Comparison: BMW 135i vs Subaru WRX STI

[R32]

Originally Posted by adc

I think this applies to the STI as well: only a minority of them see track duty. Most owners seem to be overly concerned with extracting another 100BHP out of them for the so important street meets. :smile:

I think the 135i will be the most tracked BMW of the entire generation. Used to be the E36 M3, because they were relatively affordable even when new, and downright cheap used - I'm getting the vibe that many of these people can't wait to switch to the 135i.

track days are increasingly popular here and abroad: i am beginning to think that track capability is going to be more of a purchasing incentive than before.

vw earlier this year sponsored a free track day for existing R32 owners to introduce the MkV R32. although their main purpose was to get rolling shots of the new car, it was clear that they were hoping for blessings from the track-enthusiasts.

[adc]

Originally Posted by R32

track days are increasingly popular here and abroad: i am beginning to think that track capability is going to be more of a purchasing incentive than before.

vw earlier this year sponsored a free track day for existing R32 owners to introduce the MkV R32. although their main purpose was to get rolling shots of the new car, it was clear that they were hoping for blessings from the track-enthusiasts.

That's interesting, and encouraging.

In my area, the BMW club is so big, you have to be lucky to catch a slot at one of their driving events. Has gotten worse in the past years.

I have resorted to going out with other BMW chapters, Porsche chapters etc. Next I think I'll try Friday at the Track (FATT) at Summit Point and perhaps Trackmasters.

[R32]

Originally Posted by adc

In my area, the BMW club is so big, you have to be lucky to catch a slot at one of their driving events. Has gotten worse in the past years.

try these guys: they are very cool people, provide great events, and aren't trying to make a massive profit on the whole thing. they are present on vwvortex.com, and each of their events have had glowing reports. sure, they are vw guys, but they don't discriminate!

trackdaze.com

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by R32

track days are increasingly popular here and abroad: i am beginning to think that track capability is going to be more of a purchasing incentive than before.

vw earlier this year sponsored a free track day for existing R32 owners to introduce the MkV R32. although their main purpose was to get rolling shots of the new car, it was clear that they were hoping for blessings from the track-enthusiasts.

I curently have two E36 track cars M3 and 95 325is. My first thought with the 135i is what a great track car it will be once I put a LSD in it and with thoes massive six piston breaks. so trackibilety is definatly a major selling point for me.

I'm an instructor for this group www.SCDA1.com great group very casual and a lot of fun. if you check out the photo page you can see a pic of my old S52 powered 525i wagon being tracked at Lime Rock.

[toosteeley]

The (fingers crossed) trackabilety of the 135i is what appeals most to me.

Was tracking an S2K for years before I had to sell it and am dying to get back out there.

Do you guys really think it'll need an aftermarket LSD to handle 10 or so lapping days a season?

[adc]

Originally Posted by toosteeley

Do you guys really think it'll need an aftermarket LSD to handle 10 or so lapping days a season?

If you go to tight technical tracks and don't want to wait-wait-wait to exit corners, then most likely yes.

The 335i is already a rear wheel spinfest, I cannot imagine what the lighter and skinnier-tire'd 135i will do...

[Chibana]

I'm also looking for this car to be my occasional track day car, but I've been wondering something (never having taken my own car to the track before): how do you get your racing wheels and tires to the track in a coupe or sedan? I could see hauling them in a hatchback, but not in a 135i coupe. Do you just put the race wheels/tires on before leaving? Where I'm at, the two nearest tracks will be two hours away.

[R32]

Originally Posted by Chibana

how do you get your racing wheels and tires to the track in a coupe or sedan?

it depends. if you are running slicks, they are not street legal, and are a disaster in the rain. r-comps are street legal, and you'd make it home in the rain if you took it REAL easy.

if you are on autocross-type tires, i'd think nothing of driving two hours to the track with them on.

one thing to remember is if you drive to the track with your track tires on and you pick up a nail, no one will refund your track fees because you had a flat on the way.

an e46 can hold 4 tires/wheels if the rear seat folds down. it is tight, but doable. we'll just have to see what the trunk space is like in the 135, but it doesn't look too good.

they do make tiny trailers that just hold tires/stuff. four wheels/tires would be more weight than you should put in a car top carrier.

[toosteeley]

I had to pack my track wheels into my S2K once.

If they'll fit in a 2-seat convertible, they'll fit in a 2+2 coupe

Most of the time I just swapped wheels the night before and drove to and from the track with them.

[toosteeley]

Originally Posted by adc

If you go to tight technical tracks and don't want to wait-wait-wait to exit corners, then most likely yes.

Figured as much :redface:

[adc]

Originally Posted by R32

an e46 can hold 4 tires/wheels if the rear seat folds down. it is tight, but doable. we'll just have to see what the trunk space is like in the 135, but it doesn't look too good.

I've personally seen an E46 M3 Coupe at the track with 4 track wheels stashed vertically on the rear bench seat. I think the 135i is a tad wider, so maybe this will work too. If not, I think it should accomodate 1-2 wheels in the trunk and another 2-3 in the rear passenger area with the rear seat folded. Oh, and there's the front passenger seat too :smile:.

