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      06-29-2015, 12:06 AM   #23
MuNkY6913
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ok. just read this thread only so forgive me if I'm asking dumb questions. what's the difference between this and jb4+back-end flashes? is this taking the place of both of those? so basically a cheap version of using Cobb. I know some N55 guys have to use Cobb to back-end flash. that screen shot of your phone looks like a not as nice version of the jb4 app. Is this just for the N55 crowd? I use the bb program and only had to buy a bt cable which I'm sure will come in handy in the future.
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      06-29-2015, 12:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
ok. just read this thread only so forgive me if I'm asking dumb questions. what's the difference between this and jb4+back-end flashes? is this taking the place of both of those? so basically a cheap version of using Cobb. I know some N55 guys have to use Cobb to back-end flash. that screen shot of your phone looks like a not as nice version of the jb4 app. Is this just for the N55 crowd? I use the bb program and only had to buy a bt cable which I'm sure will come in handy in the future.
yup, it's like an affordable version of the Cobb tune - it's a full ECU flash with ability to apply new/custom maps. there are also maps available for ppl who already run a JB4. I'd look at the thread on e90 or n54tech if you want the technical nitty gritty

the app is for n54. cables were <$40 and definitely handy to have for code reading and clearing at a minimum.
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      06-29-2015, 07:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dbchun
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
ok. just read this thread only so forgive me if I'm asking dumb questions. what's the difference between this and jb4+back-end flashes? is this taking the place of both of those? so basically a cheap version of using Cobb. I know some N55 guys have to use Cobb to back-end flash. that screen shot of your phone looks like a not as nice version of the jb4 app. Is this just for the N55 crowd? I use the bb program and only had to buy a bt cable which I'm sure will come in handy in the future.
yup, it's like an affordable version of the Cobb tune - it's a full ECU flash with ability to apply new/custom maps. there are also maps available for ppl who already run a JB4. I'd look at the thread on e90 or n54tech if you want the technical nitty gritty

the app is for n54. cables were <$40 and definitely handy to have for code reading and clearing at a minimum.
ok. that makes sense. I'm pretty happy with the free bb program and updates. the jb4 app lets me read codes anyways. I guess this would be good option for people not wanting the piggy back. thanks!
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      06-29-2015, 08:09 AM   #26
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Her I go again showing my ignorance. What is MHD and what is bb program? All comments are welcome and some expected.
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      06-29-2015, 08:46 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SocHermit(2) View Post
Her I go again showing my ignorance. What is MHD and what is bb program? All comments are welcome and some expected.
If you don't already have BB, forget about BB. MHD is superior, cheaper, and easier and they both accomplish the same thing.

MHD will let you do 2 things. Either you have a JB4 already, and then MHD will let you flash a "backend" map which will combine a flash tune specifically made for the JB4 with your JB4 for the best of both worlds.

OR if for whatever (IMO FOOLISH!) reason you really don't want a JB4 and you are hell-bent on flash only tune, this will let you flash a tune made by Wedge to your car. So for those of you without the Jb4 the MHD will flash a Cobb style tune but WAY better. More power and $400 or so cheaper than the Cobb.
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      06-29-2015, 09:46 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by darkrom
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Originally Posted by SocHermit(2) View Post
Her I go again showing my ignorance. What is MHD and what is bb program? All comments are welcome and some expected.
If you don't already have BB, forget about BB. MHD is superior, cheaper, and easier and they both accomplish the same thing.

MHD will let you do 2 things. Either you have a JB4 already, and then MHD will let you flash a "backend" map which will combine a flash tune specifically made for the JB4 with your JB4 for the best of both worlds.

