New HPFP from BMW out (part # 943)

[mattssi]

CROSSING FINGERS...I just got my 881 pump on my 2010...engine codes as early as 600 miles. Hopefully this fixes it...

[komitao]

^ 881? you want the 943!

[mattssi]

Originally Posted by komitao

^ 881? you want the 943!

I know, but when I took the car in about 2 weeks ago they replaced it with an 881.

They also wash and scratched it and had poor service overall, so what can you expect.

[DBFIU]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Sorry but your statement is nonsense. BMW and all other car companies instruct owners to drive the car with restricted revs and throttle for 600-1000 miles to allow all internal engine components to burnish in properly. Failure to heed this requirement results in increased wear and internal friction in the engine as confirmed by all major car companies. The rest of the powertain including the trans, diff, bearings, etc. all need run in time for optimum performance and longevity.

HPFP failures have nothing to do with how the engine is broken in however.

Let me elaborate.

An engine has many parts that are machined very very precisely.

Pistons, rings, cylinder walls, everything is machined and some surfaces are highly polished. A lot of rubbing takes place between all these parts, rubbing = shear.

If you take a piston skirt and put it under a microscope and view it, it is not smooth as it seems to the naked eye. That is because no machining process no matter how advanced; can get a perfectly smooth surface.

The surface of a piston or cylinder wall is actually quite jagged, this jagged surface is the first thing the cylinder and piston wall see with respect to eachother.

As soon as you turn the car on, the oil acts as a shearing mechanism to help removed the jaggedness of the rubbing surfaces. MOST of the actual break in period occurs VERY rapidly, over a very short amount of time.

Needless to say, it doesnt take 1200 miles to break an engine in.

Lets do the math TrackRat.

If you have a 3" stroke engine, that runs 30 minutes at 2000 RPM it has spun a total of 60,000 revolutions. That means the piston has travelled about 60,000 x 3" = 180,000 inches or 15,000 feet. In just 30 minutes. That is a lot of rubbing. Quantitatively, its enough to smooth out two metal surfaces quite nicely, with the right oil. (Although for practical purposes, 'break in' takes more than half an hour)

Big car companies will tell you to 'drive easy for 1200 miles' as a precaution.
But that is to save their ass and is just precautionary. If it really was such a huge deal, the engines would need full break in from the factory (they dont get that) and we all know that the average SOCCOR MOM doesnt break in her engine for 1200 miles. And those engines run FINE.

Also, one reason they want you to load the engine is to help the oil make its way up the crosshatching on the inside of the cylinder walls. The crosshatch angle is about 60 degrees in most cases, and the vacuum due to letting off the gas will help suck oil up to the top of the piston. This is why engines need to be loaded and unloaded, or at least one reason why.

People need to stop being so sensitive with break in, it is not rocket science. I just explained to you how the metal on metal and metal on oil react, which happens a lot faster than the car companies want you to believe.

If you want to run 1200 miles to break in your engine, thats fine. Nothing against that, but it is not necessary.

I have seen engines get put together, broken in for half an hour then run the 1/4 mile (get beat one BAD), and running phenomenal times. Many personal records were broken this way, but enough of my experience.

Im not trying to start sh1t, but dont tell me nonsense.

Thanks,


- Dan

[BoostedTerp]

Somone on e90post just had their HPFP replaced with a 943 unit, though he's in Europe. Hopefully we'll all be getting these soon.

[Mark M]

Even though the engine may not require 1200 miles for a full break in, what about the gearbox and final drive, the brakes, etc. Sheering is not the only area of concern. What about thermal conductiveness? Heat from various materials? Going easy on the machine early on helps with the seating of gaskets, seals, etc.

I still feel it is wise to gently break in an expensive piece of machinery.

[ronnyek]

anyone know how I could get my hands on a bad hpfp? (I want to see/understand the failure)

Also, I hope my dealer is sympathetic and will hold out until a 943 pump comes into stock there. I'll just tell them I"ll wait so long as its not hindering my ability to drive the bastage

[DBFIU]

Originally Posted by ronnyek

anyone know how I could get my hands on a bad hpfp? (I want to see/understand the failure)

Also, I hope my dealer is sympathetic and will hold out until a 943 pump comes into stock there. I'll just tell them I"ll wait so long as its not hindering my ability to drive the bastage

I am trying to get my hands on a bad HPFP. I can run my own analysis. Not that BMW wouldnt know how, or doesnt want to; they will do a better job than me. Problem is they are taking too long, so I would like to do the job myself.

