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      11-24-2010, 04:34 AM   #89
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M1 with 450 HP, M3 GTS, M3 GTS brakes and Akrapovic exhaust system
An M1 CSL with 450 HP would really be nice. Would be the closest thing to the M3 CSL, and faster than both M3 CSL and M3 GTS. Would also love an M1 CSL-R that would eat the 911 GT2 RS!

Well, but all this shows that M1 and Cayman have more potential than their bigger brothers M3 and 911.


To Scott: What car is on your avatar ? BMW 8 Series Coupé ?
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      11-24-2010, 05:06 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
To Scott: What car is on your avatar ? BMW 8 Series Coupé ?
It's a design proposal or PS for the F32 3-Series coupe.


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      11-24-2010, 05:16 AM   #91
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Scott has said previously that the N55 will be the basis for the next M3 and would have been used in the 1M but they didnt have enough time to get around the issue of the valvetronic system so had to use the N54 in the 1M.

aajami is correct in that South has suggested upgrades from 3.0 to 3.5l and tri-turbo?
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      11-24-2010, 05:22 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
aajami is correct in that South has suggested upgrades from 3.0 to 3.5l and tri-turbo?
Yep, they're looking into this. Here's the post I made some time ago: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443909


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      11-24-2010, 06:20 AM   #93
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I think what we have here is either a red-herring of a document or a typo where it should be reading 232KW and not the 332KW it states. Also I doubt that this figure is refering to the F32 M3 engine/output, for a start the engine wouldn't carry the same coding and even if it did I highly doubt the output is being found from solely a software upgrade to the ECU, BMW may well have a sizable cushion built into the 1M's engine regarding how far it can be taken on it's internals but an extra 110hp is probably more or less the limit and most future E30 M3 customer will want to boost it's potential 450hp even further which couldn't happen if they were identical.

The two engines may well share common ground but I am almost certain that there is a sizable difference to class them as completely difference and at least far enough apart to not carry the same engine code.
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      11-24-2010, 08:17 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I think what we have here is either a red-herring of a document or a typo where it should be reading 232KW and not the 332KW it states...
I think this document is real. My source got it by accident. He is a third party person - who does not work for BMW AG. This is simply a pc listing of the available engine software for "some" BMW's. Whether or not they make it into production will be decided by the BMW board.

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      11-24-2010, 08:40 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew777 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by e92_m3 View Post
^^^THIS!^^^

340 hp is an ideal number IMHO.
340 is only ideal if I want to save money. Just slap a tune on a 135i and you'll already make that or more so I'm not buying a 1M if it doesn't make at least 360-370 or is highly tuneable.
I think the 1M will be able to be tuned. BMW won't produce a 1 Series that's an M3 beater, but I bet a few tuners are chomping at the bit to get a hold of the 1M.

Call me old-fashioned but I have a feeling the 1M out of the box will have plenty of M Power. The driving enjoyment you get from the M will be much more than a tuned 135, unless acceleration is the only measure. Throw some turns into the equation (which is why I buy BMWs and sell a few too) and I guarantee you'll use the brakes less and accelerator more with the 1M compared to a 135.

340hp will be plenty. BMW M breed the strongest horses in the world.
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      11-24-2010, 08:55 AM   #96
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This is like a German soap opera!
As the Wheel Turns....
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      11-24-2010, 10:08 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david06M3 View Post
340hp will be plenty. BMW M breed the strongest horses in the world.
I wouldn't completely agree with that opinion.

http://www.**************.com/my-car...tml#post490339

Audi TT-RS
Quoted 335hp = Actual 374hp. Those horses seem pretty strong if you ask me.
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      11-24-2010, 10:19 AM   #98
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From Scott26's twin brother, Scott27 on GCF:

Quote:
The engine in the 1M has such potential (referencing the 451hp number) but it will not come with the 1M due to the close proximity of the BMW M3. BMW will not let the 1M overstate the M3 , in the early project days this was the stipulation that 1M should not surpass the M3 to make the M3 irrevelant.
So, this thing will indeed have the potential to push out some great numbers which leads me to believe the N54 is getting updated internals and bigger snails.

