japanese. If you liked late-90's Hondas, this will make you feel at home.
3. Interior materials quality is durable but not touchy-feely. BMW does much better here.
4. Interior is mixmatch. Neat red electroluminescent gauge package with green center stack lighting. No lighting on all 4 window switches. Nice seats with crap headliner and cheesy visors.
5. Car is loud. Gearbox whine, diff whine, road noise, tire noise. For some this would be a serious negative.

335i Positives:
1. Spools much faster than the STI, power is all there just off idle.
2. RWD is seriously fun if you deactivate DSC. Tail-out cornering is easy to access.
3. The car requires more finesse than the STI. RWD with big power is like a dance--easy inputs here and there to maintain traction, while you rotate around like a ballet dancer. Drive it heavy-handed and you won't make much forward progress. STI will allow more heavy-handed shenanigans.
4. Steering is more linear and predictable--the STI with its DCCD in Auto can change midcorner, sometimes multiple times (manually setting DCCD changes this behavior, though)
5. Exterior, if you like BMWs, is great until you get to the rear. Even with the Pontiac rear, I don't think anyone will say the STI looks better
6. Interior shows much thought; from the soft orange/red overhead lighting, to the backlit switches, to the design. It's nice to be in. Some find it not as nice as VAG products, but I liked it.
7. Yes, I squeeze dashboards, and yes, BMWs is much nicer to squeeze.
8. 335 is MUCH quieter than the STI--you can enjoy that nice Logic 7 in serene surroundings.


335i Negatives:
1. Power delivery in one fat smooth push, seriously quick but not as much fun to access.
2. Accessing tail-out mode can be hairy without LSD. The car isn't always predictable, and this makes you dial back a bit more than you could on the street. 328i is more accessible, as it doesn't overwhelm the rears so much.
3. Brakes are not as powerful as the STI. Supposedly easy to fade on the track, unlike STI.
4. Car is too quiet. Not much engine or exhaust sound. Is this a performance car, or a luxury car? Where's the bark? N54 sounds a bit agricultural here, I think a noise booster or better intake/exhaust tuning by BMW would help.
5. The drive isn't as engaging as the STI. There is a lot to remove the raw road feel and experience that many enthusiasts find so addicitive; from sound deadening, to softer suspension, to more isolating and flexy bushings. Make no mistake: the 335 will haul. But it isn't constantly asking you, BEGGING you, to haul. It's a little.. Dare I say... Yes I will... Boring.

In short?
STI: Brutal, engaging, loud, full of character, all about the drive.
335: Stylish, comfortable, balancing sport with luxury.

Hopefully, IMO, the 135i will rectify the disadvantages, although I've hedged my bet with the STI. If the 135 shows up with a killer suspension (I mean SERIOUS not the 335 "sport package" stuff), killer brakes, and please dear God in Munich Above give us a LSD at some point... I'll buy it. The STI is ugly and has a craptastic interior. It's all about character and brutal speed. I'll take the more balanced BMW if we get a more focused version, more like the STI than the 335 (way more...).

[damian]

Originally Posted by ducati

The STI is ugly and has a craptastic interior. It's all about character and brutal speed. I'll take the more balanced BMW if we get a more focused version, more like the STI than the 335 (way more...).

Have you seen the latest STi WRC pics? It gives hope that the STi will end up looking decent.

[Maximus Decimus]

STi/EVO is a trick racer ALL the time, even when you don't want it to be. Having never driven the 135i can't speak to advantages or disadvantages but from other 3er experience, they're a bit more chameleonistic. Canyon carving, triple digit blazer when I want it to be, boulevard cruiser when I don't.

[damian]

Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus

STi/EVO is a trick racer ALL the time, even when you don't want it to be.

Indeed. The STi is almost impossible to drive "smoothly." Even when rev matching, a typical downshift would result in a "is something wrong with your transmission?" from passengers. Until I actually let them drive it to see for themselves, they wouldn't believe it wasn't transmission or driver error.

[ducati]

Originally Posted by damian

Have you seen the latest STi WRC pics? It gives hope that the STi will end up looking decent.

That eye of the beholder thing applies, of course, but I still think the BMWs will look "better than decent." The STI is what it is, which Maximus made a nice little synopsis to my treatise :redface:

The interior of the new '08 is really a lot better than the '07, I can say that for sure having sat in the '08 WRX before buying my '07 STI.

[ducati]

Originally Posted by damian

Indeed. The STi is almost impossible to drive "smoothly." Even when rev matching, a typical downshift would result in a "is something wrong with your transmission?" from passengers. Until I actually let them drive it to see for themselves, they wouldn't believe it wasn't transmission or driver error.

What year? I haven't driven a lot of STIs, but my '07 is able to be driven smoothly, and my friend's GC RS with a JDM 2.0 STI swap behaves similarly. I just haven't driven enough STIs, perhaps the older USDM's had this annoyance.

