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      12-26-2019, 12:13 PM   #1
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Can someone tell me why this 1M has not sold?

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Been fascinated with the 1M market for a while so this one caught my eye. It's been on the lot 3 months, seems to be priced well for the mileage. What am I missing? Maybe 3 months isnt that long...

Why won't I sell?
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      12-26-2019, 12:59 PM   #2
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I have owned two 1Ms and was one of the original 1M owners.

Here is MY OPINION on why it hasn't sold.

It is being sold as a single owner, cared for 1M at a high price albeit lower than others that were sold by AEG or by the owners themselves in some auctions. It is still a high price for the car that looks like it is, and was not meticulously cared for. Once a car sits at a dealer for weeks, they sit outside where the sun beats and fades the paint and trim. They are test driven by salespeople that rev and drive them hard cold then let their customers rev the motor spooling the turbos to 110K RPM then kill the motor. So by mere fact of being at dealer, you are suspect of the care that was not given to this car.

The car is photographed dirty, with dirty wheels and grease or gunk on the shifter and steering wheel and even the tire pressure warning light further emphasizing that this car is not receiving the care it needs and deserves to ask top dollar collectible money. Looking at the CarFax history continues to reinforce my opinion that this car was not properly cared for. The first oil change shows to be at 2500 miles and only after the original owner got a flat and took it in for that repair. These cars were to get their first break in service at 1200 miles and it included a key differential fluid swap and for early production US cars, the transmission fluid also. The dealer is selling this as a 1 owner car but they are not the 1 owner, they are actually the second owner so we can't ask them for a receipt to show that you did the break-in service at 1200 miles. The differential fluid is not changed until 6500 miles and 3 years later according to carfax and there is no mention of transmission fluid at all in 8 years. Furthermore, it shows only one brake fluid change after 6 years and 7700 miles. It also appears to have almost 9 year old original coolant in the motor. This is bad. Again if you were the "original owner" we could ask for proof that the brake fluid was changed at the most every two years and coolant after the first 4 years, then every two years, but alas we can't.

Finally on a more subjective front ... the car is full loaded with NAV and this doesn't significantly add any more value or appeal. I for one automatically excluded loaded 1Ms like this as I felt that was not the proper way this car should be configured.

After 8 years of owning 1Ms and many Cars and Coffees, I have been approached by countless people that feel like me and have also told me they want a no NAV 1M. Luckily there are many more that love the tech and so few of these cars that they still sell but being loaded in this case is not necessarily that great a thing.

As they say, price overcomes all objections, but if they want to sell the car at this price, it needs to be cleaned up taken and kept indoors and and get the maintenance records from the original owner and mention that in the ad and get new pictures of it indoors, cleaned up with a picture of all the records. Based on the low mileage of the first oil change, my guess is that the original owner did not take great care of it but documentation would help.

Best wishes and Happy New Year

Last edited by nachob; 12-26-2019 at 09:12 PM.. Reason: I thought the OP was the selling dealer...changed to correct that!
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      12-26-2019, 03:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I have have owned two 1Ms and was one of the original 1M owners.

Here is MY OPINION on why it hasn't sold.

It is being sold as a single owner, cared for 1M at a high price albeit lower than others that were sold by AEG or by the owners themselves in some auctions. It is still a high price for the car that looks like it is, and was not meticulously cared for. Once a car sits at a dealer for weeks, they sit outside where the sun beats and fades the paint and trim. They are test driven by salespeople that rev them cold, drive the hard cold then let their customers rev the motor spooling the turbos to 110K RPM then kill the motor. So by mere fact of being at dealer, you are suspect of the care that was not given to this car.

The car is photographed dirty, with dirty wheels and grease or gunk on the shifter and steering wheel and even the tire pressure warning light further emphasizing that this car is not receiving the care it needs and deserves to ask top dollar collectible money. Looking at the CarFax history continues to reinforce my opinion that this car was not properly cared for. The first oil change shows to be at 2500 miles and only after the original owner got a flat and took it in for that repair. These cars were to get their first break in service at 1200 miles and it included a key differential fluid swap and for early production US cars, the transmission fluid also. You are selling this as a 1 owner car but you are not the 1 owner, you are actually the second owner so we can't ask you for a receipt to show that you did the break-in service at 1200 miles. The differential fluid is not changed until 6500 miles and 3 years later according to carfax and there is no mention of transmission fluid at all in 8 years. Furthermore, it shows only one brake fluid change after 6 years and 7700 miles. It also appears to have almost 9 year old original coolant in the motor. This is bad. Again if you were the "original owner" we could ask for proof that the brake fluid was changed at the most every two years and coolant after the first 4 years, then every two years, but alas we can't.

