135i vs 1M Comparison for Members

[cooler2442]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I will take a BMW M tuned car with full warranty over an aftermarket tuned with no warranty any day of the week. There is no way you can get the full 1M package (suspension, body, etc.) on a 135 for less then the cost of the 1M.

You aren't going to have a full warranty on a tuned 1M

The tunes coming out for the 1M are the same type of tunes already out for the N54, there is no warranty difference. Some are undetectable so u wouldn't have to worry about warranty on either one.

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by CaptSlow

Got mine in Palm Beach. Supposedly they still have allocations, if you are interested. The 135 was sold privately.

Have seen many 135's with M badges, though. Either way, I would stick a DINAN badge instead if you meet the required upgrades from the tuner. Never liked the idea of "M-Sport." It either is or isn't an M.

Nah it would be foolish for me to acquire a 1M after already modifying my N54 135i. Besides, I'd personally pick up a slightly used Z06 or new LS3 Vette if I was in the market for a new car for the same money.

I haven't seen many, but the next time I do, I'm going to ask them why they don't put a Type R badge on it as well to try to make it like a special edition?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

What he is saying guys is that for existing 135i owners it is not a huge jump to get 1M performance (engine and suspension) without buying a 1M....pretty much everything you see done to the 1M has been done to their shop 135i before the 1M ever came about (M3 susp bits, LSD, better cooling, 1er specific springs, etc, etc...yes even widebody has been done by others-at least in the front). Will the 1M ultimately be better given the same upgrades? YES...but only by a little bit due to the stock widebody and very slightly different engine/drivetrain changes (piston rings and clutch for example). But it will not blow a tuned 135i out of the water......

You took the words right out of my mouth!

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

You took the words right out of my mouth!

If your 135 (not that familiar with your car) is not gutted and is not running larger turbos I would be curious to see how it compares to a laptime of a stock 1M on the same track. I know you have stated your 135 as it sits now is better than your 1M and unless you did serious weight reduction or turbo upgrades I think the times would be very close. Have you planed on doing any tests like this? Would love to see the result and get a better understanding as to why you feel that way,

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by fastauto

If your 135 (not that familiar with your car) is not gutted and is not running larger turbos I would be curious to see how it compares to a laptime of a stock 1M on the same track. I know you have stated your 135 as it sits now is better than your 1M and unless you did serious weight reduction or turbo upgrades I think the times would be very close. Have you planed on doing any tests like this? Would love to see the result and get a better understanding as to why you feel that way,

I think there is a lot of misconception that the stock 1M is the pinnacle of perfection. Far from it. The same suspension Harold is running on his 135 would improve the handling on the 1M also.

Same goes for the brakes (brake late = faster track times)

Same goes for the intercooler (lower IAT = lower heat related losses)

Same goes for the intake

Same goes for the tune

Same goes for the downpipes

Now mod for mod the 1M comes out ahead thanks to the widebody, rings, etc. But those alone are not enough to compensate for the other mods he is running. Harold's car has got to be in the 400+ hp range, and that's a significant advantage.

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by MteK

I think there is a lot of misconception that the stock 1M is the pinnacle of perfection. Far from it. The same suspension Harold is running on his 135 would improve the handling on the 1M also.

Same goes for the brakes (brake late = faster track times)

Same goes for the intercooler (lower IAT = lower heat related losses)

Same goes for the intake

Same goes for the tune

Same goes for the downpipes

Now mod for mod the 1M comes out ahead thanks to the widebody, rings, etc. But those alone are not enough to compensate for the other mods he is running. Harold's car has got to be in the 400+ hp range, and that's a significant advantage.

i fail to see your logic. a lot of the mods he did to his car are good ones however those are areas that BMW has also added improvement over the 135 when making the 1M. i dont doubt that his 135 puts down more power but around a track i think it would be very close. i am not about to get into a pissing match but i think the ability to run larger rubber on the car paired with the wider track would make up for the extra horsepower around the track. the rest is the same. good brakes vs. good brakes. lsd vs. lsd. factory tune vs. aftermarket tune, very good aftermarket suspension vs. good factory suspension. all i am saying is take the two cars, run the same street rubber and i think you will see similar lap times (unless the 135 is gutted).

[Lambobimmer]

Originally Posted by CaptSlow

True, mods on a 135 will make a superior car. I was refering to STOCK vehicles only. It is up to each driver to determine which investment is the better option for them. I am only trying to give a sense of stock 135 to stock 1M.

135i with N54

$800 Tune
$1,500 Suspension
$600 Downpipes
$900 FMIC

$3,800

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by lamboworld

135i with N54

$800 Tune
$1,500 Suspension
$600 Downpipes
$900 FMIC

$3,800

LSD?
Wider Wheels/Track?
Upgraded Brakes?
LWFW?

