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      04-26-2018, 07:53 AM   #133
bbnks2
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Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
How does your car behave now without ediff enabled?
Do you have an LSD?
Manual or auto?
Can you spin around corners no problem?
WOT launches and get a good amount of wheel spin? Or do you have to brake torque if auto?
Or do you feel the car is still rather controlled to some degree even when getting aggressive?
Sounds like you just want to burn rubber. You should be able to spin tires and drift around corners just fine with e-diff.... E-diff does not prevent wheel spin. Its goal is to keep both wheels spinning at the same speed.

I disabled it to see how it felt a while back. The car is LESS likely to "drift" because the inside tire will spin and all the torque will transfer to that wheel. In that sense, the car actually felt more easily controlled (less loose), but putting power down without spinning the inside wheel was difficult and almost always ended up in being slower around corners.

Not sure what a "WOT" launch is... I launch my manual at around 2700rpms-3700rpms when tires are hot and sticky. Anything more and all I do is spin. Disabling e-diff probably made launching much worse since one axel is shorter than the other. One tire almost always broke traction before the other which made the launch slower off the line.

Long story short, don't disable e-diff without having a mechanical diff unless you have a stock tune and some very sticky tires (you won't spin wheels).

I now have a mechanical diff with e-diff disabled (M3 visco-lok). I can drift much more easily if that's your goal... Car feels much better in all aspects than when using the stock e-diff.
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      04-26-2018, 11:37 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Sounds like you just want to burn rubber. You should be able to spin tires and drift around corners just fine with e-diff.... E-diff does not prevent wheel spin. Its goal is to keep both wheels spinning at the same speed.

I disabled it to see how it felt a while back. The car is LESS likely to "drift" because the inside tire will spin and all the torque will transfer to that wheel. In that sense, the car actually felt more easily controlled (less loose), but putting power down without spinning the inside wheel was difficult and almost always ended up in being slower around corners.

Not sure what a "WOT" launch is... I launch my manual at around 2700rpms-3700rpms when tires are hot and sticky. Anything more and all I do is spin. Disabling e-diff probably made launching much worse since one axel is shorter than the other. One tire almost always broke traction before the other which made the launch slower off the line.

Long story short, don't disable e-diff without having a mechanical diff unless you have a stock tune and some very sticky tires (you won't spin wheels).

I now have a mechanical diff with e-diff disabled (M3 visco-lok). I can drift much more easily if that's your goal... Car feels much better in all aspects than when using the stock e-diff.
Glad it's working out for you.

The following comments is with DSC disabled.

I'm really trying to gauge people's personal experience with disabling ediff. It seems many are having a different outcomes. Some say they still get braking and power cuts. Some say no difference, Others say WOW what a major improvement and no more power cuts or braking. As for myself, disabling ediff does lesson the traction controls Intervention. However, it doesn't prevent braking or even some type of power reduction completely. My dealer seems to think BMW may have done this intentionally but they're not sure. I was beginning to wonder if my situation is unique to myself.

I have a quaife diff and I still have braking of 1 wheel or power reduction in certain cornering situations. Even in some WOT straight line situations power to the ground is limited if too much power is attempted that could cause too much loss in traction. Wheel spin is very controlled when its allowed. I feel like braking force is active all the time even when driving normally around town. Sort of like brake pretensioning. Brakes are applied to individual wheels front and rear depending on the situation when I'm trying to have fun.

I've intentionally floored the throttle around certain corners. You'd expect loss of traction but the car adjust power and braking nearly Instantaneously to prevent further power down until the wheel is beginning to straighten out even in first gear. This is not the case for every situation. Sometimes I'm allowed more freedom in corners depending on the surface, steering angle etc.

Even when it rains outside, my cars traction system literally adjust to the tires coefficient of friction. I can floor it depending on the gear I'm in and instead of spinning, the car gives me the maximum amount of power and forward motion the surface will allow. This is pretty neat when you think about it since it can help you stay out of trouble. When I first got my LSD installed years ago, even part throttle had the car slipping or spinning.