Last edited by TunedM2C; 11-24-2010 at 11:00 AM..
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      11-24-2010, 10:57 AM   #99
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Why do some of you think that 451HP is "too much" for this car? That is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard on this forum. Just because some of us don't want a weak car doesn't mean we don't appreciate proper suspension and weight balance......


Sorry, but 332HP for a $50,000 (base price?) vehicle that weighs 3300+lbs, even the 1M, is WEAK!

Don't let BMW think that we don't want more than 300whp in a 1series.........


Do you guys even track your cars? Ever been in a C6 Z06? (you can pick one up for $40,000, consistantly dyno 450WHP and up)

Also, for new cars, you can get a Boss 302 Mustang for around that much, and I guarantee you it will be as fast or faster than the 1M on a track if 1M only has 332 rated horsepower.


I bought my 135i knowing that it was weak from the factory, with hopes that a tune and meth will get me closer to what I want. So far so good. =)

And yes, the Mustang has a nice interior and modern amenities. (including a powerful sound system)

Last edited by SlicktopTTZ; 11-24-2010 at 11:07 AM..
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      11-24-2010, 11:23 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ View Post
Why do some of you think that 451HP is "too much" for this car? That is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard on this forum. Just because some of us don't want a weak car doesn't mean we don't appreciate proper suspension and weight balance......


Sorry, but 332HP for a $50,000 (base price?) vehicle that weighs 3300+lbs, even the 1M, is WEAK!

Don't let BMW think that we don't want more than 300whp in a 1series.........


Do you guys even track your cars? Ever been in a C6 Z06? (you can pick one up for $40,000, consistantly dyno 450WHP and up)

Also, for new cars, you can get a Boss 302 Mustang for around that much, and I guarantee you it will be as fast or faster than the 1M on a track if 1M only has 332 rated horsepower.


I bought my 135i knowing that it was weak from the factory, with hopes that a tune and meth will get me closer to what I want. So far so good. =)

And yes, the Mustang has a nice interior and modern amenities. (including a powerful sound system)
Thank you.
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      11-24-2010, 12:11 PM   #101
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I dont think its that people think that the 1M cant have that power.....It's more about REALISTIC HP numbers.

You cant just give the 1M 400+HP and expect it to not affect the other cars in the lineup. You have to look at it from the business side of it (BMW's stand point) and not you the consumer. because at the end of the day, if it does not make sense to BMW then its not going to fly.
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      11-24-2010, 12:33 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2Nalgas View Post
I dont think its that people think that the 1M cant have that power.....It's more about REALISTIC HP numbers.

You cant just give the 1M 400+HP and expect it to not affect the other cars in the lineup. You have to look at it from the business side of it (BMW's stand point) and not you the consumer. because at the end of the day, if it does not make sense to BMW then its not going to fly.
Why can't the new M3 have 550HP?


Maybe BMW knows that people will buy weak cars because of the "excellent chassis dynamics" so they simply reflash a N54 instead of modifying the head and changing the turbos out to something besides ancient TD03s for the 1M......
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      11-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #103
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Shit the M3 can have 600hp for all i care (THAT WOULD BE SICKKK!! and super pricey as well) lol

I really do wish that the 1M comes in a nice powerful punch but unless BMW already has plans to shuffle around the power levels of the models above the 1 series i dont think its gonna happen.


On the flip side, BMW can say f*ck it and really just dish out an awesome M3 eater in this platform and let folks go nuts over it.

It's like lottery, you never know. lol
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      11-24-2010, 01:05 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2Nalgas View Post

On the flip side, BMW can say f*ck it and really just dish out an awesome M3 eater in this platform and let folks go nuts over it.

It's like lottery, you never know. lol
The lottery NEVER loses... BMW isnt gonna take a loss for us to win the "lottery"
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      11-24-2010, 01:15 PM   #105
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^^ just wishful thinking thats all.
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      11-24-2010, 02:25 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by formula M View Post
.. what most people don't understand is that HP is a static figure, and is almost meaningless as a stand-alone fact., where-as torque is more important and is what give a car acceleration. Yet, you make absolutely no mention of the 1M's torque (370ft-lbs +).
That's one of the figures that keeps me wondering about all of the 1M vs M3 comments. Yeah, the M3 has an extra 75 hp or so, but the 1M should have about 75 ft-lbs more torque pushing approx. 200 FEWER lbs, so... can we realistically compare the 2? Won't these 2 cars drive very differently?
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      11-24-2010, 02:38 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
I really think people should READ MORE and complain less.