I would actually say the BMW is more annoying to drive smoothly--I hate HATE HATE that thing BMW puts on the hydraulic clutches that "saves a newbie from themselves." I'm sure someone more steeped in BMW will know what I'm talking about--everyone I know with a sporting BMW removes it.

Now, if you're talking gear noise... Yep. People ask if the STI is going to grenade during the drive to the shops.

[damian]

Originally Posted by ducati

That eye of the beholder thing applies, of course, but I still think the BMWs will look "better than decent."

Definitely, I agree that the BMW looks better. I just threw that out there because for some people, myself included, merely "not ugly" is enough to keep a car in the mix. The '08 WRX looks, in my opinion, like ass, so I was getting ready to give up on the STi altogether.

[damian]

Originally Posted by ducati

Now, if you're talking gear noise... Yep. People ask if the STI is going to grenade during the drive to the shops.

The only STi's i've driven have been '04 and '05, but yeah, i'm talking a combination of gear noise and stuttering during downshifting for deceleration, not acceleration. It sounds like a jet turbine getting ready for takeoff.

[ducati]

Originally Posted by damian

Definitely, I agree that the BMW looks better. I just threw that out there because for some people, myself included, merely "not ugly" is enough to keep a car in the mix. The '08 WRX looks, in my opinion, like ass, so I was getting ready to give up on the STi altogether.

I'll even drive ugly...

Obviously :redface:

A good point. I do think the '08 feels/looks much less like a 90s Japanese econobox. We should know more soon, with the Evo X materials hitting the streets a bit early.

Originally Posted by damian

The only STi's i've driven have been '04 and '05, but yeah, i'm talking a combination of gear noise and stuttering during downshifting for deceleration, not acceleration. It sounds like a jet turbine getting ready for takeoff.

Gear whine is definitely an issue. I don't have any stuttering during downshifting, as long as I rev match it's buttah smooth, but it's possible the '07s are different in this regard.

[grant]

Advantage BMW: 6-cylinder Direct Injection (decent power off-boost) and RWD

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by ducati

No one really knows what the 2008 STI will be. There is some possibility of "softening" of the WRX degrading the raw brutality of the STI.

We also, of course, have no idea what the 135 will be like in the real world--IMO it all rides on the suspenders and the effectiveness of the DSC+ "e diff." The rest we get in the 335.

That said, I can compare the 2007 STI to the 2007 BMW 335i.

STI Advantages:
1. AWD system with 3 LSD's and an electronically controlled center diff (yes it has 4 diffs) has more grip than any RWD car will. This tremendous grip can be put to use on the varying road surfaces of the street, making it very, very quick in the real world.
2. Suspension is very well-sorted for the road. It's stiff, but surprisingly comfortable.
3. Handling is quite neutral IF you drive it as an AWD car needs to be driven (which is to say, differently than a RWD car).
4. Brakes are VERY good, and track ready out of the box
5. Tires are very sticky, track ready out of the box but still very useable on the road.
6. Car has a very raw and purposeful feel to it, which makes it quite engaging to drive
7. Engaging power delivery. You have to chase it a bit, as it doesn't come on hard until the midrange. But it hits hard and hangs on. It feels very quick, and it's fun to hammer.
8. Flat-four motor sounds great, if you like the uneven backbeat of boxers.

STI Disadvantages:
1. Exterior design and "JDM tuned" look. You either like this or you don't, but suffice to say it does attract attention of both the wanted and unwanted variety. Not as much attention as my old Phoenix Yellow Type R Honda, but enough.
2. Interior design is very 90s Japanese. If you liked late-90's Hondas, this will make you feel at home.
3. Interior materials quality is durable but not touchy-feely. BMW does much better here.
4. Interior is mixmatch. Neat red electroluminescent gauge package with green center stack lighting. No lighting on all 4 window switches. Nice seats with crap headliner and cheesy visors.
5. Car is loud. Gearbox whine, diff whine, road noise, tire noise. For some this would be a serious negative.

335i Positives:
1. Spools much faster than the STI, power is all there just off idle.
2. RWD is seriously fun if you deactivate DSC. Tail-out cornering is easy to access.
3. The car requires more finesse than the STI. RWD with big power is like a dance--easy inputs here and there to maintain traction, while you rotate around like a ballet dancer. Drive it heavy-handed and you won't make much forward progress. STI will allow more heavy-handed shenanigans.
4. Steering is more linear and predictable--the STI with its DCCD in Auto can change midcorner, sometimes multiple times (manually setting DCCD changes this behavior, though)
5. Exterior, if you like BMWs, is great until you get to the rear. Even with the Pontiac rear, I don't think anyone will say the STI looks better
6. Interior shows much thought; from the soft orange/red overhead lighting, to the backlit switches, to the design. It's nice to be in. Some find it not as nice as VAG products, but I liked it.
7. Yes, I squeeze dashboards, and yes, BMWs is much nicer to squeeze.
8. 335 is MUCH quieter than the STI--you can enjoy that nice Logic 7 in serene surroundings.


