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      08-22-2015, 08:36 AM   #1
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First Hand Impressions Needed: TC Kline S/A vs Ohlins R&T vs ST XTA

OK, I'm at the end of my tether on research and really haven't uncovered much. There's a little out there comparing the TCK S/A to the Ohlins DFV, but nothing on the ST XTA in regard to those two. I'm completely torn three ways to sunday here and need help from you guys to make up my mind one way or other.

I'm going to change from my Bilstein B6/Swift R setup to a full coil setup this winter. This car is my daily driver, though it does see track a couple times a year, and though it rarely happens thanks to time, I'd like to AutoX it once a month. So it gets put through its paces in every way possible.

So if anyone out there feels like sharing, let me have it. Ohlins are on the upper end of what I want to spend, and I think I'd want to do the rear Swift spring on them, making them actually a little more than I'd want to spend. That's my only reservation on them.

Thanks in advance!
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      08-22-2015, 12:02 PM   #2
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If you go TCKline, look into HP Autosports' version, its a TCK S/A kit with Swift linear spring replacement. Im going to TCK soon and recently found the HPA/TCK coilovers to be a much better option. I was thinking 400/700 rates, as I am in the same boat as you, DD with track days when possible.

Let us know what you settle with, and please do a detailed review for future 1ers
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      08-22-2015, 01:31 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Tchao View Post
If you go TCKline, look into HP Autosports' version, its a TCK S/A kit with Swift linear spring replacement. Im going to TCK soon and recently found the HPA/TCK coilovers to be a much better option. I was thinking 400/700 rates, as I am in the same boat as you, DD with track days when possible.

Let us know what you settle with, and please do a detailed review for future 1ers
TCK is pretty attractive per price point and capability, but the dual flow damper by ohlins has me captivated, and I don't know enough about the ST XTA to rule it out. Supposedly it's a KW v2 body with linear springs (but what spring rate???) and a clubsport camber plate, which in theory should put it on par with the other two. But very few reviews on it, if any really.
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      08-22-2015, 01:50 PM   #4
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Unless you have access to shock dynos, tuning a double adjustable is going to be messy for normal individuals, so you most likely won't gain any benifits out it it. In my eyes it's not worth the price.

Plus, most D/A shocks are Motorsport quality, meaning it's very precise, and requires rebuilds often. Koni yellow S/A are DD proven.
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      08-22-2015, 02:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchao View Post
Unless you have access to shock dynos, tuning a double adjustable is going to be messy for normal individuals, so you most likely won't gain any benifits out it it. In my eyes it's not worth the price.

Plus, most D/A shocks are Motorsport quality, meaning it's very precise, and requires rebuilds often. Koni yellow S/A are DD proven.
Yup, understand all that. I don't view Ohlins R&T to be of the same in that situation, which is the reason it's the only compression adjustable damper on the list.
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      08-22-2015, 03:47 PM   #6
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If you choose st xta buy cabrio version especially if you have upgraded rsfb. I sent email to kw tehnic support about spring ratios for st xta.

Hello,



the difference between both coilovers is the rear spring.



18220839 is using the “2012” with a spring rate of 82N/mm and the kit 18220862(cabrio) is using the “2017” with 103N/mm.

Front is linear spring 70N/mm - i think this is from clubsport coils spring

So st xta cabrio version 18220862 springs rates about 400/588 llbs/in , rear springs are progressive.

Last edited by MDMA 135i; 08-22-2015 at 05:55 PM..
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      08-22-2015, 05:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDMA 135i View Post
If you choose st xta buy cabrio version especially if you have upgraded rsfb. I sent email to kw tehnic support about spring ratios for st xta.

Hello,



the difference between both coilovers is the rear spring.



18220839 is using the “2012” with a spring rate of 82N/mm and the kit 18220862(cabrio) is using the “2017” with 103N/mm.

Front is linear spring 70N/mm - i think this is from clubsport coils spring

So st xta cabrio version 18220862 springs rates about 400/570 lbs/in , rear springs are progressive.
Interesting. Much more in line with what TCK uses for stock rates (400/588 vs 400/600) than the Ohlins (362/400), though I'm unsure of how the KWv2 shock body compares to the Koni S/A in terms of internal valving. Does it matter?