OR if for whatever (IMO FOOLISH!) reason you really don't want a JB4 and you are hell-bent on flash only tune, this will let you flash a tune made by Wedge to your car. So for those of you without the Jb4 the MHD will flash a Cobb style tune but WAY better. More power and $400 or so cheaper than the Cobb.
why is mhd cheaper and superior to bb? bb is a free app and free flashes. only expense is the bt cable which comes in handy with other things. are the mhd flashes free? they both so the same thing otherwise right? specially when paired with jb4.
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      06-29-2015, 10:00 AM   #29
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Is BB and MHD names of products or names of businesses? The only mod I have is PPK1 and, at this time still under warranty, do not want to fool with any wiring installs.
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      06-29-2015, 10:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
why is mhd cheaper and superior to bb? bb is a free app and free flashes. only expense is the bt cable which comes in handy with other things. are the mhd flashes free? they both so the same thing otherwise right? specially when paired with jb4.
Just used MHD for the back end flash. Cost me $100 all in (vs $180 for bb) and took 38 minutes start to finish. Back end flashes will always be free. MHD has knock and torque tables unlocked so far, which I believe has been ported to the bb flash bins, but MHD is where the innovation is happening now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SocHermit(2) View Post
Is BB and MHD names of products or names of businesses? The only mod I have is PPK1 and, at this time still under warranty, do not want to fool with any wiring installs.
*********** flash vs MHD flash. Names of software.
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      06-29-2015, 12:25 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkrom View Post
OR if for whatever (IMO FOOLISH!) reason you really don't want a JB4 and you are hell-bent on flash only tune, this will let you flash a tune made by Wedge to your car. So for those of you without the Jb4 the MHD will flash a Cobb style tune but WAY better. More power and $400 or so cheaper than the Cobb.
i'll have to read up more on this JB4+flash combo as you sound very enthusiastic about it. going with MHD first was a no brainer given the cost, JB4 significantly raises the total investment so curious to know what else it brings to the table

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
why is mhd cheaper and superior to bb? bb is a free app and free flashes. only expense is the bt cable which comes in handy with other things. are the mhd flashes free? they both so the same thing otherwise right? specially when paired with jb4.
i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other, cost-wise they seem similar as BT cables cost more initially while the flashes are free vs. MHD which uses a cheaper cable but needs more add-on purchases to get equivalent capabilities

perhaps once someone can get a true dyno comparison done ppl can start debating if one map is better than another

one confounding factor is that everyones car seems to be setup so differently. and in particular, the members to jump on these new offerings seem to already be running JB4, E85, or upgraded turbos, which makes it harder to evaluate all the options for someone stock