With a stock turbos, custom MHD tune, e85, xhp FBO setup, I can spin 1st and 2nd in most situations if I want to have fun. 3rd and 4th gear wants to spin but I'll feel the brakes or even a brief sudden power reduction to stop this from happening. Sometimes it'll apply brakes to a front wheel or a rear wheel.

The car is faster in most situations with traction assist but assistance is unwanted sometimes. So there are pros and cons.

Thanks for your feedback
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      04-27-2018, 01:20 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
Thanks for your feedback
I don't know... I can't agree with a lot of what you're saying. You realize a quaife LSD biases torque just like e-diff attempts to do with the brakes, right?

The M3 visco-lok is a progressive locking diff that can achieve 100% lockup. That is what makes my car easier to put into a full on drift. You may just be feeling the differential locking up the spinning wheel? My car doesn't spin tires nearly as easily as it used to because the M3 diff is so much more effective at managing the torque bias. It's not until both wheel lose traction abruptly (liek dumping the clutch) that the diff locks up 100% and both wheels spin/drift.

Only real way to know is to know if you're still getting brake intervention is to log the channels using something like an Aim Solo.
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      05-07-2018, 11:38 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
I don't know... I can't agree with a lot of what you're saying. You realize a quaife LSD biases torque just like e-diff attempts to do with the brakes, right?

The M3 visco-lok is a progressive locking diff that can achieve 100% lockup. That is what makes my car easier to put into a full on drift. You may just be feeling the differential locking up the spinning wheel? My car doesn't spin tires nearly as easily as it used to because the M3 diff is so much more effective at managing the torque bias. It's not until both wheel lose traction abruptly (liek dumping the clutch) that the diff locks up 100% and both wheels spin/drift.

Only real way to know is to know if you're still getting brake intervention is to log the channels using something like an Aim Solo.
I wasn't asking you to agree with me. Just giving my personal experience. I an 07 model. Trust me. My car would light up tires and drift easily before and after the LSD install without any intervention from electronics. Something is different with my car now that allows the ecu to control how much power Is allowed in slip situations or even non slip conditions.
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      05-08-2018, 08:12 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
I wasn't asking you to agree with me. Just giving my personal experience. I an 07 model. Trust me. My car would light up tires and drift easily before and after the LSD install without any intervention from electronics. Something is different with my car now that allows the ecu to control how much power Is allowed in slip situations or even non slip conditions.
Post up a log showing the torque reduction. Should be easy enough to get one.
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      05-08-2018, 09:36 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Post up a log showing the torque reduction. Should be easy enough to get one.
I won't be postings any logs. Brake logging devices are too expensive. What's the point. It wouldn't resolve my issue anyway. Just be glad your not having the problem.
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      05-08-2018, 12:34 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
I won't be postings any logs. Brake logging devices are too expensive. What's the point. It wouldn't resolve my issue anyway. Just be glad your not having the problem.
Well, torque limiters are something that have been tuned out. Might be worth looking into.
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      05-08-2018, 02:04 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Well, torque limiters are something that have been tuned out. Might be worth looking into.
It's not just a simple torque reduction. All ECUs are working together depending on the driving situation. DME, DSC, TCU etc. There is a lot of braking activity which can occur on any wheel depending on the driving conditions. We can see via MHD odd timing reduction at the time of wheelspin in logs and even slight boost drop. Once the DME and other modules adapt, more timing and boost is allowed but then braking controls how the power to the wheels is put down.
I can literally punch the accelerator going around a corner and the car provides no power to the wheels until the steering wheel the begins to straighten out. Then the power comes on suddenly launching me down the road.

Braking or power cuts sometimes hit aggressively. When the power cuts hit, the logs show the rpms going from diagnol to horizontal for a brief moment in 3rd gear pulls. Then rpms recover and may slow down again depending on traction. Sometimes I do get a brief moment of spin initially in 3rd but afterwards it feels like the car is riding the brakes slightly to keep the car controlled.

I have a safe aggressive tune now so 1st and 2nd gear straight line acceleration is amazing but controlled braking and power cuts still occur in corners. Shifting into 3rd WOT manually results in a thump sometimes as the ECU attempts to slow down the sudden surge of power/wheelspin attempt going into 3rd. Situations really vary depending on if I'm in manual mode, auto, good traction, bad traction, weather, how much power I'm putting down, steering angle etc.