Also, what have you found the minimum "drop" is with those XTAs? I've read it's 1.4", but that seems rather a lot.
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      08-23-2015, 08:21 AM   #8
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I advise you to read my short review of the ST XTA here. Then, you can go on my topic and read the last review after tracking my car there.

In addition, you will see the minimum drop on the first link (that's pretty high IMO). Then, I decided to lower them. You can see the actual result on my thread, on this post.

I don't have any problems for riding on the street (comfortable enought and with the actual setup I founded, I can run like a maniac on little backroads and let them perform) neither on the track (perform very good).

In addition, I confirm you that the kit is composed by KW v2 dampers, KW CS front linear springs, rear progressive ones. I didn't know the rear spring were much more hard on the cab compared to the coupé. Very interesting point if I want to upgrade them one day ...

Remember even on the KW ClubSport, you won't have linear springs rear.

I really and strongly advise you this kit!
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      08-23-2015, 01:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidiman View Post
I advise you to read my short review of the ST XTA here. Then, you can go on my topic and read the last review after tracking my car there.

In addition, you will see the minimum drop on the first link (that's pretty high IMO). Then, I decided to lower them. You can see the actual result on my thread, on this post.

I don't have any problems for riding on the street (comfortable enought and with the actual setup I founded, I can run like a maniac on little backroads and let them perform) neither on the track (perform very good).

In addition, I confirm you that the kit is composed by KW v2 dampers, KW CS front linear springs, rear progressive ones. I didn't know the rear spring were much more hard on the cab compared to the coupé. Very interesting point if I want to upgrade them one day ...

Remember even on the KW ClubSport, you won't have linear springs rear.

I really and strongly advise you this kit!
So the camber plates are pretty noisy? That's the big reason I don't have any yet. My roads are in really terrible shape and I can't tolerate something that is going to rattle and bang over every drop and bump and pothole. I'm also not interested in having to service them.

You mention fender to wheel center distances. I also noticed you have a 120d, and I am not familiar with its stock equipment. Did you have the M-sport suspension stock, or the non-sport? What was your stock ride height? What is it now after everything has settled completely?

Hard to compare handling between stock and a proper coil setup as stock is pretty poor. Even my current setup has me wanting properly matched dampers and spring rates, hence the decision.
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      08-23-2015, 05:37 PM   #10
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Camber plates aren't noisy at all! You don't hear them when you're driving Only moment they will remind you they are on your car will be when you will take a pothole turning your steering wheel, that's all. I'm very satisfied of them as I didn't want something noisy!

Before, I was on M-sport suspensions, then I put the Eibach Prokit springs and finally the XTA. You can follow the ride height on the pics, but I should mesure it now. As far as I know, I cannot put one finger front and rear.

Not hard at all to compare the ride quality : OEM is like sh*t, dampers plus sport spring are better and coilovers are the right choice if you want to track your car! Second solution for street driving and some other stuff will be enough if you only drive on the road.

Don't hesitate to ask me other questions
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      08-23-2015, 06:17 PM   #11
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Fidiman
Great, thanks for clearing up the misconception on the camber plates. On ride height, are you at max height now, and would you mind taking a close up of the fender and tire front and rear so I can see better? Your black wheels look great but it makes it very hard to see how low you actually are and how your wheels and tires fit. On another note, hows the lean in the front if you let the throttle out mid corner? Do these coils help maintain composure or does it flop? Also curious about rear bounce (rebound setting?) and if you had any issues with inner wheel clearance.

Hoping to hear from someone on the TCKs. Based on responses the ST XTA seems like a great option for a DD/light track duty car.
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      08-23-2015, 08:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
....snip....

Hard to compare handling between stock and a proper coil setup as stock is pretty poor. Even my current setup has me wanting properly matched dampers and spring rates, hence the decision.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is exactly what drives me crazy about mix and match springs and dampers.....can you elaborate on what part of your setup feels mismatched? Underdamped or springs too soft or...?