Quote:
Originally Posted by SocHermit(2) View Post
Is BB and MHD names of products or names of businesses? The only mod I have is PPK1 and, at this time still under warranty, do not want to fool with any wiring installs.
all names of software products, no wiring installs like JB4. i no longer have warranty so i was less worried about detectability but i believe the option to flash back to stock ECU exists for both options
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      06-29-2015, 12:58 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dbchun
i'll have to read up more on this JB4+flash combo as you sound very enthusiastic about it. going with MHD first was a no brainer given the cost, JB4 significantly raises the total investment so curious to know what else it brings to the table
the jb4 stacked with either back-end is awesome. the jb4 brings loads of extras with it and the back-end transfers over a lot if the control back to the computer. but you still get to use all the map switching and can easily bring the power up as you get supporting mods. keeping the jb4 was really important to me since I use the app and have the meth integration. now everything is upgradable right from your phone as well. which is also free. can't say enough good things about jb4. and the bms back-end flashes get updates for free. I think stacking is the way to go unless your someone that can make your own flashes. that's way above my pay grade.
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      06-29-2015, 02:23 PM   #33
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How can people say the MHD flash is WAY better than a COBB flash if nobody has done any back to back comparison runs on a dyno?
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      06-29-2015, 02:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
the jb4 stacked with either back-end is awesome. the jb4 brings loads of extras with it and the back-end transfers over a lot if the control back to the computer. but you still get to use all the map switching and can easily bring the power up as you get supporting mods. keeping the jb4 was really important to me since I use the app and have the meth integration. now everything is upgradable right from your phone as well. which is also free. can't say enough good things about jb4. and the bms back-end flashes get updates for free. I think stacking is the way to go unless your someone that can make your own flashes. that's way above my pay grade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
why is mhd cheaper and superior to bb? bb is a free app and free flashes. only expense is the bt cable which comes in handy with other things. are the mhd flashes free? they both so the same thing otherwise right? specially when paired with jb4.
Well yes BB is free, but the cable is $180 or so. The JB4 backend flashes are free, then you need to buy the flasher module which is I believe $80. So for just backend flashing you need a cheap cable + 80. Its not a ton cheaper I guess. I just feel like BB is the older software, and it definitely takes a lot longer to backup the original. The backup takes under 10 seconds with MHD. MHD has that upgraded race logic as well. BB isn't a bad piece of software or anything, I just can't see someone with no cable bothering with it at this point.
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      06-29-2015, 02:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkrom
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
the jb4 stacked with either back-end is awesome. the jb4 brings loads of extras with it and the back-end transfers over a lot if the control back to the computer. but you still get to use all the map switching and can easily bring the power up as you get supporting mods. keeping the jb4 was really important to me since I use the app and have the meth integration. now everything is upgradable right from your phone as well. which is also free. can't say enough good things about jb4. and the bms back-end flashes get updates for free. I think stacking is the way to go unless your someone that can make your own flashes. that's way above my pay grade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
why is mhd cheaper and superior to bb? bb is a free app and free flashes. only expense is the bt cable which comes in handy with other things. are the mhd flashes free? they both so the same thing otherwise right? specially when paired with jb4.
Well yes BB is free, but the cable is $180 or so. The JB4 backend flashes are free, then you need to buy the flasher module which is I believe $80. So for just backend flashing you need a cheap cable + 80. Its not a ton cheaper I guess. I just feel like BB is the older software, and it definitely takes a lot longer to backup the original. The backup takes under 10 seconds with MHD. MHD has that upgraded race logic as well. BB isn't a bad piece of software or anything, I just can't see someone with no cable bothering with it at this point.
I see that. the only thing you need to flash with bb is the cable. and people sell those on here all the time. yes, it does take a long time to get your original bin but after that it's under 2 mins. there is no purchase of a flasher module. just the cable and a computer. I even have a regional thread saying anyone that wants to drive to my house can use the cable for free.99 since it doesn't require a vin lock on it. you can even buy someone's cable that has been vin locked for really cheap and use it. I would like a custom tune for my car and it might be worth checking out the mhd. but since I already have my bin and have bb software it's probably easier to get wedge or whoever to write me a flash for bb. but for newcomers it seems like a valid option. I might even try this if I can borrow a cord from someone and see what the logs tell me.
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      06-29-2015, 03:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM58NDS 135i View Post
How can people say the MHD flash is WAY better than a COBB flash if nobody has done any back to back comparison runs on a dyno?
i agree. purpose of this thread was to document the steps needed to install the MHD flasher and build awareness of this affordable option to those with n54 seeking a tune solution.

people seem to get very passionate advocating different product options here - which i totally understand - i'm sure a lot of thought and consideration was put into the purchase decision process and there's only good intentions trying to help

consumers have different priorities when purchasing, whether that be brand perception, pure technical performance/hard numbers, stress on existing components, financial costs, or ease of install, there are so many factors to take into consideration

from a data/evidence-based perspective, i'd LOVE to see an apples-to-apples comparison. hopefully some data will start to flow in as more people start using these flashes.
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      06-29-2015, 03:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
I see that. the only thing you need to flash with bb is the cable. and people sell those on here all the time. yes, it does take a long time to get your original bin but after that it's under 2 mins. there is no purchase of a flasher module. just the cable and a computer. I even have a regional thread saying anyone that wants to drive to my house can use the cable for free.99 since it doesn't require a vin lock on it. you can even buy someone's cable that has been vin locked for really cheap and use it. I would like a custom tune for my car and it might be worth checking out the mhd. but since I already have my bin and have bb software it's probably easier to get wedge or whoever to write me a flash for bb. but for newcomers it seems like a valid option. I might even try this if I can borrow a cord from someone and see what the logs tell me.
Really? Just plug in the cable and that's it?

You need a laptop with at least an i5 processor, so add another $500. You also need to spend a good amount of time getting everything together, like tunerpro, bb flasher, the correct bin, read all the material, etc... and you STILL run the chance of screwing up your DME.

Or you could buy a $40 android device, and a $20 cable, and $99 for the MHD android software, and bam - DONE! Literally plug and play.

