0-60 135 opinion

[joelk]

in case u didnt notice, the bmwusa site now states 0 to 60 in 5.1

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Garrett

OMG...lol

Ok Corky, BMW themselves have claimed the 1970's 2002 was the inspiration for them bringing forth and making the smaller 1 series. Since you don't bother to even click on the links or further investigate then your ignorance will remain. I can tell your not interested in learning anything or sharing ideas. The 1series is just now comming to the US, in the form of the coupe'. This car was clayed and modeled with photos of the 2002 on easels in the design studio. I've seen photos and interviews going back a full year. It's not some strummed up marketing hype.

You obviously don't understand BMW, their engineering and why their cars are among the best cars for over past 50 years. Why each car has a specific DNA about it, lost on other cars manufacturers. Your Ford comparison is a joke, ford does not have that level of engineering or refinement. For them its just aesthetics not engineering!

Thirdly, you arbitrarilly discounted Moter Trend's Best Handling Cars On The Market , simply because you feel they have an agenda, yet I'm suppose to believe YOU? Why not just read the article, read between the lines... along with other mags and pull the pertinent info from the article..? No mag is 100% correct, thats why I read them all and derive my own opinions.

You seriously have a bug up your but about not educating yourself. Have you ever driven a Zo6 or a BMW M3 or 335..? Those cars handle great and offer alot more than a Mitsu EVO. You have to be really on the edge to exact the performance the EVO has over the 335 or the other cars. Track day is where the EVO shines the most. I guess you didn't understand that I am not denying that the evo is a great handleing car, the EVO does carve it up, but that doesn't mean other cays can't. The Cayman S will outhandle the Mitsu, but the Cayman suffers from the same fatigue the EVo does.

You make it sound as if the EVO will be laping a 135i on a road coarse, when the simple fact is that it might be a second or two faster, at most! To me that is perfect, because the BMW offers alot more than the EVO in terms of comfort, build quality, luxury, smoothness and refinement. You can't add those things to an EVO, but you certainly can make the 135i lighter and get rid of the RFT's that plague the 335i's handling.

It remains to see what DNA from the 2002 is left over in the 1 series and how much steering response and feedback the BMW engineers have allowed into the 1 series. But we know it is greater than the 3 series.


The EVo will not have as much advantage over the 135i as you think. Many Cayman owners are looking into this 135i because they want a more refined GT style car, but don't want to sacrifice the Cayman's handling. Yes, there will be some sacrifices, but I know driving an EVO (like the Porsche) anything more than a couple of hours becomes tiring. The reason I got ride of my Zo6 and havn't pulled the trigger on the Cayman S. So if I feel the new M3 isn't all that great I will just load up a 135i, yank the RFT's, slap on some QD-7's and not worry all that much about anything.

Either way, I am looking for a comparo between the two cars, since they are targeting the same buyers.




-Garrett

I am in agreement with youcompletely Garrett. I dont expect the EVO to completely demolish a 135i out the box. I do epect the EVO to have a slight performance edge since it has an LSD, AWD, and numerous handling systems. You were right in bringing up the 335i. Its a a fantastic handling car and the suspension wasnt even tweaked by //M. If you look at the slalom times for a 335i it is really quite high for a not so tiny car.

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by kurichan

Out of the box, simply because it's a BMW, the 1er handling will be more balanced than sharp.

I would like my 135s handling much like I prefer my cheese, balanced, not sharp....sharp is, well, too sharp....but balanced, sometimes it's a little sharp, sometimes maybe not, it's just, balanced......:wink:

am I missing something here....isnt an "EVO" a Mitsubishi Lancer?....albeit a tuned up one....

I don't mean to be flip, but are you guys planning to take your 135s and EVOs out to a track to test balanced and sharp handling?......can you actually determine the difference between balanced and sharp handling in normal street driving?

[dna550]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

I would like my 135s handling much like I prefer my cheese, balanced, not sharp....sharp is, well, too sharp....but balanced, sometimes it's a little sharp, sometimes maybe not, it's just, balanced......:wink:

....are you guys planning to take your 135s and EVOs out to a track to test balanced and sharp handling?......can you actually determine the difference between balanced and sharp handling in normal street driving?

BMW suspensions are tuned on the Nurburgring and BMW does a "pretty good job at tuning suspensions." :wink:

I imagine the handling will be sublime. The 135i might not handle bumps in corners as smoothly as some cars but the transition from straight line to cornering is one of the hallmarks of a BMW with a sports suspension.