I'm doing some research for a fixed configuration matched spring and damper set with 10mm max drop from m-sport, and OEM+ type ride and handling for a 98% road driven /DD car. Was thinking the full BMW PE kit with dampers, springs, etc, but not many people with this setup. Also considering an attempt at matching swift springs and a damper. Would the B8 dampers be a better match to the swift springs in your opinion?
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      08-23-2015, 11:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is exactly what drives me crazy about mix and match springs and dampers.....can you elaborate on what part of your setup feels mismatched? Underdamped or springs too soft or...?

I'm doing some research for a fixed configuration matched spring and damper set with 10mm max drop from m-sport, and OEM+ type ride and handling for a 98% road driven /DD car. Was thinking the full BMW PE kit with dampers, springs, etc, but not many people with this setup. Also considering an attempt at matching swift springs and a damper. Would the B8 dampers be a better match to the swift springs in your opinion?
My setup is great, but it could definitely use more spring, especially in the rear.
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      08-24-2015, 02:33 AM   #14
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No problem, with pleasure!

Speaking about the camber plates, some are used to rattle, but KW (I will use the name of this brand because ST XTA coilovers are made from them, in addition, I received mine from Germany) has really well engineered their stuff. As far as I can remember, my friend had some GroundControl (or whatever) and they were very noisy.

For the ride height, I'm not at all at the max. I have more or less 31,5cm from the middle of the centre cap till the arch front and rear.
As far as I remember, I left 0,8cm at the rear perch and 1,5cm front. I don't have the value in mind anymore, I should check.
I will verify tonight if I have some time and will take some photos. I think on the last pics of my thread, you would be able to differentiate the wheel, the tire and the arch.

Cannot respond to that, I'm used not to stop accelerating in the mid corner xD The capacity of these coils to go fast and safe is quite impressive. Even when the ground get harsh and irregular, you're still able to push your car without any problem of stability, traction or whatever. You will be able to get around corner with an incredible ability. With the correct setup, you will have a very neutral car. No understeer, no oversteer (you will have to push your car in an incorrect way or incorrect trajectories).

With the correct adjusts, the front will be very incisive (don't know if you have other bits like M3 arms or anti-roll bars), very precise and you will be able to place the nose of the car where you want to.
For the rear of the car, it's not bouncy at all, the ground is correctly filtered. No problem with the clearance. I have 9.5" wide VMR with 245 Michelin PSS on them, no rub at all.

I would add the geometry you will put, will influence a lot the behaviour of your car. What I advise for the beginning is :
Camber front : -1*30'
Total toe in front : 0.8
Camber rear : -1*50'
Total toe in rear : 1.0
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      08-24-2015, 11:06 AM   #15
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Certainly no suspension expert here, but I've had TCK S/A coils for just over a year now. Had them installed along with rear subframe bushings, as you would expect they transformed the car. I like the way TCK takes what is a very good Koni shock/ strut and makes them better. I think they have Truechoice build their Konis to TCK specs. They come with some very good camber plates, never heard any noise out of mine. I went with suggested 400#/ 600# spring rates and at this point have no problems with the ride at all. Firm but controlled. TCK also uses the rear shocks that are adjusted from inside the trunk area instead of ones you have to remove to adjust. Just think its a great system for the money. But you really should talk to an expert like the folks at HPA if you want the "engineering" side of the story.
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      08-25-2015, 05:17 AM   #16
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What a rainy day yesterday ... But I managed to take some pics and mesure the ride height: 32,5cm front and rear

Regarding to the clearance, as you can see, one finger front and a half one rear.

Hope this will help you!
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      08-27-2015, 02:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
So the camber plates are pretty noisy? That's the big reason I don't have any yet. My roads are in really terrible shape and I can't tolerate something that is going to rattle and bang over every drop and bump and pothole. I'm also not interested in having to service them.

You mention fender to wheel center distances. I also noticed you have a 120d, and I am not familiar with its stock equipment. Did you have the M-sport suspension stock, or the non-sport? What was your stock ride height? What is it now after everything has settled completely?

Hard to compare handling between stock and a proper coil setup as stock is pretty poor. Even my current setup has me wanting properly matched dampers and spring rates, hence the decision.
Ok where do I begin.....
I have the ST-XTA coilovers and all I can say is they are superb. They don't break the bank and they perform very well on the track.

I got the E92 kit. They have slightly more aggressive spring rates than the E82. Since the E92 is heavier.