The good news is these problems aren't as bad in warm weather and sticky tires. I've noticed the car allows much more power in corners and launching when it senses more available grip.

The BMW dealer has checked my car out several times and dont know what to say. Theyve replaced the DSC module and DSC dutton. Software updates etc. Didnt make a bit of difference. They feel traction cant be turned all the way off if BMW programmed it that way. They cant reverse it. Others say it shouldnt behave like this. They don't see fault codes so they assume all is well.

I'm kind of wondering if there's something going on hardware/electronic related no one can see right now. But, some others have reported similar issues so maybe not. Disconnecting the DSC module believe it or not doesn't stop the issue. The car simply keeps me on the right path as safe as possible with a little fun. These cars can easily spin 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear if it wasn't for the ecu adding some safety features. So I guess I'll have to live with that for now.
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      06-02-2018, 11:50 AM   #141
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Some additional Information I've observed.

2 years ago I drove the new 328i and 435i and found they drove the same way my car does having electronics step in to keep the car from getting out of control or major traction loss. This is with all traction control disabled. I wasn't 100% sure at that time what was going on with my car especially seeing coding only gave me little less intervention instead of eliminating traction assistance.

Over the last few weeks, I've had the pleasure of driving several different new BMWs. 2017 330i and 2018 x3 we enjoyed an out town commute. After several days in these vehicles, im convinced that BMW integrated ADB and other nannies in a software update to my 2007 335i. These vehicles drive identical to mine in each driving situation. For example:
1. Power delivery delay when cornering even with accelerator fully depressed. Then, a sudden surge of power once the steering wheel is straight ahead.
2. Complete power cut when aggressive on the throttle mid turn or apex.
3. Using brake pressure to make the brake pedal to give more braking power with less travel.
4. Using brake pressure to stabilize the vehicle during normal driving to emulate a car with a stiffer more stable feel. Mostly with DSC on.
5. Car does get a more lose softer feel with DSC off as brake pressure is minimal during normal driving. Backup electronics still in place to mitigate traction loss and prevent full power delivery in certain situations.
6. The ECU will determine what parameters to adjust for safer driving depending on the driving situation. A brief throttle closure, timing adjust, brake a right wheel vs left, brake front vs rear, short shift, rpm drop, throttle delay, torque reduction ect. The ECU picks what will work best for the situation and keep the vehicle moving as fast as possible safely.

The bottom line BMW is smart enough to prevent full power delivery in a rear wheel drive car and a steering wheel pointed at an angle that will cause the rear end to swing completely out of control. Even on xdrive with its sophisticated system. Bare in mind at high enough speeds, electronics may not prevent the car from swinging out of control. In a track environment, it will be easier to get the car out but it will still be limited compared to not having electronics at all.

Most people may not even notice anything or know electronics is influencing everyday driving because the car drives so good. They may have only driven 2008 and up vehicles with ADB. Anyone who has driven a 2007 335i when they first came out knows you could get in a lot of trouble easily especially with a tune. You'd better know how to drive with DSC off because you were truly on your own once you press the accelerator. Burning rubber, spinning for an eternity, drifting with full power. Stock turbos can easily spin 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear with a tune and WOT launch if not for electronics. My custom tune is really giving my electronics a work out as I spin complete through 1st and 2nd if i want. Spin briefly going into 3rd and slightly going into 4th I think. It's hard to tell at that speed. This is an auto trans.

Hopefully, the electronics don't glitch or fail with full power down. That sure would throw a wrench In predictability. I think I'm at peace with this whole setup now seeing it's the way things are designed by BMW. I'm done with trying to fix something that's not broken. At best, I have less intervention with coding but I'm on par with modern technology. No way to go back to original 2007 software setup. Its better this way. Who wants to end up spinning or having limited driving stability when they dont want it anyway. Electronics have proven to me to be superior in many situations and safer. I hope this helps someone.
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      06-08-2018, 07:50 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
Some additional Information I've observed.
Yes, this is all standard coding... Some cars get a bit more parameters than others. This thread shows you how to code most of the stuff you mention off. So, can't help you much without seeing exactly what you've changed. Can you dump your trace file here for us?