And for those who have android cell phones, I only had to buy the $20 cable and the flasher software.

Try not to act like BB is cheaper, because most people do not have a capable laptop in this day and age, nor do they want to lug it around and f' with all the hassle with the aforementioned in setting it up. However, many have an android device of some sort.

Quit trying to sell your JB4 to everyone in this thread; I thought you were happy with it? Btw, most of those who have MHD chunked the Jb4 because it was pointless to have both, that is, unless you are running meth or an upgrade set of turbos. Otherwise, it's a problematic POS.
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      06-29-2015, 04:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by n54door

Really? Just plug in the cable and that's it?

-you can roll your eyes all you want. the only thing I bought was a bt cable and presto. I was done. I had to read the very first page on the other forums and follow the directions, most problems are user error, and it was flashed. all files provided in said forum thread, first post.


You need a laptop with at least an i5 processor, so add another $500.

-I have a computer my company gave me over 5 years ago. I'm not sure where it was before that but it definitely wasn't new.


You also need to spend a good amount of time getting everything together, like tunerpro, bb flasher, the correct bin, read all the material, etc... and you STILL run the chance of screwing up your DME.

-all of those programs and bins are provided in the very first post of previously mentioned thread. so are you trying to imply that there is absolutely no way a drastic voltage drop would or unintended removal of
$20 cable would in any way have any affect on the write? if so that's a very good product. 100% guarantee to not ever mess anything up during the write.



Or you could buy a $40 android device, and a $20 cable, and $99 for the MHD android software, and bam - DONE! Literally plug and play.

And for those who have android cell phones, I only had to buy the $20 cable and the flasher software.

Try not to act like BB is cheaper, because most people do not have a capable laptop in this day and age, nor do they want to lug it around and f' with all the hassle with the aforementioned in setting it up. However, many have an android device of some sort.

-what do you mean lug it around? do you take your car into the middle of a field to flash it? your supposed to do that at your house. the setup is ridiculously easy. not sure what kind of horrible experience you've had with the bb software but that's completely different than what I've had.



Quit trying to sell your JB4 to everyone in this thread; I thought you were happy with it? Btw, most of those who have MHD chunked the Jb4 because it was pointless to have both, that is, unless you are running meth or an upgrade set of turbos. Otherwise, it's a problematic POS.

-I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. it sells itself. someone asked about it and it's a great device for people going from stock to fbo and beyond. the gauge hijacking, no lift shift, rev limiter, shift light, waste gate adaptations, 1st and 2nd gear boost limiting and code reading and logging, meth integration and meth scaling, to name a few, all on the fly through the steering wheel or my phone or tablet are fantastic. those are completely worth it. it's a tool that I've used for years now and continue to works impeccably. you must have been one of the user error cases and blamed the device. I like to actually contribute to the community rather attack other people's opinions. I even said I would be willing to try it. get over yourself. if someone asks what the jb4 stacked is all about I'm going to tell them the experience I had with it. go troll somewhere else. this is my first time reading anything about mhd so I had to ask questions and can only relate it to what I know in order to understand it.
way to contribute.
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      06-29-2015, 05:09 PM   #39
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I actually just read the first couple of posts from your thread in 2013 about the open flash tablet. saying how you didn't like the jb4 g4. you acknowledge it's different than the g5. first you actually praise it. so why the hate towards it and anyone talking about it. it's come a long way since the g4. everyone should know all the options out there. no need to get pissy when someone talks about something you may not choose to install on your car. jb4 has been in my car, from g4 to g5 with backend, from ~280 to 405whp and delivers power when I want it. can't say enough good things about it.
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      06-29-2015, 06:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM58NDS 135i View Post
How can people say the MHD flash is WAY better than a COBB flash if nobody has done any back to back comparison runs on a dyno?
Because the tuners that wrote the tune for the MHD standalone flashes are the same ones who wrote some of the higher power COBB protunes. So you could buy a COBB and have the mediocre included tunes, or you can use COBB and pay again for a protune. Or just cut out the expensive middle man and get the tune from them for way cheaper and with more options. The last 2 updates I saw for standalone MHD flashes were wastegate rattle fix, and cold start noise reduction. Just constant development vs COBB who stopped supporting the platform.

