DCT transmission overheat?

[sometorque]

Just to note as well, the dealer isn't quite sure if the clutch packs are covered. The CPO warranty explicity states manual clutches are not covered, but makes no mention of automatic gearbox parts not being covered.

My SA mentioned in a theoretical situation in which it's in fact the clutch packs, they will probably cover any repairs due to the transmission leak they discovered a few months back and the effect this may have had on the clutch packs and/or transmission. He was going to look into this for me tomorrow and confirm.

[dtla1]

The language most likely has not been updated to include an exclusion for DCT transmissions, although the m3 has had one for a while, as well as SMG labeled boxes before that, so I now find it odd that there would be no mention of it....

From the SoCal BMW website, this is what is not covered and includes "Manual and SMG Transmission Clutch Assemblies".
Or here is the one from the BMWUSA website: http://cache.bmwusa.com/Pdf_16a4e27f...f-adbdaad31bd1

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by dtla1

The language most likely has not been updated to include an exclusion for DCT transmissions, although the m3 has had one for a while, as well as SMG labeled boxes before that, so I now find it odd that there would be no mention of it....

From the SoCal BMW website, this is what is not covered and includes "Manual and SMG Transmission Clutch Assemblies".
Or here is the one from the BMWUSA website: http://cache.bmwusa.com/Pdf_16a4e27f...f-adbdaad31bd1

Same thing I was wondering. I asked my SA about this, and he mentioned that it might be covered given that a computer is controlling the DCT and not an actual human, thus greatly reducing the potential for human error. He did readily admit he was not sure, though. He did also mention I had the DCT pan leak a few months back documented, which would help a good bit in my case. While I doubt it's the clutch packs, I do feel a bit at ease on this

To update, I spoke with the shop foreman at the local dealership this morning. He was almost certain it was not the clutch packs given the sporadic nature of the issue and that failing/slipping clutch packs would set off their own more specific code. He was leaning towards one or both of the clutch pack sensors or a software issue causing it. They pulled the recent faults off my car and are sending it to BMW to explore in more detail.

We also spoke a bit about his experiences with the DCT trannies and he has not seen a single one fail thus far, although did mention the DCT pans and mechatronic sleeves are prone to leaking. Looking around online, I've found a few of the M3 guys have had my exact issue (same gearbox, different software) and all but one were resolved with a software update. They've sent the data to BMW with a very detailed write up of the issue, and we're awaiting an update from them.

[dtla1]

Very good to hear. I've gotten codes that say something along the lines of "solenoid ___ stuck open" and thought it might have to do with the DCT but I haven't necesarily felt any difference, or seen a light come on. I asked my SA about it and he said it was a "ghost code". I'm wondering if the more and more we use and the more time goes by the more issues we may see arise.

Here is the thread that got me nowhere... http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083716

[Gangplank]

Solenoids sound like an issue with the mechatronics unit. On the E60 this caused various issues with odd shifting (coasting jolt) guys would replace the solenoid and seals themselves and report good results. The dealers would replace the entire transmission instead.

[dtla1]

The only weird thing I've gotten is for the transmission to very quickly downshift from say 4th to 2nd. When next to a wall I can hear the transmission quickly downshifting, it sounds like it is relieving itself quite frankly, I'll try to get a video. It only happens when cold from what i can tell but then again, I only ever drive my car in auto when cold, once it gets to temp I switch over to manual mode.

[sometorque]

Quick update - Light came up twice late yesterday evening. Ambient temperature was about 60 degrees and the oil temps hadn't even fully warmed up. Had been driving maybe 10 minutes when it happened.

Drove it the day before about 120 miles round trip in the middle of the day in warmer temps and no issue. This car is possessed by the ghost of BMW phantom lights.

[Gangplank]

Any codes?

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Any codes?

Just a generic trans too warm code. Since that initial post, it's come on 3 times, including today for a split second. Immediately after the light turned on, I had an empty stretch of backroad, and put it through its paces. Of course, the light didn't turn back on. No hint of anything off.

To note, it's never stayed on for more than a second.

Haven't gotten it back to the dealer since late last year. It'll be going back this weekend and I'll be making it very clear that a solution needs to be found. Being told "go easy on it" on a car that spends 95% of its time cruising on the highway at 60-70mph and routinely goes days without so much as seeing boost is an unacceptable solution.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sometorque

Just a generic trans too warm code. Since that initial post, it's come on 3 times, including today for a split second. Immediately after the light turned on, I had an empty stretch of backroad, and put it through its paces. Of course, the light didn't turn back on. No hint of anything off.

To note, it's never stayed on for more than a second.

Haven't gotten it back to the dealer since late last year. It'll be going back this weekend and I'll be making it very clear that a solution needs to be found. Being told "go easy on it" on a car that spends 95% of its time cruising on the highway at 60-70mph and routinely goes days without so much as seeing boost is an unacceptable solution.

Telling me to "go easy on it" would make me do just the opposite to push the problem so that it had to be dealt with.