[240M3SRT]

Heres the real question you should be asking as far a 0-60 is concerned.

"how wide tires can i fit under the rear before i have to tuck/roll/hack the fenders, or until inner body/suspension interference becomes an issue?"

Im still waiting on the answer to this one, because all the power in the world is useless if you cant put it to the pavement. Then again, BMW usually focus's on ability to handle rather than raw acceleration.

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by dna550

the transition from straight line to cornering is one of the hallmarks of a BMW

I like that the vehicle is slated to handle well, but honestly, I would be very concerned about spilling my coffee with hard cornering.....my biggest hope for the 135 is blistering off the line acceleration and 30-90 mph passing power.....to me, thats where the "rubber meets the road"....

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by joelk

in case u didnt notice, the bmwusa site now states 0 to 60 in 5.1

nice, but still hoping for sub 5.0.......thats serious acceleration at consensus price point

240m3srt, 245s in the rear are pretty beefy....

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

nice, but still hoping for sub 5.0.......thats serious acceleration at consensus price point

240m3srt, 245s in the rear are pretty beefy....

245 was beefy about 10 years ago I'll be very disappointed if I cant get 255-265 under the rear. ofcourse I'm not opposed to taking a nice piece of PVC tubing and doing a little rolling.

[Italteen3]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

nice, but still hoping for sub 5.0.......thats serious acceleration at consensus price point

240m3srt, 245s in the rear are pretty beefy....

BMW quotes on the 335i were conservative and with the same engine in the 135i many magazines' opinions are that the BMW 135i 0-60 estimate is conservative as well. Don't see any issue with the stock 135i 0-60 being the same if not a TAD* quicker then the 335i's.

Definitely rolling the fenders here

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Italteen3

BMW quotes on the 335i were conservative and with the same engine in the 135i many magazines' opinions are that the BMW 135i 0-60 estimate is conservative as well. Don't see any issue with the stock 135i 0-60 being the same if not a TAD* quicker then the 335i's.

Definitely rolling the fenders here

Yeah, but most stock 335's are right around 5.0 seconds. With BMW claiming 0~60 times of 5.1 for the 135i, I would guess the one'r will do it a tad quicker given BMW long standing tradition of underating their official claims.

My guess is 4.9 seconds as a best case scenario and generally more like 5s flat. Although, thats only half the story, this One'r will have Brembo's upfront, so the breaking should be tight. This car will be an all-around performer and if you toss PROcede into the mix you be playing with Porsche's all day long.

A moded suspension, bigger tires (how big?) and this car will be the ultimate sleeper.

No sense in talking more engine(HP) other than what PROcede gives, because the limiting factor is possibly tire width.

With these comming stock:
215/40 R 18
245/35 R 18

I'd like to at least get a set of these under the car:
225/40 R 18
255/35 R 18

If not something slightly bigger such as:
230/40 R 18
265/35 R 18


Only time will tell.







-Garrett

[gimped]

I love these "my e-peen is bigger than yours" arguments

[Mr. E]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

0-60 to me is a benchmark i like to use to compare with other vehicles....top end speed is useless to me since i rarely drive over 90 here in morally bankrupt S FL.....you get caught driving fast here youre in big trouble.....Nevertheless, I love the thrill of accelerating with my back pinned to the seat.....exhilerating....

Get a fast street bike then, no car will touch you 0-60.

As for the 0-60 MT vs AT...most AT with paddle shifters will shift faster than any human can. I am thinking about 5 flat.

[321]

Kurichan = 3

Atr_hugo = 1

Garret = -1

The reason i gave you negative points instead of zero was for the misinformation. (and for being sniped by marketing tacticts)

Originally Posted by Garrett

this One'r will have Brembo's upfront

Really?? Didn't you read the site you posted?:eyebulge:

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by Garrett

You obviously don't understand BMW, their engineering and why their cars are among the best cars for over past 50 years.

You've never OWNED a BMW. I've owned SEVERAL.

I also happen to be, among other things, CEO of an engine technology company, with deep connections in the industry, and come from a family that has racing in its blood and has been racing for generations.

I've personally removed the engine of my weekend car six times in the last year to replace clutches, alternators, entire transmissions, swap rear end ratio, etc, I adjust the valve gaps every 3000 km, etc. And you think I don't understand cars...

You are actually comparing the 335i's handling to an Evo.

You have no credibility.