Finally on a more subjective front to help you understand this market place a little better... the car is full loaded with NAV and this is not significantly add any more value or appeal. I for one automatically excluded loaded 1Ms like this as I felt that was not the proper way this car should be configured.

After 8 years of owning 1Ms and many Cars and Coffees, I have been approached by countless people that feel like me and have also told me they want a no NAV 1M. Luckily there are many more that love the tech and so few of these cars that they still sell but just want to let you know that being loaded in this case is not necessarily that great a thing.

As they say, price overcomes all objections, but if you want to sell the car at this price, it needs to be cleaned up taken and kept indoors and and get the maintenance records from the original owner and mention that in your ad and get new pictures of it indoors, cleaned up with a picture of all the records. Based on the low mileage of the first oil change, my guess is that the original owner did not take great care of it but documentation would help.

Best wishes and Happy New Year
3000% agreed, what he said I'm a very detail oriented person and I noticed all those things you mentioned..it's sad because its such a great car, low mileage, but taken care of poorly. My car has 14k miles on it and it looks newer than most new cars.
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      12-26-2019, 06:55 PM   #4
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Seems like it's priced well, maybe location? Not sure Nav is a reason NOT to buy. I love my screen, plus the added options you get in the pkg. Personally I've seen really nice multiple owner cars and not so nice own owners...not saying this is the case. If I were shopping for one this would be a contender.
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      12-26-2019, 08:43 PM   #5
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If the shift knob is indicative of the care the rest of the car was given, it should be pretty obvious why it hasn't sold yet.
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      12-26-2019, 09:53 PM   #6
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I don't think it's uncommon for these to take a while to sell. However, given the low miles on this one, I would have expected it to be in better condition.
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      12-26-2019, 11:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 1&done View Post
Seems like it's priced well, maybe location? Not sure Nav is a reason NOT to buy. I love my screen, plus the added options you get in the pkg. Personally I've seen really nice multiple owner cars and not so nice own owners...not saying this is the case. If I were shopping for one this would be a contender.
Yeah seriously...highly optioned cars have ALWAYS sold better in the collector car market and nothing has changed...it's absurd to suggest otherwise.

Looks like a great buy. The 1M market is limited and appeals to a certain kind of buyer.

I'm sure it will sell when the right buyer is ready to jump on it. 3 months is not a long time...
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      12-27-2019, 03:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Yeah seriously...highly optioned cars have ALWAYS sold better in the collector car market and nothing has changed...it's absurd to suggest otherwise.

Looks like a great buy. The 1M market is limited and appeals to a certain kind of buyer.

I'm sure it will sell when the right buyer is ready to jump on it. 3 months is not a long time...
Call me that ‘absurd certain kind of buyer’, but i would pay more for a stripper (no-nav, manual seats). I,ll yield that we’ll likely remain a minority.
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      12-27-2019, 07:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeghie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Yeah seriously...highly optioned cars have ALWAYS sold better in the collector car market and nothing has changed...it's absurd to suggest otherwise.

Looks like a great buy. The 1M market is limited and appeals to a certain kind of buyer.

I'm sure it will sell when the right buyer is ready to jump on it. 3 months is not a long time...
Call me that 'absurd certain kind of buyer', but i would pay more for a stripper (no-nav, manual seats). I,ll yield that we'll likely remain a minority.
.

In ANY collector car setting a highly optioned car is always valued more and such is the case with the 1M as well just like it has been for 1000s of cars before..

If you love that; then great for you and people should buy whatever they want—- but it's absurd to read some people perpetuate the same untruth over and over again that low optioned cars are more desirable to most; they are most definitely not.
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      12-27-2019, 02:17 PM   #10
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Thanks to everyone for their insight...very helpful.

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      12-27-2019, 03:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eeghie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Yeah seriously...highly optioned cars have ALWAYS sold better in the collector car market and nothing has changed...it's absurd to suggest otherwise.

Looks like a great buy. The 1M market is limited and appeals to a certain kind of buyer.

I'm sure it will sell when the right buyer is ready to jump on it. 3 months is not a long time...
Call me that 'absurd certain kind of buyer', but i would pay more for a stripper (no-nav, manual seats). I,ll yield that we'll likely remain a minority.
.

In ANY collector car setting a highly optioned car is always valued more and such is the case with the 1M as well just like it has been for 1000s of cars before..