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Telling me to "go easy on it" would make me do just the opposite to push the problem so that it had to be dealt with.

Basically what I've started doing, but the issue is not something that comes up with any logic or pattern

One day, I'll drive the sh*t out of it and no issues (admittedly, these days are few and far between). Next day, I'll start the car up and before the oil temperature is even fully warmed up, it'll start flashing the trans too warm light.

Dealership called me today and is getting BMW NA involved. I got them to admit that there's something amiss here and it's not simply an issue of "driver error". Dealership is pulling data from the car this weekend and sending it to BMW NA to go over and see what's going on. 4 months to go before the warranty is up, so I'm hoping for a solution before then.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sometorque

Basically what I've started doing, but the issue is not something that comes up with any logic or pattern

One day, I'll drive the sh*t out of it and no issues (admittedly, these days are few and far between). Next day, I'll start the car up and before the oil temperature is even fully warmed up, it'll start flashing the trans too warm light.

Dealership called me today and is getting BMW NA involved. I got them to admit that there's something amiss here and it's not simply an issue of "driver error". Dealership is pulling data from the car this weekend and sending it to BMW NA to go over and see what's going on. 4 months to go before the warranty is up, so I'm hoping for a solution before then.

Let us know what happens and good luck!

[sometorque]

Spoke with my SA and shop foreman today. BMW NA got involved and pulled data from the car. The previous owner of the car drove it hard (they were able to see the number of hard launches, moments of traction loss for extended periods of time (I.E burnouts) , how many times the car has hit the rev limiter, etc..

They are claiming that the issue MAY be to how hard the car was driven and will not be doing anything to fix it since technically, the transmission hasn't failed yet. In fact, they have told me that the data they pulled from the car may work against me for future warranty claims. Aside from the downpipe left installed by the previous owner, the car is stock.

Needless to say, I'm quite frustrated with the issue at this point. My SA and the shop foreman have both stated "these cars are built to be driven hard", but then blame the issue on hard driving. Admittedly, they did tell me the engineer BMW sent over couldn't find anything indicative of the transmission failing and simply said "it's doing it's job by going into limp mode". Short of dropping the box and opening it, there's no real way to know if it's failing or not.

Not sure what to do at this point. Car passed a pre-purchase inspection with flying colors and was a CPO car to boot. Given that BMW NA got involved and told me to kick rocks, I don't see what my next option is aside from either rolling the dice on the transmission going out or unloading the car and moving on. Thoughts?

[dtla1]

Contact BMW Corporate. I would also say to read the CPO warranty provisions closely. If the previous owner did something wierd and now it is acting up while BMW certified it, I don't think that is a good reason to say go pound sand. It's not your fault. In fact, it may be BMW's fault. Maybe they need to do a more thorough Pre-Purchase/ Certification inspection and find the Hard Launches and Rev-Limiter hits BEFORE they certify the car.

Just my 2 cents.

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Contact BMW Corporate. I would also say to read the CPO warranty provisions closely. If the previous owner did something wierd and now it is acting up while BMW certified it, I don't think that is a good reason to say go pound sand. It's not your fault. In fact, it may be BMW's fault. Maybe they need to do a more thorough Pre-Purchase/ Certification inspection and find the Hard Launches and Rev-Limiter hits BEFORE they certify the car.

Just my 2 cents.

My apologies for not being clear on this. The car was a CPO car when sold to the second owner, who presumably beat it up. I am the third owner of the car. Car still had a year and change of CPO warranty when I purchased it. Fun fact, BMW cars certified prior to 1/1/2014 have the CPO warranty follow the car around, regardless of ownership changes.

For this reason, I suspect BMW is probably going to hold the line on this and use the data that the car was driven hard against me. While the previous owner's driving habits aren't conclusively the cause of this issue, I'd suspect they'll leverage it and not budge on replacing the tranny should it be in fact failing.

I did my due diligence before purchasing this specific car with the PPI and a more thorough than usual test drive, and looks like i still got the short end of the stick

[sometorque]

Got a sample of the fluid which I'll be sending to Blackstone for analysis. I'm hearing all kinds of theories as to if the dct box is is failing or not and this would be a relatively conclusive way to know where I stand.

Will update in a few days.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sometorque

My apologies for not being clear on this. The car was a CPO car when sold to the second owner, who presumably beat it up. I am the third owner of the car. Car still had a year and change of CPO warranty when I purchased it. Fun fact, BMW cars certified prior to 1/1/2014 have the CPO warranty follow the car around, regardless of ownership changes.

For this reason, I suspect BMW is probably going to hold the line on this and use the data that the car was driven hard against me. While the previous owner's driving habits aren't conclusively the cause of this issue, I'd suspect they'll leverage it and not budge on replacing the tranny should it be in fact failing.

