Jerk while shifting gears on 6MT

[1SerieStud]

I don't think you're reading between the lines here...there is NO issue. The only problem is people that can't drive. I drive my '11 135i with CDV daily, flawlessly.

Go buy your car and ignore all this speculation.

Originally Posted by Midgad

Anyone know if this is just a 135 issue?
Picking up 128 MT next week (ED)

[varsity]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

The only problem is people that can't drive. I drive my '11 135i with CDV daily, flawlessly.

The CDV delete makes it easier to drive mindlessly; the clutch in-out is a more linear leg motion.

I've put 35k on my CDV-equipped 135i, and it goes fine. I'd like to remove the CDV, but I'm not going to go through the trouble of jacking up the car or paying a shop to put it on a lift. And for the record, I've removed CDVs in three other BMWs.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by Midgad

Anyone know if this is just a 135 issue?
Picking up 128 MT next week (ED)

Most of the complaints seem to be from 135i/335i owners, so perhaps it is related to the much higher low speed torque.

Having had 5 M/T non turbo 2.8 & 3.0 liter BMWs, I've found them to all be among the easiest shifting manuals I've owned - going back to "3 on the tree" back in the day. And all have had the CDV.

The only clutch problem I've encountered is some chatter when turning out of my (uphill) driveway prior to warm-up and at ambient temps below 40o - easily cured by increasing engagement revs from about 1,200 to around 1,800.

Tom

[cukoodukoo]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Problem exists between the steering wheel and the driver seat learn how to properly drive your car. All that "remove the CDV" non-sense is useless...the only thing it will do for you is provide quicker engagement, otherwise the jerking will still be there if you can't shift properly.

Could you be a little clear about "learn to shift properly".Honestly I have driven manuals all my life [ranging from american,japanese and European cars].I definitely can work around it by playing the clutch [viz releasing it slowly] which I feel is WRONG while you are shifting from 1->2, and 2-> 3 gears.

I don't think I will go the delete the CDV way as its a lease.If i cant find a logical way around this I would just end this lease with a bad taste for BMW.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by cukoodukoo

Could you be a little clear about "learn to shift properly".Honestly I have driven manuals all my life [ranging from american,japanese and European cars].I definitely can work around it by playing the clutch [viz releasing it slowly] which I feel is WRONG while you are shifting from 1->2, and 2-> 3 gears.

I don't think I will go the delete the CDV way as its a lease.If i cant find a logical way around this I would just end this lease with a bad taste for BMW.

Man if I could give you a perfect description I would. As you probably know, driving a manual is one of those things that you can know all the theory in the world, but in practice it's all about feel. All you need to know is that it is 100% drivable without jerking, or without the need to burn any clutch.

I have been spoiled in the past with amazing gearboxes (I've owned 2 S2000's among many other cars), and I can tell you that the gearbox on my '11 135i is rather nice and easy to use. It's all about feel...as I previously stated, I've had people comment on how smoothly I drive my car even on flip flops lol

[N55_BBM]

1SerieStud, I have to half agree and half disagree with you. I agree when you say the biggest factor is the driver.

BUT, I've been driving manuals all my life (my 135i is the first manual BMW I've owned) and this car's clutch is indeed a little harder to predict when it comes to smooth disengagement. Which is not to say you can't avoid all the jerking. After a year of owning it, I drive it just fine and quite smoothly (apart from the once in a while occasional jerk), and have never received any complaints or any weird stares from any passengers recently. However, the effort I have to put in order to do this is a lot greater than with any other car I've owned. For instance, the other day I was stuck in 2 hour bumper to bumper traffic trying to get into Philly and my left foot was pretty much numb once I made it into the city, due to the fact that I had to release the clutch so slowly in order to feel when the damn clutch actually disengaged and avoid burning it. It's much harder to predict than in any other car I've owned, and I've surely never had my left foot go numb from driving before, lol... Not saying the CDV is to blame, could very well just be the torque and power since the next most powerful car I owned only had 170hp and not half the torque my 135 produces, dont know...