If you love that; then great for you and people should buy whatever they want—- but it's absurd to read some people perpetuate the same untruth over and over again that low optioned cars are more desirable to most; they are most definitely not.
Yes so please stop with the untruth yourself. I bought two 1Ms and ignored loaded ones both new and used. You are beyond redemption but for the rest of you my point was that dealers think that loaded is the only and preferred configuration. In the case of the 1M there are so few that it doesn't make a that big a difference because there are others I know that also don't want the nav and I drive in a 1M. I am proof of 10s continuous lies because I immediately discount Sports cars and sports sedans that are loaded. That was my opinion but the fact is that I immediately discounted loaded 1Ms twice thereby who is lying?
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      12-27-2019, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eeghie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Yeah seriously...highly optioned cars have ALWAYS sold better in the collector car market and nothing has changed...it's absurd to suggest otherwise.

Looks like a great buy. The 1M market is limited and appeals to a certain kind of buyer.

I'm sure it will sell when the right buyer is ready to jump on it. 3 months is not a long time...
Call me that 'absurd certain kind of buyer', but i would pay more for a stripper (no-nav, manual seats). I,ll yield that we'll likely remain a minority.
.

In ANY collector car setting a highly optioned car is always valued more and such is the case with the 1M as well just like it has been for 1000s of cars before..

If you love that; then great for you and people should buy whatever they want—- but it's absurd to read some people perpetuate the same untruth over and over again that low optioned cars are more desirable to most; they are most definitely not.
Yes so please stop with the untruth yourself. I bought two 1Ms and ignored loaded ones both new and used. You are beyond redemption but for the rest of you my point was that dealers think that loaded is the only and preferred configuration. In the case of the 1M there are so few that it doesn't make a that big a difference because there are others I know that also don't want the nav and I drive in a 1M. I am proof of 10s continuous lies because I immediately discount Sports cars and sports sedans that are loaded. That was my opinion but the fact is that I immediately discounted loaded 1Ms twice thereby who is lying?
Mildly comical. Doesn't matter the market consists of much more than just "you". You do know that right? You are a small minority. A small minority of people ordered no-tech cars and a small minority still want them.

The collector car market has spanned decades and your shallow defense doesn't change those facts about what people want and don't want. The fact is that highly optioned cars are the preference across all marques and models.

Doesn't matter if you've bought 1 or 14. Perhaps if you had more vision & focus you'd have held onto the first one...
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      12-27-2019, 04:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Mildly comical. Doesn't matter the market consists of much more than just "you". You do know that right? You are a small minority. A small minority of people ordered no-Nav cars and a small minority still want them.

The collector car market has spanned decades and your shallow defense doesn't change those facts about what people want and don't want. The fact is that highly optioned cars are the preference across all marquess and models.

Doesn't matter if you've bought 1 or 14. Perhaps if you had more vision & focus you'd have held onto the first one...
Yeah, I have no idea how nav will or won't affect future 1M values, although driving enthusiast collector cars are occasionally more desirable without some options, like sunroofs and auto transmissions.

Anecdotally, both me (135i) and my friend (1M) didn't want cars with nav, because of the big cave in the dash, and I see a lot of other E82 users say the same thing around here. Granted, the fold-down version of the nav in earlier E82s would have maybe been a bit more tolerable. If I were shopping for a 1M today, no nav would be near the top of my list of (non-)options to look for, maybe even over color.

Since the 1M is such a low volume car, it would probably be interesting to start a poll about the subject in this forum, since it may actually give us a real hint as to the preference of the average 1M owner.
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      12-27-2019, 05:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Mildly comical. Doesn't matter the market consists of much more than just "you". You do know that right? You are a small minority. A small minority of people ordered no-Nav cars and a small minority still want them.

The collector car market has spanned decades and your shallow defense doesn't change those facts about what people want and don't want. The fact is that highly optioned cars are the preference across all marquess and models.

Doesn't matter if you've bought 1 or 14. Perhaps if you had more vision & focus you'd have held onto the first one...
Yeah, I have no idea how nav will or won't affect future 1M values, although driving enthusiast collector cars are occasionally more desirable without some options, like sunroofs and auto transmissions.

Anecdotally, both me (135i) and my friend (1M) didn't want cars with nav, because of the big cave in the dash, and I see a lot of other E82 users say the same thing around here. Granted, the fold-down version of the nav in earlier E82s would have maybe been a bit more tolerable. If I were shopping for a 1M today, no nav would be near the top of my list of (non-)options to look for, maybe even over color.

Since the 1M is such a low volume car, it would probably be interesting to start a poll about the subject in this forum, since it may actually give us a real hint as to the preference of the average 1M owner.
Most owners aren't as uptight or as insecure as NachoB.