[ronnyek]

pretty funny took my car to the dealer, they say gotta throw a code, seeing it take 15 seconds of cranking to start is no evidence. I am not complaining though because even though its embarrassing... maybe by the time it does throw a code my dealer will have the new model.

I've got serious frustrations wiht this car... I've always said "its the price you pay"... but its getting kinda old. I know its nothing compared to some peoples problems but I've had...

Going on to my 3rd HPFP
steeringwheel trim 2x (peeling)
both door handles replaced one time for problems with the comfort access
rear right taillight LED assembly went out
rear 3rd brake light decided to eject itself one day
been in the shop for wastegate noise which they've tried to fix to no avail
One time they told me the car had the wrong software on it

now I got weird stuff like AC/Heater doesnt work reliably (sometimes you have heat to 80f and its cold coming out of the vents like AC)

long story short... I'd be VERY VERY happy about a HPFP I didn thave to worry about oging out in the immediate future... and if they could fix a few other little bugs... I think the 135 would be right back at the top of super happy with the car

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by WhiteOne

My 2008 135i was broken in crisscrossing the Alps.
Now at 16,000 miles and no HPFP problems.
Sorry to hear you guys are having them.

Same here, except I'm only at 15k

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by BoostedTerp

It's OEM. However I'm pretty sure BMW uses Bosch to manufacture these pumps for them.

I remember seeing the newest pump is made by Continental, while the older ones were made by Bosch.

[DBFIU]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Siemens was the OE HPFP supplier to BMW on the N54 engines in the x35i models. Then BMW switched to Bosch. Now they have switched to Continental who reportedly bought Siemens automotive division. So it's a second try with Siemens technically, but I have a feeling the vendor supplier is not the problem since there have been two reputable suppliers and the problem still exist after four model years.

I would have to agree, I don't think it's the pump itself. Moreso faulty auxiliary equipment that forces pump failure i.e. sensors etc...

EDIT: For the most part a mechanical high pressure pump is not a very complicated device, and are very popular in diesel engines (BMW knows how to make these). Which is what leads me to believe it isn't the actual pump design.

[themyst]

Now that MY09 has the HPFP warranty extended to 120k miles, my main source of concern is the injectors. They seem to be going bad on cars at a greater frequency lately and this is a far more expensive fix than the HPFP, especially if all six have to be replaced.

[jeremydgreat]

Its been about a month since the #943 pump came out right? Has anyone heard of a #943 pump failing yet?

[ronnyek]

My local dealer has given me the hard "...we will not replace it until we see codes PERIOD...", which it did have "fuel pump plausibility" code in there for sure once and I brought it to them.

The aggravating bit is, I know how it feels when you get a new pump... its a totally diff car. So I've got a pump thats been limping along for a few mo, and thats supposed to be acceptable to me. They are fully stocked on the 993 at my dealer, but maybe a while before they will actually do shit for me.

[ianc]

I mentioned this to my SA when I brought the car back to the dealer the other day to pick up the Tchotchke floor mats they gave me to sweeten the purchase deal.

He was under the impression that the 943 fixed the problem. He said that to his knowledge, they have not had a 943 failure yet, while they were getting 2-3 failures per month in earlier revs of the pump.

Nothing concrete, but not bad news either...

ianc

[jeremydgreat]

Originally Posted by ianc

He was under the impression that the 943 fixed the problem.

Ah. He must be new to these parts.

[Novator]

I had #943 HPFP installed last Wednesday, my car feels brand new

[themyst]

So far so good. No #943 failures yet!

[HPFREAK]

Originally Posted by jeremydgreat

Its been about a month since the #943 pump came out right? Has anyone heard of a #943 pump failing yet?

Yes I know 2 people locally that have had the 943 installed within the last 2 weeks and they are already getting long cranks and throwing 2FBF's and 2AAF. So no such luck. I did find out thought that the morons in the CA Air Resources Board and our great state let the Ethanol be increased from 10 to 15% recently. I swear to god these people are pluckin idiots that should no more be in charge of a Legoland then our state.

[RGM135i]

Damn...thought BMW might have had the answer.

[desmat]

Originally Posted by Novator

I had #943 HPFP installed last Wednesday, my car feels brand new

Mine was installed yesterday. My car feels the same as yours !