Last month my dad visited and drove my car for the first time. Now mind the guy's been driving for like 40 years and has owned 25+ cars, almost all manual. He loved my 135 but told me the one thing he wasn't fond of was how hard it is to control the clutch and drive smoothly.

Anyway, point being that I think it's part driver but also part car. If people in here can drive several other cars smoothly but it seems like this one is a lot harder (which is the general feeling I get from this post), it's probably not 100% the driver's fault...

With that being said, I think the 135 has a phenomenal gearbox, I really do love it. This clutch disengagement thing is just a minor thing I don't like about it and not enough to cause me stress

[1SerieStud]

Absolutely, this is a very subjective topic! I've been driving since I was 15 (currently 28) and have owned 10 cars ALL manual - I'm not fond of anything that shifts for me. A lot of times the old school guys think that because they have been driving for a century, they are the benchmark and epitome of what a driver should be. This is a very primitive and erroneous mentality, since a lot has changed from the cable-driven clutches to the hydraulic systems we have today, as well as clutch types, pressure plates, etc. A similar pattern can be observed with the old school mechanics that condemn the computerized systems that are integrated into cars today.

Granted, every car is different, and most times we need to adjust to the cars. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see myself putting any extra effort in order to get this car to drive smoothly, as all others I have owned.

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

1SerieStud, I have to half agree and half disagree with you. I agree when you say the biggest factor is the driver.

BUT, I've been driving manuals all my life (my 135i is the first manual BMW I've owned) and this car's clutch is indeed a little harder to predict when it comes to smooth disengagement. Which is not to say you can't avoid all the jerking. After a year of owning it, I drive it just fine and quite smoothly (apart from the once in a while occasional jerk), and have never received any complaints or any weird stares from any passengers recently. However, the effort I have to put in order to do this is a lot greater than with any other car I've owned. For instance, the other day I was stuck in 2 hour bumper to bumper traffic trying to get into Philly and my left foot was pretty much numb once I made it into the city, due to the fact that I had to release the clutch so slowly in order to feel when the damn clutch actually disengaged and avoid burning it. It's much harder to predict than in any other car I've owned, and I've surely never had my left foot go numb from driving before, lol... Not saying the CDV is to blame, could very well just be the torque and power since the next most powerful car I owned only had 170hp and not half the torque my 135 produces, dont know...

Last month my dad visited and drove my car for the first time. Now mind the guy's been driving for like 40 years and has owned 25 cars, almost all manual. He loved my 135 but told me the one thing he wasn't fond of was how hard it is to control the clutch and drive smoothly.

Anyway, point being that I think it's part driver but also part car. If people in here can drive several other cars smoothly but it seems like this one is a lot harder (which is the general feeling I get from this post), it's probably not 100% the driver's fault...

With that being said, I think the 135 has a phenomenal gearbox, I really do love it. This clutch disengagement thing is just a minor thing I don't like about it and not enough to cause me stress

[coda72]

This topic along with other similar ones I've read make me very curious about the manual transmission in a BMW. I guess I'll find out in about a month when I get my 128i what the fuss is all about. I've also been driving manuals for almost 20 years, and I've had everything from the smoothest clutch on my Honda to the not so smooth clutch on my Ford, but I've never had a real problem shifting in any of them.

[1SerieStud]

Based on this, I'm predicting you'll be more than pleased. I love my MT BMW

Originally Posted by coda72

This topic along with other similar ones I've read make me very curious about the manual transmission in a BMW. I guess I'll find out in about a month when I get my 128i what the fuss is all about. I've also been driving manuals for almost 20 years, and I've had everything from the smoothest clutch on my Honda to the not so smooth clutch on my Ford, but I've never had a real problem shifting in any of them.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by cukoodukoo

Could you be a little clear about "learn to shift properly".Honestly I have driven manuals all my life [ranging from american,japanese and European cars].I definitely can work around it by playing the clutch [viz releasing it slowly] which I feel is WRONG while you are shifting from 1->2, and 2-> 3 gears.

I don't think I will go the delete the CDV way as its a lease.If i cant find a logical way around this I would just end this lease with a bad taste for BMW.