Personally, I have none of the issues you describe above. My car gets plenty sideways on a track and I've got to be very careful with the throttle. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=79

I did notice the "brake" pid showing activation at weird times in my latest palmer logs/video, but I think it's g-force based and not the actual brake pressure or switch indicator... Not really interested in spending $400+ dollars on a more robust logging system to capture that kind of data. Contact @fe1rx or someone else who has posted individual brake line pressures and maybe they can get data for you of their cars? Or, go buy an aim solo and do some digging for us all.
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      06-08-2018, 11:48 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Yes, this is all standard coding... Some cars get a bit more parameters than others. This thread shows you how to code most of the stuff you mention off. So, can't help you much without seeing exactly what you've changed. Can you dump your trace file here for us?

Personally, I have none of the issues you describe above. My car gets plenty sideways on a track and I've got to be very careful with the throttle. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=79

I did notice the "brake" pid showing activation at weird times in my latest palmer logs/video, but I think it's g-force based and not the actual brake pressure or switch indicator... Not really interested in spending $400+ dollars on a more robust logging system to capture that kind of data. Contact @fe1rx or someone else who has posted individual brake line pressures and maybe they can get data for you of their cars? Or, go buy an aim solo and do some digging for us all.

I gotta be honest. I've never gone to a track. I can make the car go sideways but don't practice it. I'm running MHD custom tune and xhp v3 which gives me a lot more freedom with car. I haven't found anything else to code out in the DSC module. But I don't really need it now with all the power I have. Even if I unplug the DSC module, I still get some type of cornering intervention. In my case, it's not just dsc. It's probably the DME. It's best to just let the ecu do its thing once your at the power level that lets you have the freedom you want. It's safer than just spinning and sliding endlessly. You just get nowhere.

Even the M2 has electronics aiding it.

No money to invest in the device and I'm pretty happy now. My car is powerful enough to spin 4th gear. It's just helped me to finally find out my car is doing what it was designed to do. Back in the day, the car was very easily unsafe to drive in normal get out in traffic situations. I use to want this back but not anymore.

If your getting braking activity, that's normal for our cars. Most people will never know it. You can't code the car from my experience to eliminate all aides. If I did, my car would be undrivable. Believe or not your is still getting some assistance. Our cars would wallow and spin all over the road with a tune in just about any gear.

I may upload a trace when I get time. Thanks for the feedback.
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      06-08-2018, 03:22 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
I gotta be honest. I've never gone to a track. I can make the car go sideways but don't practice it. I'm running MHD custom tune and xhp v3 which gives me a lot more freedom with car. I haven't found anything else to code out in the DSC module. But I don't really need it now with all the power I have. Even if I unplug the DSC module, I still get some type of cornering intervention. In my case, it's not just dsc. It's probably the DME. It's best to just let the ecu do its thing once your at the power level that lets you have the freedom you want. It's safer than just spinning and sliding endlessly. You just get nowhere.

Even the M2 has electronics aiding it.

No money to invest in the device and I'm pretty happy now. My car is powerful enough to spin 4th gear. It's just helped me to finally find out my car is doing what it was designed to do. Back in the day, the car was very easily unsafe to drive in normal get out in traffic situations. I use to want this back but not anymore.

If your getting braking activity, that's normal for our cars. Most people will never know it. You can't code the car from my experience to eliminate all aides. If I did, my car would be undrivable. Believe or not your is still getting some assistance. Our cars would wallow and spin all over the road with a tune in just about any gear.