I did my due diligence before purchasing this specific car with the PPI and a more thorough than usual test drive, and looks like i still got the short end of the stick

That's not fair to you. How are you supposed to know how hard the car was driven prior to purchasing if it doesn't show up in the PPI? If they are going to hold you responsible, which is essentially what they're doing, they should've "pulled data from the car" before re-selling it and made the necessary repairs.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Esteban

That's not fair to you. How are you supposed to know how hard the car was driven prior to purchasing if it doesn't show up in the PPI? If they are going to hold you responsible, which is essentially what they're doing, they should've "pulled data from the car" before re-selling it and made the necessary repairs.

Agree... Or it would have prevented them from CPO'ing it.

[Wolfie1]

Hey I know this thread is a few months old but I just wanted to see how your car was doing??

Today I took mine into the BMW dealership for a software update after I leave I go get dinner. Driving around in sport mode shifting with paddles. I wasn't driving hard never redlined. Got the yellow trans overheating light. Went on and off... On and off. Then I got to the restaurant had dinner and then went to drive home.

On the way home the light was on the entire time and the trans was in the failsafe mode. It was having a hard time getting into gear. Finally it just wouldn't engage and felt like I was in neutral and the light turned red. I put the car in neutral and pushed it to the side of the road. Waited maybe 3 minutes turned it back on and drove the car home completely fine....


2 hours later went out to the car and had a lot of fluid underneath. I think most of it was off the AC but it rolled over the white lines in my parking lot and looked green. Checked my coolant level and I was below the min in the resivor tank. And I know this is bad but I totally forgot to ever check it..I know dumb move... so I don't have a reference to where it was. Went for a drive came back and it seems to be just having the AC water coming off..


I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

Your transmission is failing. What you are experiencing is the way cars or all things mechanical communicate their feelings about their conditions.

During this period of time, owners try to rationalize the situation that these warnings are flukes of ghostly bugs. Eventually they accept the inevitable and open their wallets.

The dealers on the other hand, do recognize these signs of failure and try to weasel out of any responsibility. This is when owners have to get hard nosed about these issues to prevent getting buggered!

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by Wolfie1

Hey I know this thread is a few months old but I just wanted to see how your car was doing??

Today I took mine into the BMW dealership for a software update after I leave I go get dinner. Driving around in sport mode shifting with paddles. I wasn't driving hard never redlined. Got the yellow trans overheating light. Went on and off... On and off. Then I got to the restaurant had dinner and then went to drive home.

On the way home the light was on the entire time and the trans was in the failsafe mode. It was having a hard time getting into gear. Finally it just wouldn't engage and felt like I was in neutral and the light turned red. I put the car in neutral and pushed it to the side of the road. Waited maybe 3 minutes turned it back on and drove the car home completely fine....


2 hours later went out to the car and had a lot of fluid underneath. I think most of it was off the AC but it rolled over the white lines in my parking lot and looked green. Checked my coolant level and I was below the min in the resivor tank. And I know this is bad but I totally forgot to ever check it..I know dumb move... so I don't have a reference to where it was. Went for a drive came back and it seems to be just having the AC water coming off..


I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Oh wow, your experience is quite different from mine.

To update, I have a sample of the fluid I sent off to Blackstone today (good timing on the bump). The fluid seemed quite clean, cleaner than most of the fluid sample pictures I've seen online for that matter. I did have the transmission adaptations reset about 2 months ago and the light has not come back since. This seemed to do the trick for a few of the m3 guys who were having the same issue.

I've never had the transmission go into limp mode over this for any extender period of time. Usually just a quick flicker of the light, and then off again for months at a time. Given that I've put 20k miles on the car since this this issue started and the random nature of it, contrary to the above post, I do suspect the trans reset may have done the trick.

Your case seems a bit different, especially with the car going into limp mode for an extended period of time. I'd definitely have a mechanic look it over. From my several visits to the dealership with my issue, the shop foreman told me the DCT boxes are very smart and will throw a specific code for the part that's failing. In my case, I was getting a simple generic "risk of trans overheating code".

Good luck with your car!

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by Mr Rooty Von Tooty

Your transmission is failing. What you are experiencing is the way cars or all things mechanical communicate their feelings about their conditions.

During this period of time, owners try to rationalize the situation that these warnings are flukes of ghostly bugs. Eventually they accept the inevitable and open their wallets.

The dealers on the other hand, do recognize these signs of failure and try to weasel out of any responsibility. This is when owners have to get hard nosed about these issues to prevent getting buggered!

The overheat warnings are reasonably well-documented with the e90 m3 DCT crowd and there's no documented cases of the 7DCI600 failing in any of those cars. These Getrag boxes are over-engineered for these cars and are built with all kinds of safety switches to prevent damage, which I'm going to assume is the reason why the only DCT failures I've found online are a handful of brand new cars with less than 5k or so miles. I'd put that under the category of statistical anomaly I suppose.

With that said, the prev poster should definitely have his car looked at, as his symptoms are a bit different than mine. The DCT pans are known to seep over time (theory is the pan and trans are composed of different metals and heat/cool at different rates, leading to eventual failure of the gasket). His might have seeped enough to start causing issues. Mechatronics sleeve might also do it.

Hoepfully in his case, it's not too bad a fix :\