Having the Adjustable rebound is good... Though I'd rather have adjustable dampening. No complaints though. The V2 dampners come matched to the Spring rates, so they are optimal out of the box.

Posting pictures of ride height and clearances with coilovers is pointless. You can set the height and camber to your specification and that will determine clearances.

In conclusion I would recommend the XTA versions. Front linear club sport springs and progressive rears. They are easy to adjust, and perfect for dual duty use.
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      08-27-2015, 06:38 PM   #18
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If I were on a budget, TCKR SA would be my choice. It's far better than KW or ST V1, V2 or even the V3.

If you have $2200 to spend Ohlins R&T, is the best value at that price point.
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      08-27-2015, 07:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexResistance View Post
Ok where do I begin.....
I have the ST-XTA coilovers and all I can say is they are superb. They don't break the bank and they perform very well on the track.

I got the E92 kit. They have slightly more aggressive spring rates than the E82. Since the E92 is heavier.

Having the Adjustable rebound is good... Though I'd rather have adjustable dampening. No complaints though. The V2 dampners come matched to the Spring rates, so they are optimal out of the box.

Posting pictures of ride height and clearances with coilovers is pointless. You can set the height and camber to your specification and that will determine clearances.

In conclusion I would recommend the XTA versions. Front linear club sport springs and progressive rears. They are easy to adjust, and perfect for dual duty use.
Very much appreciate the comments. The reason I asked for height pictures was the XTA is lower at its max height adjustment than I am now even at partial compression, and I wanted to see where that would put me. I will look into the E92 kit to see what the rates are F/R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
If I were on a budget, TCKR SA would be my choice. It's far better than KW or ST V1, V2 or even the V3.

If you have $2200 to spend Ohlins R&T, is the best value at that price point.
Thanks Harold. Sent you a PM.
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      08-27-2015, 08:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is exactly what drives me crazy about mix and match springs and dampers.....can you elaborate on what part of your setup feels mismatched? Underdamped or springs too soft or...?

I'm doing some research for a fixed configuration matched spring and damper set with 10mm max drop from m-sport, and OEM+ type ride and handling for a 98% road driven /DD car. Was thinking the full BMW PE kit with dampers, springs, etc, but not many people with this setup. Also considering an attempt at matching swift springs and a damper. Would the B8 dampers be a better match to the swift springs in your opinion?
So I spoke with bilstien U.S. When researching options. They indicated the B8 to be the best matched damper for the swift spec-r springs. I'd say they do a pretty decent job at the track, and you have enough body roll to really feel what the car is doing. Personally I'm not an expert track driver so I was encouraged by multiple sources to not jump directly to a coil over. The progression is very beneficial imo.

On the track and street the setup I rock is night and day better than stock, but will definitely be going coils at some point next year

Also worth noting that the spec r springs will be a little stiffer for you since your car is lighter fyi
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      08-27-2015, 08:31 PM   #21
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TCK SA

TCKline user here. My choices were narrow due to xDrive. TCK is one of the few options for AWD BMWs.

My E91 drove like a Buick (no kidding) on OEM suspension. The feeling was floaty, imprecise, and generally uncontrolled. The Koni yellow-based TCK dampers with revised valve rates really transformed the handling from soccer-mom car to proficient track car.

I can't comment on the other options since I have no first-hand experience with them. If I were in your shoes I would consider the TCK or Ohlins. KWs strike me as being in a different user-group. No flames, simply my personal opinion.

The TCK camber plates are very slightly noisier than stock. I didn't notice them at all after a couple of days. They are not intrusive in any manner, other than giving a wider range of camber options that you will appreciate if you drive in a "spirited" manner.

Consider your intended use for the car. IMO, daily driving is fine on the OEM suspension, if rather Toyota Camry-like. If you drive with 'brio' or track your car, I consider TCK SA or Ohlins as entry-level dampers for this application.
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      08-27-2015, 11:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Very much appreciate the comments. The reason I asked for height pictures was the XTA is lower at its max height adjustment than I am now even at partial compression, and I wanted to see where that would put me. I will look into the E92 kit to see what the rates are F/R.



Thanks Harold. Sent you a PM.
Replied with details.

Feel free to quote me here if others have similar questions.
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