I am beginning to suspect that I am debating with a 14 year old Motor Trend fanboi...

Dude, you are a car marketer's wet dream. Quintissential marque victim.

Believe whatever you want.

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

can you actually determine the difference between balanced and sharp handling in normal street driving?

Yup. Drive an Evo IX. You'll understand immediately. Clear as day.

The Evo IX is a total hoot - razor sharp, telepathic, even twitchy. But I wouldn't want to drive one every day.

That's where BMW comes in... Great response for sporty driving, great stability, especially at speed, and absorbs bumps wonderfully without being pillowy or floaty. Also handles rough pavement well going straight or in turns.

But certainly no track monster like the Evo.

In a word, balanced.

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by Garrett

You make it sound as if the EVO will be laping a 135i on a road coarse

I do?

Your interpretations of all sorts of things are "interesting" to say the least, almost as interesting as your spelling. The 14 year old theory is starting to look more realistic...

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by 240M3SRT

Heres the real question you should be asking as far a 0-60 is concerned.

"how wide tires can i fit under the rear before i have to tuck/roll/hack the fenders, or until inner body/suspension interference becomes an issue?"

And don't forget: how skilled is the driver?

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Kurichan - arguing with fanboix is a role usually assigned to Sisyphus. :biggrin:

Yeah, the boulder is starting to get heavy, but the laughs I get for the labor still makes it worth it... :wink:

[atr_hugo]

You know Garrett, I was going to give your crap a pass - then, hell I got pissed enough that I told the moderators to throw either you or me out - since they've decided to stay out of it, I gotta take care of your pathetic drivel myself.

You and I are going to have a confrontation. I am calling you out - I challenge you to list your automotive credentials and supply references that can vouch for those credentials - I ain't taking the word of your homies either - your references must be from adults, verifiable (oh wait I got it, your industry experience is as a towel boy at the local car wash ; -). I'll be more than happy to supply at least 10 references for mine (adults also by the way).

I'll give you a bit of my credentials now so that you know what you're up against. I am a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (heck I even have a wonderful certificate for that one). I have had the good luck to cover a number of long-lead and short lead press events in the past 10 years for manufacturers as diverse as Toyota, Ford, Chrsyler, GM, MB, Subaru, Porsche, and BMW.

I've had driving sesions at the BMW PDC, at a rally school in Florida, at Spring Mountain Raceway, Road Atlanta, PPIR and Mont Tremblant. You don't even want to know the number of different cars I've driven in the past ten years (or the fact that I've driven Cobras at Romeo, a C6 Z51 at Milford and a really fun drive in a Dodge Charger police car at Chelsea). I've covered (as a journalist) the Indy 500, the Pike's Peak Hill Climb, and have attended more races then you are years old.

I have standing press credentials at SEMA and have covered the Pebble Beach Concours twice since 1999. I am currently working on a history of Front Wheel Drive (ever hear of Riley Brett, Harry Miller, Ben Gregory, Gregoire - nope didn't think you would have).

You can't afford to buy my automotive library - and since you're such an expert on 'sports cars' I would expect you to have a copy of 'Time and Two Seats' in your library (oh, sorry you've never heard of it have you). How about Pomeroy's 'Grand Prix' cars (oh, before your time - sorry). Any of Chris Nixon's books? (Nope, he's dead.) How about LJK Setright (nope, he's too hung up on Bristols - oh but they're basically BMWs so maybe you got something on that).

I look forward to you providing me with the details of your vast treasure store of automotive expertise. (It has to be better than your English grammer. Oh and the sarcasm is part of the package - since you're so hung up on it. ; -)

Oh and to make it worthwhile, why don't we put some money on it? Awaiting your reply.

[TESLAASTRO]

I'll volunteer my auto credentials....

a 28 minute commute to Ft Lauderdale every day , with first a quick stop to Starbucks.....I use a dishtowel as a bib because the tightness of my sport suspension sometimes makes me spill coffee on my tie.....oh, and once every 2 weeks I go to the car wash for a "works" wash...$6 with a coupon.....:wink:

[atr_hugo]

I think you have Garrett beat!

Sorry about the hijacking but these punk bully-boy poseurs are a regal pain in the butt - either we do something about it or they end up turning these boards into cesspools of fanboi group-think.

[joelk]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

I think you have Garrett beat!

Sorry about the hijacking but these punk bully-boy poseurs are a regal pain in the butt - either we do something about it or they end up turning these boards into cesspools of fanboi group-think.

agreed.