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View Poll Results: Should Trump and Putin's meeting be made public?
Yes - We have the right to know 16 43.24%
No - We do not have the right or the need to know 12 32.43%
Sort of - Give the details to Congress and let them decide what should be public. 9 24.32%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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      07-18-2018, 12:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Do we deserve to know everything that was said? No. Does Congress? Probably.

Do we deserve to know what was said around these claimed military/defense agreements? Absolutely.

"The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is ready for practical implementation of the agreements reached between Russian President Vladimir Putin and US President Donald Trump in the sphere of international security achieved at the Helsinki summit," --Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov
Wait, what?! Putin and Trump reached a military agreement on what? This seems like an important thing for folks on our side to know. Finding this out from a Russian General is maybe not the best.
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      07-18-2018, 12:05 PM   #24
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Wait, what?! Putin and Trump reached a military agreement on what? This seems like an important thing for folks on our side to know. Finding this out from a Russian General is maybe not the best.
Lavrovs face said it all. That man has never been so fucking deliriously happy!
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How would you know this? Did mommy catch you jerking off to some Big Foot porn ?
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      07-18-2018, 12:25 PM   #25
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Lavrovs face said it all. That man has never been so fucking deliriously happy!
Happier than this even? I mean, he was pretty damn happy on this day...

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      07-18-2018, 12:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
The bigger question is, are we still a representative republic? If the answer is yes, then Trump has to tell us, as his constituents, what was discussed. The guy trump isn't a dictator or a king.
That is absolute BS. There are many things that the general public doesn't know and doesn't need to know or have a right to know. I knew about the F-117 stealth fighter long before the American public did. I helped plan Operation Just Cause for Panama and we used the Nighthawks. Most people in the military didn't know we had the Nighthawk and didn't know about the Panama invasion - they didn't need to know and neither did the general public. That's just an example of how "we need to know because we are a representative republic" is just total BS.
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      07-18-2018, 01:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Wait, what?! Putin and Trump reached a military agreement on what? This seems like an important thing for folks on our side to know. Finding this out from a Russian General is maybe not the best.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/polit...nts/index.html
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      07-18-2018, 01:30 PM   #28
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Happier than this even? I mean, he was pretty damn happy on this day...

That's his super happy face. That's nothing compared to the "they invented Viagra" face he did after Helsinki!
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      07-18-2018, 01:37 PM   #29
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Oh good grief. OK, Mr. President, the ball is in your court. The world eagerly awaits your confirmation or denial that we have a new military strategy.
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      07-18-2018, 01:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
That is absolute BS. There are many things that the general public doesn't know and doesn't need to know or have a right to know. I knew about the F-117 stealth fighter long before the American public did. I helped plan Operation Just Cause for Panama and we used the Nighthawks. Most people in the military didn't know we had the Nighthawk and didn't know about the Panama invasion - they didn't need to know and neither did the general public. That's just an example of how "we need to know because we are a representative republic" is just total BS.
Well said!
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      07-18-2018, 02:42 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
That is absolute BS. There are many things that the general public doesn't know and doesn't need to know or have a right to know. I knew about the F-117 stealth fighter long before the American public did. I helped plan Operation Just Cause for Panama and we used the Nighthawks. Most people in the military didn't know we had the Nighthawk and didn't know about the Panama invasion - they didn't need to know and neither did the general public. That's just an example of how "we need to know because we are a representative republic" is just total BS.
Fair enough. But on the flip side, if Trump sold American secrets, or if Trump promised that Putin will be allowed to continue meddling in US elections so long as Trump wins, shouldn't the public have the right to know that?

See, you're assuming that the nature of the talks was a matter of, say, national security (using your F-117 example). I can just as much, with the same confidence, assume that the nature of the talks was a concerted attempt by the US President to undermine the US democratic process for personal gain (likely would be treasonous).

So the question then is: how do we know whether the nature of the talks justified secrecy? This is where the other branches of the government steps in, and this is also where the President will likely invoke executive privilege.

Frankly, I don't see the public's desire to know getting to the point where the Supreme Court has to make a ruling on the breadth of executive privilege; I think much of the public (i.e. the court of public opinion) already believes that Trump pretty much groveled to Putin behind closed doors (since one would think his press conference was a direct reflection and summary of their discussion). If Trump wants to change that narrative, it's up to him to get third person confirmation on what was discussed.
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      07-18-2018, 02:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Fair enough. But on the flip side, if Trump sold American secrets, or if Trump promised that Putin will be allowed to continue meddling in US elections so long as Trump wins, shouldn't the public have the right to know that?

See, you're assuming that the nature of the talks was a matter of, say, national security (using your F-117 example). I can just as much, with the same confidence, assume that the nature of the talks was a concerted attempt by the US President to undermine the US democratic process for personal gain (likely would be treasonous).

So the question then is: how do we know whether the nature of the talks justified secrecy? This is where the other branches of the government steps in, and this is also where the President will likely invoke executive privilege.