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Nah it would be foolish for me to acquire a 1M after already modifying my N54 135i. Besides, I'd personally pick up a slightly used Z06 or new LS3 Vette if I was in the market for a new car for the same money.

I haven't seen many, but the next time I do, I'm going to ask them why they don't put a Type R badge on it as well to try to make it like a special edition?

Vette? Eh, have you actually sat on the inside of a vette? Lets just say it is a little "different" than German quality. Even the newer vettes, while better historically, leave a lot to be desired. Maybe if you want a track rat to gut!

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by fastauto

LSD?
Wider Wheels/Track?
Upgraded Brakes?
LWFW?

Quaife dif 5k
Brakes 4k
Wheels/Tires 4k
Plus above post items

Total 17k, getting pretty close to the 1M price wise!

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Quaife dif 5k
Brakes 4k
Wheels/Tires 4k
Plus above post items

Total 17k, getting pretty close to the 1M price wise!

exactly. please also note that is not including the install of the parts. i could instal this crap myself and i sure most people could but you do have to factor it in. this also, is not including the road presence that the wide body has. this year they changed the price on the 135 and as a result, the 1M is clearly the better choice given the additional cost if someone was currently in the market looking for a car. i do honestly think though, that if i did have a 135 nicely setup 135, i would not sell it for a 1M. then again, who knows. i think it would be a really tough call and depended on how dedicated i was to that 1 series car. it would be a tough call.

[clived]

It also doesn't include a warranty....

[JimBilly]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Stock to stock your statement may be true. However, with bolt-on mods and M3 bits, the 135i will out pace its M brother on both the straights and in the turns. We have both cars, the M is fun to drive out of the box, but if you want a rush the 135i still gets my pick at the end of the day.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532939

This seems like a silly statement to me. Of course a a stock 1M has higher performance than a stock 135i. And of course a highly modified 135i can be faster than a 1M. Your 135i has coilovers, upgraded wheels, tires, M3 suspension, turbo-back exhaust, limited slip, tune, big brakes, carbon fiber to reduce weight, intake, intercooler, etc etc. How much would it cost to upgrade a stock 135i to make it identical to your 135i? I bet $20k including labor.

Many cars that are average performing cars can be made can be made faster by pouring money and mods into the car. Hell, just about any car can even be converted into a no compromise race car.

I think your 135i looks great and I'm sure it is an awesome performer. If I already had a 135 and was planning to keep it, I would mod it too.

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Vette? Eh, have you actually sat on the inside of a vette? Lets just say it is a little "different" than German quality. Even the newer vettes, while better historically, leave a lot to be desired. Maybe if you want a track rat to gut!

Yes I have driven them and admire their performance capabilities considering their price tag. Please tell me, what is there to be desired? A LS7 Vette demolishes a 1M in every performance category all while still getting 28-30mpg on the highway. Sorry, but I am NOT a BMW brown noser.

[Kurt_OH]

I don't have a 135 of any type, and if I did, I doubt seriously whether I'd see the value in trading for a 1M.

But THAT's NOT WHAT HP AUTOWERKS said. If that's what they meant, then THEY can say it. As it stands, their post is just that their 135i is faster than a 1M.

To that I say BFD. Any POS jammed with enough money and enough parts could put up specs on a track, but would you really rather have it as your street car? Would you really rather buy a brand new 135i and then pour 2x or 3x the 135i to 1M incremental $$$ into it, to have THAT?

My beef isn't at ALL with HP's achievements or products; if they have good products they SHOULD talk about them. But to compare to a stock car that is still under warranty and is still reliable and reasonably comfortable to drive, vs their track car is insulting and disingenuous. Further, it is just as likely to dissuade potential customers as encourage them.

I'm not sure the whole "It costs more and voids your warranty, but it's faster" is such a great argument though. Maybe that's why it's not part of the discussion?

[JimBilly]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Yes I have driven them and admire their performance capabilities considering their price tag. Please tell me, what is there to be desired? A LS7 Vette demolishes a 1M in every performance category all while still getting 28-30mpg on the highway. Sorry, but I am NOT a BMW brown noser.

I used to have a 2008 Corvette Z06. It was an incredible performer with 505 hp at 3200 lbs. There are not many cars out there that are faster.

However, I sold it after a year for a couple of reasons. First, it was not nearly as fun to drive as the Evo that I had before I got the Vette. I'm a sucker for steering feel and responsiveness and the Vette was a bit numb in those areas. I have an older Miata and test drove a 135i and both of those have better steering response and feel more "tossable." Also, I like a more upright seating position for a street car. I still miss the Evo but don't really miss the Vette.