Wedge makes the stock MHD tunes. Wedge tunes on the COBB are better than the cobb tunes. This is from a jb4 user so you know I am playing no favorites since I don't want to limit myself to a flash only option and lose features, but if I had to I'd prefer the wedge tune via MHD hands down.
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      06-30-2015, 11:25 AM   #41
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Quote:
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way to contribute.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNkY6913 View Post
n54door
I actually just read the first couple of posts from your thread in 2013 about the open flash tablet. saying how you didn't like the jb4 g4. you acknowledge it's different than the g5. first you actually praise it. so why the hate towards it and anyone talking about it. it's come a long way since the g4. everyone should know all the options out there. no need to get pissy when someone talks about something you may not choose to install on your car. jb4 has been in my car, from g4 to g5 with backend, from ~280 to 405whp and delivers power when I want it. can't say enough good things about it.
Cool, glad I was able to rough up your feathers enough for you to research all of my posts as a way to try to find something to help further a dead end argument. There really are other things in life that are more productive than reading posts from 2013.

The G4 was not good at modulating boost. The OpenFlash tablet was, however, it did not perform well up top, so I got rid of it right about the time the G5 ISO was released. It was better, so yes, I praised it because it was the best option available.

Now, MHD is the best option, so I praise it as well.

The JB4 G5 is is the same as the G4, only with better boost control. Sure there are a bunch of little options that are scattered all over the most non user-friendly interface I have ever seen from a legit company, but none of them matter if you do not use METH or boost outside of 22psi.

Not pissy at all, just annoyed by the all ad-nauseum in your posts here in this thread. Have you every tried a good flash tune? This thread is simply about that, not piggyback systems. My guess is you have not.
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      06-30-2015, 11:42 AM   #42
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this is cool, so the stage 1 map that was purchased comes with both stage 1 and stage 1+

stage 1+ requires FMIC and is supposed to be much more aggressive

now i know what's next hehe
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      06-30-2015, 12:14 PM   #43
MuNkY6913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Thanks!



Cool, glad I was able to rough up your feathers enough for you to research all of my posts as a way to try to find something to help further a dead end argument. There really are other things in life that are more productive than reading posts from 2013.

The G4 was not good at modulating boost. The OpenFlash tablet was, however, it did not perform well up top, so I got rid of it right about the time the G5 ISO was released. It was better, so yes, I praised it because it was the best option available.

Now, MHD is the best option, so I praise it as well.

The JB4 G5 is is the same as the G4, only with better boost control. Sure there are a bunch of little options that are scattered all over the most non user-friendly interface I have ever seen from a legit company, but none of them matter if you do not use METH or boost outside of 22psi.

Not pissy at all, just annoyed by the all ad-nauseum in your posts here in this thread. Have you every tried a good flash tune? This thread is simply about that, not piggyback systems. My guess is you have not.
Of course I haven't tried flash only, you dont have to guess, i've said i have had the JB4 for years, from stock power levels to now. You are pissy. The sad thing is you havent made any good argument to why you started on me in the first place. The "OP" said he wondered what all was included with the JB4 and backend flash. so i responded. It seems you were just looking for somewhere to throw in anti-JB4 comments. the interface is perfectly fine in terms of user friendly. as long as you read the directions on how to use it.

myself and another member were discussing what was included with MHD vs others and you go full bore PMS on me and tell me to stop trying to sell the JB4. What the hell is that? all i did was discuss something others already were and i even said i would try this alternative. your not making any sense. the conversations were coming to an end anyways and you think you have to put your non-informative statement in there.

i'm starting to think you dont even read the entire posts. i listed many options the jb4 has that some people might find very valuable. You've wasted more of everyones time with your "I hate JB4 because I cant figure it out " ramblings than you should have. My car performs just as well as a flashed car. This is just getting stupid. i'm out.
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      06-30-2015, 01:16 PM   #44
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I went from Stage 2+ on COBB to a custom MHD Wedge Stage 2 tune and car pulls way harder and smoother shifting with better MPG somehow (by 0.8mpg). I'll have dyno numbers on Friday, stay 'tuned'
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