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      12-27-2013, 11:17 AM   #45
TheSt|G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksport View Post
Yes and no. The bearings were "upgraded", but so was the pressure relief and the cold RPM limiter. My 01 had the "faulty" bearings as you say, but I never had a problem with them...Blackstone labs analyzed every one of my oil changes and all reports came back as close to perfect as you could get...it was entirely possible to have an early S54 and have the rod bearings enjoy a long and healthy life...if you took the time to properly warm the engine before putting any stress on it.
Any engine should be properly warmed before use. There are tons that had just that treatment and still failed. Hence the recall.
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      12-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Any engine should be properly warmed before use. There are tons that had just that treatment and still failed. Hence the recall.
Go back and read my last post, I added an extra line...many experts believe that BMW made the rod bearings too narrow, in an effort to keep friction losses at a minimum. They also believe that the "fix" was nothing more than slightly more clearance, along with the RPM limiter and pressure relief adjustment. But my point still stands...far and away, the driver is the one who decides if his rod bearings will live or die...mine lived a long life and will continue with the new owner...even if some people consider them "faulty".
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      12-27-2013, 11:55 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksport View Post
Go back and read my last post, I added an extra line...many experts believe that BMW made the rod bearings too narrow, in an effort to keep friction losses at a minimum. They also believe that the "fix" was nothing more than slightly more clearance, along with the RPM limiter and pressure relief adjustment. But my point still stands...far and away, the driver is the one who decides if his rod bearings will live or die...mine lived a long life and will continue with the new owner...even if some people consider them "faulty".
There are some excellent surface treatments you can do to them now too to make them borderline invincible.
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      12-27-2013, 01:45 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksport View Post
Oh I have the letter, trust me...When the S54 first came out in 01, both in the M3 and the M roadster, many of the engines quickly developed rod bearing failure...BMW had spec'ed special Castrol 10w60 oil. This oil must be carefully warmed up, and also the pressure relief valve must allow for adequate bypass to keep the pressure from sky-rocketing with a cold engine and a high-revving idiot behind the wheel. These guys would unload the M3's from the boat, hitting 8500rpm before parking them. The rod bearings were shot before they hit the dealers. BMW fixed the problem with a more "appropriate" pressure relief valve and a "cold-engine" RPM limiter, to keep brain-dead, no-nothing idiots from blowing up their S54's because they were too stupid to warm them up. Very important tip: It takes 8 miles of driving to bring the oil up to temperature. Forget water temp, the water can be at running temp, and the oil still cold....
Yikes. No. The car was not speced with 10w 60 initially. That was only after the bearing issues, although they were not oil related. And while a GREAT OIL, TWS isn't "special". It was in existence on the market before the S54. BMW was being extra cautious by "requiring" it for S54s after the bearings issues.

Plenty of people stuck with the original 10w-30 spec, plenty use other oils. I've never seen in my years of E46 ownership a single engine failure whcih could be traced to oil.

For 110k miles, almost 100 track days, I've run maybe 25% TWS, but mostly M1 15w50 or Lubromoly 10w60. My cousin has run 10w-40 in his for the last 8 years.

Very much mis-understaning about the "requirement" of 10w-60. Again, not recommending you stray from the recommendation, as it's a very good oil (and if your car was still under warranty, of course). But there's nothing "special" about it, as it pertains to the S54. In large, that motor is a freaking iron-block freight train (VANOS issues aside), and doesn't require any "special" oil. Just a good oil, especially for high RPM running.




To the OPs post, I'm mostly the other way. I've found after years and years of tracking, you stress-crack OEM rotors just as quickly as you do $30 generics (maybe 6-7 track days on stock-sized rotors and track pads on an E46 M3 or 135) before the stress cracks are big enough to catch your finger nail, and should be tossed. SCCA Vette guys buy generic blanks BY THE PALLET for this very reason.

Can't say I've seen too big of a different in street longevity either. And certainly not enough to warranty the price difference.

Even if you have to replace your $30 rotors 3 times as often it's still much cheaper. And in reality, they tend to wear just about the same.

So, while there have been a lot of opinions for very expensive chunks of iron, here's one from the other camp. Spend your money elsewhere.