I may upload a trace when I get time. Thanks for the feedback.
All of these functions and sub-functions are controlled by the DSC module. It is a different line of communication than the DME, but the DME does poll data FROM the DSC unit via can-bus communication for things like torque reduction. If you disconnect your DSC module there would be no steering, wheel speed, or brake line pressure data for the DME to poll as you suggest it's still doing...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Z...ew?usp=sharing

I have E9x/E8x specific BMW docs but not worth the time to dig up
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Last edited by bbnks2; 06-08-2018 at 03:28 PM..
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      06-08-2018, 04:39 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
All of these functions and sub-functions are controlled by the DSC module. It is a different line of communication than the DME, but the DME does poll data FROM the DSC unit via can-bus communication for things like torque reduction. If you disconnect your DSC module there would be no steering, wheel speed, or brake line pressure data for the DME to poll as you suggest it's still doing...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Z...ew?usp=sharing

I have E9x/E8x specific BMW docs but not worth the time to dig up
I agree with you on how it should work traditionally but I have a whole different experience. Once the DME and other modules lose communication from the DSC unit, other electronic protocols go into play. I can't say 100% why this is happening but it is. Some other forum members reported similar activity after coding or disconnecting the DSC unit. They get less intervention but cant completely get rid of it. BMW tells me that other modules can still see data from steering angle sensor and wheel speed sensors although the speedo may not work. Who knows! Lol! All I know is my car is driving just like the new BMWS are behaving which makes me know the software update I got a few years ago changed my setup.
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      09-08-2018, 04:52 PM   #146
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Hi,

I 'm hoping to find an expert who is willing to code our race car. I understand this is a skill and am willing to pay for the right expertise. I believe we have some of the same issues (slow throttle response when returning to throttle on deceleration). The car runs and wins in class so we're working around it, but we know we're leaving time on track. This is a 6 speed manual conversion 128i running BMW CCA rules, and preparing for the 25 hours of Thunderhill. Minimum drive line mods but a number of modules have been removed (airbag, entertainment, auto-transmission, rain sensor, TPMS). I'm comfortable with a lot, but this is outside of my wheel house. Car is in SoCal (Orange County).
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      10-16-2018, 12:47 PM   #147
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is the ediff disabled when the dsc is disabled by a long press of the dsc button?

when the big yellow dsc disabled symbol is on the dash
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      10-16-2018, 02:09 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
is the ediff disabled when the dsc is disabled by a long press of the dsc button?

when the big yellow dsc disabled symbol is on the dash
No, that simply disables both traction and stability control, the ediff remains active to help put power to the ground.
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      10-16-2018, 02:50 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
No, that simply disables both traction and stability control, the ediff remains active to help put power to the ground.
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Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
is the ediff disabled when the dsc is disabled by a long press of the dsc button?

when the big yellow dsc disabled symbol is on the dash
Also, ediff is not just the computer applying braking force to the slipping wheel. It's an integrated system that's designed to help keep the vehicle moving in the intended direction or the way you have the steering wheel pointed.

For example, if dsc is completely off, you can slide your car in a turn without the system stepping in to save you if your not applying throttle. However, If you apply throttle in a turn too fast and the car senses there will be traction loss, the system decides which axle power needs to be adjusted. Braking force from the brakes may be applied or engine braking via dme to reduce speed enough to gain traction. This logic goes a step further than just transferring all the power and torque to the other rear wheel that has traction. The idea is to keep both wheels in contact with the pavement as much as possible so no wheel is spinning out of control. As a result, staying on path moving forward as quickly as possible. This is where your tires come into play as well. Theres all type of safety nannies still active in the dme and tcu even with dsc off.
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      10-24-2018, 07:16 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by brakthru View Post
This logic goes a step further than just transferring all the power and torque to the other rear wheel that has traction. The idea is to keep both wheels in contact with the pavement as much as possible so no wheel is spinning out of control. As a result, staying on path moving forward as quickly as possible. This is where your tires come into play as well. Theres all type of safety nannies still active in the dme and tcu even with dsc off.
You are insinuating that you can't turn stability control off on an BMW. That's just not true. The intervention you feel should not be interpreted as stability control. It's not. E-diff function itself is basic wheel speed input. There is no YAW, steering angle, or other data being interpreted during E-diff intervention for the car to do the things you're claiming. A long press of the DSC button turns off all things like DSC, TC, CBC, and BMW's other functions of their traction control SYSTEM.

There ARE other nannies, but they don't have anything to do with stability control. Things like TCU torque cuts are to protect the transmission and have to do with DME load calculations. There are also other brake biasing functions still running related to ABS.
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      10-24-2018, 04:56 PM   #151
brakthru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
You are insinuating that you can't turn stability control off on an BMW. That's just not true. The intervention you feel should not be interpreted as stability control. It's not. E-diff function itself is basic wheel speed input. There is no YAW, steering angle, or other data being interpreted during E-diff intervention for the car to do the things you're claiming. A long press of the DSC button turns off all things like DSC, TC, CBC, and BMW's other functions of their traction control SYSTEM.