I personally don't care. Peeps should get whatever they want...

Love the Nav screen. Settings are sooooo much easier and more aesthetically pleasing rather than the terrible radio method to adjust things. Nav screens have a practical necessity!! Not even about the actual Nav.
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      12-27-2019, 06:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Most owners aren't as uptight or as insecure as NachoB.

I personally don't care. Peeps should get whatever they want...

Love the Nav screen. Settings are sooooo much easier and more aesthetically pleasing rather than the terrible radio method to adjust things. Nav screens have a practical necessity!! Not even about the actual Nav.
Yeah, I can’t think of anything that I’d ever need to adjust, outside of when I first got the car. Either way, if the screen was down in the console stack, rather than up on the dash, I’d probably be fine with it.
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      12-27-2019, 08:43 PM   #16
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I think the flood of M2/M2C and soon M2 CS is having an effect on the 1M market. Heck even the Supra. There are quite a few alternatives available.

I am also a fan of no Nav manual seats. Mine has Nav but I wasn't going to pass since service records, owner, and price were right. Many enthusiasts want the lightest no frill, stripper spec they can get when it comes to performance cars. Just have a look at the premium Porsche 911 owners place on sunroof delete cars for 964/993.
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      12-28-2019, 03:04 AM   #17
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I wouldn't judge the car without going down to the dealership and actually looking at it. Most dealers don't give a rat's ass about a niche car like a 1M, so the car could be much better than it looks in pictures and they might have had some high school kid car washer take the pictures.

I'm not a Nav fan with this car, and I already own one so I'm not exactly looking for another one. But if I was looking and if it wasn't that far away, I'd certainly not be deterred by anything I've read or seen here before I laid my own eyeballs on it.

It's not like these things are growing on trees, if you want one.

Addendum: Most car dealers, especially new car dealers, over-price their used car inventories. This car is probably no exception, and you won't know how much they would actually sell it for until you were to negotiate with them. Many, perhaps most, buyers finance expensive cars and for many of them the important number is the monthly payment, not the total sales price. Of course, the dealers love this because they can both inflate the prices and make even more money on the financing than they do on the cars they sell. It's no wonder why the largest office a car buyer is likely to visit in the dealership, is the office of the F&I guy.
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      12-29-2019, 08:23 AM   #18
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I think the flood of M2/M2C and soon M2 CS is having an effect on the 1M market. Heck even the Supra. There are quite a few alternatives available.

I am also a fan of no Nav manual seats. Mine has Nav but I wasn't going to pass since service records, owner, and price were right. Many enthusiasts want the lightest no frill, stripper spec they can get when it comes to performance cars. Just have a look at the premium Porsche 911 owners place on sunroof delete cars for 964/993.
Sunroof delete is fine; it's part of the structure of a car. Glad that NO 1Ms came with a sunroof.

Worrying about or putting emphasis on frankly minor interior features is pretty foolish though...
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      12-29-2019, 12:39 PM   #19
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1M is a stripped down car, nav or no nav. There really is no way to ruin a 1M. No sunroof, no DCT, no luxury options, no horrendous 20” wheels, only 3 colors. Part of what makes it special, IMHO. This car probably has a story that is not coming through in the pics and the dealer may not be representing the car properly, hard to know without seeing it in person.
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      12-29-2019, 07:08 PM   #20
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Considering I plan to own my 1M for a long time, a non-NAV car was a must for me. My wife has a 2017 MDX and the NAV on that already feels ancient. i think part of the appeal, to me, about the 1M was the lack of features to complicate long term ownership or feel outdated. I would love an E90/E92 M3 without Nav but that is basically a unicorn...

Even at 6'3", I wanted power seats. I've heard the manual seats improve headroom but I sat in a manual seat car and couldn't tell a difference. In full disclosure, I didn't spend that much time evaluating the seating situation.
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      12-31-2019, 07:33 AM   #21
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Most owners aren't as uptight or as insecure as NachoB.
Ouch.
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      12-31-2019, 03:19 PM   #22
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My opinion: 1M (fully loaded) is slightly ruined as electric seats are heavier and too high regardless of how tall you are you feel like you are sitting on it rather than in it. The nav ruins the dash and is dated looking already, need I go on. So it's about purpose for me, my phone is connected to the car and I'm happy with just that. The whole point of the 1M was small, lightweight, drivers car. I previously had a m6 fully loaded and wouldn't have it any other way but it was an M6 not a 1M.

No one is right but nacho knows his sh*t and a car such as the 1M is more sought after as a stripper version all day long. When it was new they mainly got spec'd up by amateurs not understanding the true essence of the project.

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