A used Z06 can be had for the price of a new 1M. It just depends on what you want in a car. For me, I prefer the 1M.

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Yes I have driven them and admire their performance capabilities considering their price tag. Please tell me, what is there to be desired? A LS7 Vette demolishes a 1M in every performance category all while still getting 28-30mpg on the highway. Sorry, but I am NOT a BMW brown noser.

Build quality, build quality, build quality!!! The interior of vettes are rubbish, IMO. The seats are awful, interior feels about as cheap as you can get. Go check out a vette with say 40k on the clock. Doors cluncky, seals breaking down, interior falling apart. Compare that to any german build. Not arguing the peformance merits. GM powertrains are bullet proof and easy to repair and upgrade.

Interestingly, the 1M and C6 coupe (closet priced competitor comparatively equipped) have identical times around Hockenheim. The Grand sport is 1 sec faster but is a good 5-10k more new.

And 28-30 mpg is much higher than the manufacturer estimate!

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by JimBilly

I used to have a 2008 Corvette Z06. It was an incredible performer with 505 hp at 3200 lbs. There are not many cars out there that are faster.

However, I sold it after a year for a couple of reasons. First, it was not nearly as fun to drive as the Evo that I had before I got the Vette. I'm a sucker for steering feel and responsiveness and the Vette was a bit numb in those areas. I have an older Miata and test drove a 135i and both of those have better steering response and feel more "tossable." Also, I like a more upright seating position for a street car. I still miss the Evo but don't really miss the Vette.

A used Z06 can be had for the price of a new 1M. It just depends on what you want in a car. For me, I prefer the 1M.

I miss my Evo too. I would not be in this 135i if my Evo wasn't stolen.

[biggles]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Quaife dif 5k
Brakes 4k
Wheels/Tires 4k
Plus above post items

Total 17k, getting pretty close to the 1M price wise!

Exactly what I was trying to say, and for that money would you rather have a proper BMW M developed car, or a 135 with lots of aftermarket bits thrown at it? You may make the 135 quicker in a straight line or on a racetrack, but how relevant is that to 95% of people who want a well built factory developed performance car that also has a warranty?

I fly planes for a living, my plane isn't designed to go supersonic.......it would if I pushed it but it would soon break as it wasn't designed to do so. If I wanted to go supersonic I'd fly a supersonic plane......you know what I'm saying!

[CaptSlow]

The whole point of this post was to share STOCK to STOCK impressions of the cars. Has anyone else moved from a stock 135 to a 1M, and what is their opinion for those who are interested in the 1M but have been unable to test drive one before ordering?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by fastauto

If your 135 (not that familiar with your car) is not gutted and is not running larger turbos I would be curious to see how it compares to a laptime of a stock 1M on the same track. I know you have stated your 135 as it sits now is better than your 1M and unless you did serious weight reduction or turbo upgrades I think the times would be very close. Have you planed on doing any tests like this? Would love to see the result and get a better understanding as to why you feel that way,

The 135i is a street car. No larger turbos and not gutted. The intake still stock!

Most the development on the car is in its suspension. It's the same suspension package we ran in our Redline Time Attack 335i.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423150

It's our version of the 1M.

Consider the 1M being 60 hp and 50 ft/lb shy on power and on stock suspension, it's going to be slower.

Originally Posted by rad doc

Quaife dif 5k
Brakes 4k
Wheels/Tires 4k
Plus above post items

Total 17k, getting pretty close to the 1M price wise!

Those prices seem high, did you round up on everything?

Originally Posted by fastauto

LSD?
Wider Wheels/Track?
Upgraded Brakes?
LWFW?

To keep the playing field level, perhaps we should start with a 135i N54 instead of the N55. Parts are currently a lot more expensive on the 135i N55 DCT.

LSD - ~$1299-2588 depends on what you get
Wider wheels - ~$1200
Brakes - This one can be tossed out as the oem 135i brakes are actually good enough for a few good hot laps.
LWFW - ~$800

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by CaptSlow

The whole point of this post was to share STOCK to STOCK impressions of the cars. Has anyone else moved from a stock 135 to a 1M, and what is their opinion for those who are interested in the 1M but have been unable to test drive one before ordering?

Then your original post is almost pointless OF COURSE the 1M is going to be faster (a full 35hp/crank..and nearly 60whp if you go by the posted dyno's of some 1m's) and of course it is going to handle better with the M3 suspension installed on it. What did you expect us to discuss? That would have been a very, very short thread or a long one filled with "cool" and "thanks for the writeup".....