335i Negatives:
1. Power delivery in one fat smooth push, seriously quick but not as much fun to access.
2. Accessing tail-out mode can be hairy without LSD. The car isn't always predictable, and this makes you dial back a bit more than you could on the street. 328i is more accessible, as it doesn't overwhelm the rears so much.
3. Brakes are not as powerful as the STI. Supposedly easy to fade on the track, unlike STI.
4. Car is too quiet. Not much engine or exhaust sound. Is this a performance car, or a luxury car? Where's the bark? N54 sounds a bit agricultural here, I think a noise booster or better intake/exhaust tuning by BMW would help.
5. The drive isn't as engaging as the STI. There is a lot to remove the raw road feel and experience that many enthusiasts find so addicitive; from sound deadening, to softer suspension, to more isolating and flexy bushings. Make no mistake: the 335 will haul. But it isn't constantly asking you, BEGGING you, to haul. It's a little.. Dare I say... Yes I will... Boring.

In short?
STI: Brutal, engaging, loud, full of character, all about the drive.
335: Stylish, comfortable, balancing sport with luxury.

Hopefully, IMO, the 135i will rectify the disadvantages, although I've hedged my bet with the STI. If the 135 shows up with a killer suspension (I mean SERIOUS not the 335 "sport package" stuff), killer brakes, and please dear God in Munich Above give us a LSD at some point... I'll buy it. The STI is ugly and has a craptastic interior. It's all about character and brutal speed. I'll take the more balanced BMW if we get a more focused version, more like the STI than the 335 (way more...).

I agree the feeling is totally different. Whenever I talk to a evo or sti driver they always make the same points. However I am reluctant to agree with the whole "track ready" point. While I am not saying the STI isn't track ready, I am saying so is the 335i and a bit moreso the 135i. The benefit of the 135i is that you get a package just as "track ready" as an STI with an awesome smooth ride, nice stereo and that solid BMW steering. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Look at the following nurburgring track times.

8:22 --- 147.749 km/h -- BMW M3 E46, 343 PS/1584 kg (sport auto 12/00)
8:22 --- 147.749 km/h -- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS/1445 kg (sport auto 10/98)
8:22 --- 147.749 km/h -- Mercedes-Benz C55 (sport auto07/2004)
8:22.38 147.617 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R32 GTR (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:23 --- 147.435 km/h -- Aston Martin DB7 GT, 442 PS/1833 kg (sport auto 07/03)
8:23 --- 147.435 km/h -- Porsche Boxster S, 280 PS/1426 kg (sport auto 04/06)
8:23 --- 147.435 km/h -- Porsche 996 Carrera 4, 300 PS/1466 kg (sport auto 01/02)
8:24 --- 147.143 km/h -- Mercedes SLK 55 AMG, 360PS/1566kg (sport auto 04/05),
8:24 --- 147.143 km/h -- Subaru Impreza WRX STi (sport auto 05/04)
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h -- Audi RS4, 375 PS/1675 kg (sport auto 10/00)
8:25* -- 146.851 km/h – 2007 BMW M5 Touring, 507 PS (*mfr.)
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h -- Corvette Callaway C12, 400 PS/1564 kg (sport auto 04/99)
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h – Jaguar XKR, 416 PS/1775 kg (sport auto 11/06)
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h – Maybach 57 S, 612 PS/2835 kg
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h -- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VI, 300 PS/1466 kg (sport auto 11/99)
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h -- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VII (sport auto 11/02)
8:25 --- 146.851 km/h – Porsche Cayman S, 295 PS/1412 kg (sport auto 11/06),
8:26 --- 146.561 km/h – BMW 335i Coupé, 306 PS/1610 kg (sport auto 10/06),
8:26 --- 146.561 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLK 32 AMG, 354 PS/1480 kg (sport auto 05/01)
8:26 --- 146.561 km/h -- Nissan 350Z, 280 PS/1526 kg (sport auto 10/03)
8:28 --- 145.984 km/h -- BMW E49 M5, 400PS/1833 kg (sport auto 03/99)
8:28 --- 145.984 km/h -- Nissan Skyline GTR, 277 PS
8:28 --- 145.984 km/h -- Porsche 993 Carrera 2, 285 PS/1452 kg (sport auto 01/98)
8:28 --- 145.984 km/h -- Porsche Carrera Cabrio (sport auto 04/97)

As you can see, the "track ready" STI is only 2 seconds faster on a 8 minute lap then the 335i coupe. The new 135i will be around 100lbs lighter then the 335i and with the six pitons caliper's up front as opposed to the 335i's two piston, I'll bet anything the 135i can do it at least 2 seconds faster.

A 135i is as track ready as anything. Imagine what it can do with an LSD and non runflats.