I disagree cause I feel it is wrong to not "play"/modulate the clutch, especially during take off, 1 to 2, and even 2 to 3 shift. How much to modulate and finesse the clutch depends on the rate of acceleration you want.
When driving for fastest 0-60 or 1/4 mile, yeah, you're not going to play and finesse the clutch so much, as you want the fastest shift.

On the other hand, when driving normally day to day, you're not going to engage and disengage the clutch like a switch. You take off from 1st and you modulate the clutch to get a smooth take off with lighter throttle than you would use during a hard run. That then requires a different clutch release modulation, you release the clutch slower and give progressive throttle to get the car moving smoothly. On the 1-2 shift, you modulate the clutch a bit less as your car has momentum, and so on as you go 2-3, 3-4, etc...You still need to control the clutch engagement respective to your RPM and vehicle speed. If you just stab the clutch pedal in, shift, and quickly release the clutch pedal, then you may get a jerky shift.

Trying to explain the finer points of operating a MT is difficult because it really is a matter of feel like 1stud has mentioned. Many drivers know the macro operation of how to use a manual trans. But to be smooth one has to have a feel for the micro operation of a MT automobile.
BMW manuals a very nice, but I find they are a bit quirky and require more finesse from the driver. Is that good or bad?
Well, for me, I think BMW could do better. But then quirky can be endearing and special for a brand.
I'd rather it work more like a Honda/Acura MT, more precise, mechanically slick, and more intuitive for fast and smooth shifts.

[D[128i]T]

im just curious, at what rpm ranges do you "jerky" vs "smooth" drivers shift at in the lower gears??

[Midgad]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Most of the complaints seem to be from 135i/335i owners, so perhaps it is related to the much higher low speed torque.

Having had 5 M/T non turbo 2.8 & 3.0 liter BMWs, I've found them to all be among the easiest shifting manuals I've owned - going back to "3 on the tree" back in the day. And all have had the CDV.

The only clutch problem I've encountered is some chatter when turning out of my (uphill) driveway prior to warm-up and at ambient temps below 40o - easily cured by increasing engagement revs from about 1,200 to around 1,800.

Tom

Your 100% right!
Love the 128 gearbox!
No problems as discussed in this thread...
My advice, learn how to drive a MT!

[jameselee]

I tend to agree with N55_BBM; it's just that more effort is required to shift smoothly. I don't think this is a problem per se, but I feel it's less than ideal when doing high-RPM shifts. Indeed, as someone said, it's not an on/off switch, which is fine, but I'd rather not have to be quite so careful when I want to really get on it. I end up stressing about the shift when I want to enjoy going fast.

I too wonder if it's something about having to get acquainted with a car that has so much torque. I drove an '02 and an '05 S2000 (3 years each) and most recently, an Acura TSX (manual), so I'm certainly new to all this (lovely) torque.

(I'm on the fence about removing the CDV. I'd really like to drive one without it to see the difference. I guess that means I should look into upcoming meets in my area...)

I know people have posted links (thanks) to the CDV delete procedure, but can someone just answer these two questions: 1. Is it a reversible change? That is, can one easily "undelete" the CDV for lease return? 2. Will a dealer do the CDV delete? (Maybe that's a dumb question...)

For me the bottom line is, this is a *very* nice manual transmission, and the bit of extra effort required certainly doesn't in any way detract from the car. I don't think any prospective buyers should be worried about this.

[FactorX81]

I have a hard time being smooth in this car. I find that the 1-2 shift is the hardest for me. You cant rush it into second(synchros take a while) so you have to be slow with re-engaging the clutch and gas. I find that I almost always leave my foot on the gas a little when I do it. Not sure if thats hurting the clutch though. Its the only way I can be smooth.

[TX78666]

It *sounds* like both sides might be right. It seems as though the restricted flow from the valve will allow the driver to modulate the clutch, to a degree. Try to shift too fast, and the valve "modulates" the clutch, perhaps not as smoothly as an experienced driver would.

I'm sure everyone on the road will be excited to see me experimenting with this on the way home today.