There ARE other nannies, but they don't have anything to do with stability control. Things like TCU torque cuts are to protect the transmission and have to do with DME load calculations. There are also other brake biasing functions still running related to ABS.
Your feedback is going to be limited to your personal experience just like mine. So, I won't discount what your are saying. However, there's no point in you attempting to explain what's going on with my vehicle and the vehicles ive driven. When I speak, it's from my personal experience and years of research since the DSC/DME software changes that BMW made to my car. I already know some cars will have less intervention and perhaps be able to turn all traction control off. Mine used to do the same thing.

BMW says my car is behaving properly and confirms the DME is still controlling power delivery and it may reduce that power when it wants even in traction events. It's not just to save mechanical parts, it's to save people and get the most out of a stable car. Of course, brake biasing and other modules and sensors will be used to some degree and maybe a lesser extent to attempt to correct what may appear to be human error when your veering off the road. BMW confirmed the dme still uses this information with dsc off particularly wheel speed and steering angle calculations.

I've driven several 2018 Bmws to force traction loss. Even with DSC off, some stability functions are still active. The performance we get out of the newer models is controlled performance, handling and power delivery. Controlled wheelspins. Not loose and out of control full power delivery in awkward or dangerous circumstances. DME, TCU and DSC parameters can be altered and have been on my car. It helped remove some torque limits and relaxed intervention but the dme still reduces torque when the wheels are slipping no matter what.

I've also tested.different steering angle coding and configurations. Each setup delivered either more brake biasing, pre-load and intervention or less. Power delivery was altered and directly connected to how the dme allowed the to car apply power in corners.

I've tested different kombi module configurations but this didn't lead to much accept a different dsc symbol.

After testing different jbbf module software flashes from previous years, I found that brake biasing and pre-tension was changed more to the front axle based on the update I was running at the time. This all made sense because jbbf is the chassis or body control module and central communication gateway to other modules. Everything is integrated and the push of a button doesn't turn it off. It must be programmed off which hasn't completely worked for some of us. On my car, there is a learning variable used to help the vehicle adapt to different road surfaces to determine how much power to allow to the wheels. So, this winter I get to run at full power on street tires and not fly off the road with some common sense driving in the mix. Lol! This is not possible without some computerized assistance at least not with my old setup. Im not saying the car won't lose traction but it will apply the power pretty well given the conditions.

Last edited by brakthru; 10-24-2018 at 05:16 PM..
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      10-25-2018, 09:52 PM   #152
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That's interesting about the JBBF.
It's a gateway that allows cross communication between various control units on different buses and I never knew it had any influence.

Normally, body control is referring to body electronics such as those inside the cabin mainly, rather than chassis/vehicle dynamics which I understand to be a DSC module thing and EDC on the E cars. F cars have the ICM in addition.
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      10-25-2018, 10:56 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juld0zer View Post
That's interesting about the JBBF.
It's a gateway that allows cross communication between various control units on different buses and I never knew it had any influence.

Normally, body control is referring to body electronics such as those inside the cabin mainly, rather than chassis/vehicle dynamics which I understand to be a DSC module thing and EDC on the E cars. F cars have the ICM in addition.
It's not called a chassis module as i stated. My mistake. I tried several old zb software numbers before coming across one that changed the brake biasing. I don't know much more beyond this. It was interesting learning how braking effects oversteer and understeer by controlling one axle more than the other. Cornering speeds can be increased with brake biasing. However, brake pretension gives the feel of a stiffer setup. The zb number I used probably wasn't for my car although its for the same hardware number. Maybe for a car with different weight distribution, build and suspension setup. Who knows.
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      10-26-2018, 05:22 AM   #154
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I do recall noticing more front brake DSC intervention and the DSC light coming on almost twice as often after i downgraded my DSC software. I don't recall which daten i used though. Maybe you need to create a new thread just for that revelation!
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