Centric blanks from Rock-Auto or the like (premiums if you don't feel like painting your own hat, regular if you will take the time to do so).
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      12-27-2013, 02:13 PM   #49
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Awesome thread drift. I learned a lot!

Time to do some price research on reputable aftermarket options vs. OEM
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      12-27-2013, 02:31 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
In large, that motor is a freaking iron-block freight train (VANOS issues aside), and doesn't require any "special" oil. Just a good oil, especially for high RPM running.


To the OPs post, I'm mostly the other way. I've found after years and years of tracking, you stress-crack OEM rotors just as quickly as you do $30 generics (maybe 6-7 track days on stock-sized rotors and track pads on an E46 M3 or 135) before the stress cracks are big enough to catch your finger nail, and should be tossed. SCCA Vette guys buy generic blanks BY THE PALLET for this very reason.

Even if you have to replace your $30 rotors 3 times as often it's still much cheaper. And in reality, they tend to wear just about the same.

You are DEAD on about the rotors, Premature...run cheap rotors till they stress crack or warp, then toss them....cast iron is cast iron.

And yes, the S54 is freaking freight train....just with very narrow rod bearings.
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      12-27-2013, 03:22 PM   #51
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A good read on 10w60:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=295656
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      12-27-2013, 04:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Centric blanks from Rock-Auto or the like (premiums if you don't feel like painting your own hat, regular if you will take the time to do so).
I think you can get cryogenic treated Centric blanks for pretty reasonable prices. Should last pretty long for a DD and be a good value.
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      12-27-2013, 06:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksport View Post
Oh I have the letter, trust me...When the S54 first came out in 01, both in the M3 and the M roadster, many of the engines quickly developed rod bearing failure...BMW had spec'ed special Castrol 10w60 oil. This oil must be carefully warmed up, and also the pressure relief valve must allow for adequate bypass to keep the pressure from sky-rocketing with a cold engine and a high-revving idiot behind the wheel. These guys would unload the M3's from the boat, hitting 8500rpm before parking them. The rod bearings were shot before they hit the dealers. BMW fixed the problem with a more "appropriate" pressure relief valve and a "cold-engine" RPM limiter, to keep brain-dead, no-nothing idiots from blowing up their S54's because they were too stupid to warm them up. Very important tip: It takes 8 miles of driving to bring the oil up to temperature. Forget water temp, the water can be at running temp, and the oil still cold....
Yikes. No. The car was not speced with 10w 60 initially. That was only after the bearing issues, although they were not oil related. And while a GREAT OIL, TWS isn't "special". It was in existence on the market before the S54. BMW was being extra cautious by "requiring" it for S54s after the bearings issues.

Plenty of people stuck with the original 10w-30 spec, plenty use other oils. I've never seen in my years of E46 ownership a single engine failure whcih could be traced to oil.

For 110k miles, almost 100 track days, I've run maybe 25% TWS, but mostly M1 15w50 or Lubromoly 10w60. My cousin has run 10w-40 in his for the last 8 years.

Very much mis-understaning about the "requirement" of 10w-60. Again, not recommending you stray from the recommendation, as it's a very good oil (and if your car was still under warranty, of course). But there's nothing "special" about it, as it pertains to the S54. In large, that motor is a freaking iron-block freight train (VANOS issues aside), and doesn't require any "special" oil. Just a good oil, especially for high RPM running.




To the OPs post, I'm mostly the other way. I've found after years and years of tracking, you stress-crack OEM rotors just as quickly as you do $30 generics (maybe 6-7 track days on stock-sized rotors and track pads on an E46 M3 or 135) before the stress cracks are big enough to catch your finger nail, and should be tossed. SCCA Vette guys buy generic blanks BY THE PALLET for this very reason.

Can't say I've seen too big of a different in street longevity either. And certainly not enough to warranty the price difference.

Even if you have to replace your $30 rotors 3 times as often it's still much cheaper. And in reality, they tend to wear just about the same.

So, while there have been a lot of opinions for very expensive chunks of iron, here's one from the other camp. Spend your money elsewhere.

Centric blanks from Rock-Auto or the like (premiums if you don't feel like painting your own hat, regular if you will take the time to do so).
Excellent post.

I stocked up on 10w-60 because I got it for $5/liter. No way I'm paying full price on TWS.

Plus I was still under CPO until this past August.
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