First off, people are quoting Scott from another web site and fail to realize he responded in this thread, (2 pages ago), that the 451 figure is indeed real & only illustrates potential... as the 1M cannot be tuned to that height, because M3 owner's are to be respected..!


Secondly, Slicktop... what does HP do for you?

Yes I have owned a Z06.. what most people don't understand is that HP is a static figure, and is almost meaningless as a stand-alone fact., where-as torque is more important and is what give a car acceleration. Yet, you make absolutely no mention of the 1M's torque (370ft-lbs +).

The 1M with about 340hp~360hp is fine. It's not designed to be a dragster, uno? So having stupid amounts of horsepower (when the focus & design is finesse), is being ignorant, or just plain myopic. Now, if your focus is strictly the circuit (racing), then you'll want to exploit the N54 for everything she's got, or you have worked the suspension to better apply those extra horses, then... yeah.


As it stand though, the 1M is shaping up to be one of the best M cars of all time. It is just a shame to see people complaining about a static figure, without getting the whole story.



Really? I think you need to read up. Torque is a static figure. HP needs time in order to exist. (it is based on RPM)

370ft-lbs doesn't mean anything. The 1M car could have only 70ft-lbs and still make 340HP if it revved high-enough. All you would need to do is change the gearing to match the acceleration of the 370ft-lb version.

M3 owners need to be respected? What about 1M owners?

451HP would make the 1M a dragster? Maybe a slow ass one. I think you need to revisit the drag strip.

So 451HP is "stupid amounts of horsepower"? Maybe you just like slow cars.....

"Now, if your focus is strictly the circuit (racing), then you'll want to exploit the N54 for everything she's got, or you have worked the suspension to better apply those extra horses, then... yeah."

Uhhhh, isn't the point of the 1M to be a Motorsport 1 series, that would be exploiting the N54 and using that suspension and chassis tuning to apply those extra horses?
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      11-24-2010, 02:41 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drillslinger View Post
That's one of the figures that keeps me wondering about all of the 1M vs M3 comments. Yeah, the M3 has an extra 75 hp or so, but the 1M should have about 75 ft-lbs more torque pushing approx. 200 FEWER lbs, so... can we realistically compare the 2? Won't these 2 cars drive very differently?
Yes, a 4.0L V8 that revs to 8500RPM will drive much different than a 3.0L TT I6 that revs to 7000RPM.
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      11-24-2010, 04:26 PM   #109
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I agree with formula M...
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      11-24-2010, 09:42 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2Nalgas View Post
Shit the M3 can have 600hp for all i care (THAT WOULD BE SICKKK!! and super pricey as well) lol

I really do wish that the 1M comes in a nice powerful punch but unless BMW already has plans to shuffle around the power levels of the models above the 1 series i dont think its gonna happen.


On the flip side, BMW can say f*ck it and really just dish out an awesome M3 eater in this platform and let folks go nuts over it.

It's like lottery, you never know. lol
I know what you mean, it would be nice if they built it out of passion and determination instead of trying to fit it into some kind of a predefined performance slot so it won't affect sales of other cars in the lineup. The best cars out there are all built with passionate people not strapped with marketing limitations.

I see the point some people are trying to make about it having a better chassis and handling characteristics... but dismissing horsepower as not being part of the equation of a real performance car is a pretty weak stance to take. Power is and always will be synonymous with performance.

I mean really, what people are upset about is the compromises the project keeps suffering to try and essentially dumb it down for the market. They ditched the M1 gold standard name for 1M, then they ditch trying to use a naturally aspirated engine for a twin turbo setup.... then they dumb the horsepower all the way down from the high 300's to a measly 30hp over the 135i.

I don't know, it is hard not to get discouraged. I am trying to keep the faith, I sincerely hope the car comes out and is the killer everybody things it is going to be despite the clear effort to scale it back.
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