Frankly, I don't see the public's desire to know getting to the point where the Supreme Court has to make a ruling on the breadth of executive privilege; I think much of the public (i.e. the court of public opinion) already believes that Trump pretty much groveled to Putin behind closed doors (since one would think his press conference was a direct reflection and summary of their discussion). If Trump wants to change that narrative, it's up to him to get third person confirmation on what was discussed.
Was there the hue and cry when this occurred? Actual damage. Actual advances by our rivals.

https://capitalresearch.org/article/...le-technology/
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      07-18-2018, 02:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Fair enough. But on the flip side, if Trump sold American secrets, or if Trump promised that Putin will be allowed to continue meddling in US elections so long as Trump wins, shouldn't the public have the right to know that?

See, you're assuming that the nature of the talks was a matter of, say, national security (using your F-117 example). I can just as much, with the same confidence, assume that the nature of the talks was a concerted attempt by the US President to undermine the US democratic process for personal gain.

So the question then is: how do we know whether the nature of the talks justified secrecy? This is where the other branches of the government steps in, and this is also where the President will likely invoke executive privilege.

Frankly, I don't see the public's desire to know getting to the point where the Supreme Court has to make a ruling on the breadth of executive privilege; I think much of the public (i.e. the court of public opinion) already believes that Trump pretty much groveled to Putin behind closed doors (since one would think his press conference was a direct reflection and summary of their discussion). If Trump wants to change that narrative, it's up to him to get third person confirmation on what was discussed.
the problem with assuming, is it is just that, assuming.

there is no evidence that Trump has or will ever sell secrets or threaten national security, or even directly undermine the US.

if anything was actually agreed upon that would deal with national security, or going to war, or anything that affects you, there are checks and balances in place to assure us that it does not actually happen.

So, you either trust the government as a whole, or you dont. it doesnt really matter if you trust Trump or not.
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      07-18-2018, 02:58 PM   #34
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Was there the hue and cry when this occurred? Actual damage. Actual advances by our rivals.

https://capitalresearch.org/article/...le-technology/
That's an excellent question! Why all the focus on a BJ and a blue dress if this sh*t was going down?
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      07-18-2018, 03:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Wait, what?! Putin and Trump reached a military agreement on what? This seems like an important thing for folks on our side to know. Finding this out from a Russian General is maybe not the best.
Lavrovs face said it all. That man has never been so fucking deliriously happy!
Even with those fabulous Moscow prostitutes?
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      07-18-2018, 04:44 PM   #36
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That's an excellent question! Why all the focus on a BJ and a blue dress if this sh*t was going down?
It was actively suppressed. Quite a lot of it was uncovered after the fact.
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      07-18-2018, 04:59 PM   #37
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It was actively suppressed. Quite a lot of it was uncovered after the fact.
Like when? You had Republicans in control of the House and Senate from 1995 to 2007. Years after Clinton left. I guess no one cared to look in the rear view mirror and take the issue up? Seems like a pretty important one, selling our military secrets to China for campaign contributions.
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      07-18-2018, 06:41 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
That is absolute BS. There are many things that the general public doesn't know and doesn't need to know or have a right to know. I knew about the F-117 stealth fighter long before the American public did. I helped plan Operation Just Cause for Panama and we used the Nighthawks. Most people in the military didn't know we had the Nighthawk and didn't know about the Panama invasion - they didn't need to know and neither did the general public. That's just an example of how "we need to know because we are a representative republic" is just total BS.
Classified fighter programs are a different thing than one leader talking to another.
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      07-18-2018, 07:10 PM   #39
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Classified fighter programs are a different thing than one leader talking to another.
Not in my book. First, how is Operation Just Cause a classified fighter program? Second, political leaders discuss information that is not for public consumption all the time.
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      07-18-2018, 07:17 PM   #40
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Like when? You had Republicans in control of the House and Senate from 1995 to 2007. Years after Clinton left. I guess no one cared to look in the rear view mirror and take the issue up? Seems like a pretty important one, selling our military secrets to China for campaign contributions.
It's a good read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_U...ce_controversy
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      07-18-2018, 08:02 PM   #41
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Not in my book. First, how is Operation Just Cause a classified fighter program? Second, political leaders discuss information that is not for public consumption all the time.
Way to move the goal posts komrade. Too bad you left your integrity in the air farce.
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      07-18-2018, 08:21 PM   #42
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Way to move the goal posts komrade. Too bad you left your integrity in the air farce.
I didn't move any goal posts and I am no komrade. I still have all of my integrity and it is higher than yours by a long shot. Thank you.
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      07-18-2018, 08:22 PM   #43
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Way to move the goal posts komrade. Too bad you left your integrity in the air farce.
Each time I think you've reached rock bottom in your depravity you manage to plumb the depths even deeper.

He's a combat veteran with 20 years of service to OUR country.
You're despicable.
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      07-18-2018, 09:46 PM   #44
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