You'll get them tires to the track, don't worry. It's not a Miata.

[BMWeber]

I personally trailer every where now but in the past as long as your using a durabull dot approved track tire (not a hooser) I'd drive 2 hours with out a problem.

[amdmaxx]

2009 STi is out next month, better get ready BMW..

[MrRoboto]

dunno about the side profile. It may be fast but too fast and furious for me. These specs are for the 2.0 I believe. Just imagine the turbo lag. I would take the new EVO or 135i any day.

[R32]

Originally Posted by adc

I've personally seen an E46 M3 Coupe at the track with 4 track wheels stashed vertically on the rear bench seat.

cool- i haven't seen that...
prob want something like this to protect the interior!
http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=23309

[R32]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

no way the US version would get those seats... perhaps they can be sourced separately from japan, like you can get the harness seats and roll cage for a 911 gt3 from germany...

[krassanova]

Originally Posted by adc

Agreed.

I think this applies to the STI as well: only a minority of them see track duty. Most owners seem to be overly concerned with extracting another 100BHP out of them for the so important street meets. :smile:

I think the 135i will be the most tracked BMW of the entire generation. Used to be the E36 M3, because they were relatively affordable even when new, and downright cheap used - I'm getting the vibe that many of these people can't wait to switch to the 135i.

If - big if - it will deliver.

Yeah I know plenty of people that mod the hell out of their cars, and still don't know how to drive it (ie: they never get on a track or attend a driving school). I'm sure you are right when you say that many STi owners won't ever take their car to the track, but the difference is that there are going to be alot less STi's available than the 135. To sell more cars, you need a more one size fits all approach.

Sure there are alot more people tracking their cars these days, but they are still the vast minority of car owners. I'm a member of BMWCCA, and I go to the events...mostly everyone at these events has modded their cars (Suspension, chips, intakes, wheels, etc) BMW gives you the blank canvas, so to speak, and you can tune it yourself. It would really be a PITA for them to try and please everyone, plus it would delay the relase by another 10 years

[MrRoboto]

In Canada the current STI is 49grand with limited amenities. The 135i is expected to be ~5k less fully loaded. Seems like a no brainier to me.

[ducati]

NASA does HPDE's, too. A good group. One of my friends is a racer/instructor.

MrRoboto, turbo lag isn't so bad on modern engines. Certainly nothing like the old Saab turbo's, which I have some experience with. Many modern tricks help combat lag. On the Subaru 2.0L, a twin-scroll setup helps it boost more quickly. We don't get the twin scroll here, but we do get an extra .5L of displacement to help spool that turbo.

What I think you might be alluding to, though, is "boost threshold" ... or what many call "spool rpm" which is the rpm which the engine attains full boost. In that case, yes, it is MUCH higher up the RPM scale than the BMW.

BMW 335: full boost at ~1400 rpm
VW 2.0T: full boost at ~2100 rpm
Subaru 2.5L STI: full boost at ~3500 rpm

The one nice thing about a 300hp/300tq turbocharged engine is even though it might take until 3500 to spool, you still equal the GTI/GLI's 2.0T at 2500 rpm. So it's not like you're twiddling your thumbs

But yes, you'll have to downshift in that STI, it does not have the instant-on boost of the N54. Still, it's nothing like a Honda VTEC. Under 6 grand and it's not home...

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

In Canada the current STI is 49grand with limited amenities. The 135i is expected to be ~5k less fully loaded. Seems like a no brainier to me.

For you, maybe. Amenities aren't important to some. Regardless, Canadian pricing is always whack

[MrRoboto]

I guess by amenities I mean a decent stereo, doors that sound half decent when closed, dash material that is at lease as good as Mazda, etc. If you are paying more you shouldnt get less IMO.

As for Canadian prices. It is time something was dome about it, Given the strong Canadian $$ and the weak American $$ there is no need to have such a difference anymore. No wonder som many of us buy from the US.

[ducati]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I guess by amenities I mean a decent stereo, doors that sound half decent when closed, dash material that is at lease as good as Mazda, etc. If you are paying more you shouldnt get less IMO.

Sure--you've just explained why why the STI is attractive. Why pay more for the BMW and get less (the 135 will certainly cost more than the STI here in the US)? Because BMW doesn't give you the LSD, fadefree brakes, loudish intake and exhaust, etc etc. :wink:

It's all about priorities and how you stack 'em. I realize that my priorities are not yours, and yours are not mine. This is why there's so many interesting cars on the road today :thumbup:

And that's why my wife wouldn't be caught dead buying a STI, but will buy a 3er.

[MrRoboto]

Cant believe I just read STI and attractive in the same sentence ;-) Anyhow you certainly dont get more with the STI then you will with the 135i.

LSD - Have to see how the eLSD will perform or install aftermarket.
Brakes - From what we have read the brakes should be quite good, wait and see.
Loud exhaust and intake - are you kidding? Maybe you should add a boy racer wing and intake which vibrates at high speed as a plus.

Lets remember this is a 135i site not STI.

My wife wont even allow an STI in the driveway let alone buy one. Damn.